M4 tolls where the limit is 50 NIP - Safety Camera Unit - Wales

[coot]

I received a Notice of Intended Prosecution on or around October which was addressed to my father (registered keeper). He filled it in with my details and then when the new form came back I filled it in and sent it back.

 

Next, I receive in December a letter stating that I had not sent the form back. I called them and they confirmed that it was a computer error and that they had received my response and that they would be replying next week.

 

Early January, I now receive another Notice of Intended Prosecution form. I call them, they apologise and say it was an error. They confirm I have sent them back the necessary paperwork.

 

Today, I receive ANOTHER letter to say that they haven't received the NIP form! I shall call them later but this is getting ridiculous. Has anybody had any similar issues with the Safety Camera Unit in Wales?

[crem]

Stop doing things only by phone and start getting some of this information in writing.

If it's not in writing, then it can't be presented to a court if it gets that far.

If you ring them again today, insist that you receive an email confirmation of whatever transpires in the conversation.

I would also put a new letter into them detailing the entire timeline.

[honeybee13]

Hi there. To echo Crem's advice, as a friend of ours says, 'if it isn't in writing, it didn't happen'.

 

I hope you manage to sort this.

 

My best, HB

[coot]

Thanks, I'll get onto writing a letter to them.

 

Regards... Karl

[nicolawelch]

Did you get a ticket on the approach to the toll booths entering Wales by any chance?

[david1605red]

It would be interesting to know when the alleged speeding offence took place.

If it was, say, on the 20th September, that means they have until 21st March to lay the information before a Court.

Assuming that your latest attempt to send them the completed S172 request succeeds, they should send you a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty, giving you 28 days to respond.

Given the incompetence shown so far, you could easily find that the 28-day deadline extends past the last date for them to lay information, in which case you just don't respond and don't contact them at all, and they'll be out of time to bring a prosecution.

[dw190]

As has been said,

having it in writing and having a copy is a must.

What was the date of the alleged offence and the date of the last NiP?

Playing your cards right and sending it back by SP delivery at the right time could see a time out.

[coot]

Off the top of my head, the offence was 19th sep and the last nip was 10th feb.

Yes, the offence took place before the M4 tolls where the limit is 50.

[dw190]

The date of the alleged offence should be on the last NiP you received.

If it is the 19 September then March the 19 is the first date past the 6 months.

If you still have it (Nip) complete it and send it back by Royal Mail Special Delivery.

They should receive it by Monday the 21 Feb and send you a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty (Unless you have more than 8pts on your licence).

This is assuming you only exceeded the limit by a small amount and not like 80 in a 50.

The Conditional offer should give you 28 days to accept or go to Court.

Those 28 days take you past the magic date of the 29 March after which they cannot lay an information.

[coot]

Damn, I had called them on the 15th to chase up again and I received the conditional offer today, dated 17th February.

Edited February 22, 2011 by coot
date wrong

[Tony P]

Why?

You were advised by two respected posters on 14th to stop calling them but to put things in writing.

Each unto his own, I suppose.

[dw190]

I give up.

 

You had an easy get out if you had followed the advice given.

 

You have prompted them to get it out in time to lay the info within the timescale..

[coot]

Actually, that's not true.

I was advised to get email confirmation from them whilst talking over the phone, which I did.

All other replies came several days after this.

Again, read my last message, unfortunately, your advice came days later.

[dw190]

If the alleged offence was the 19 September (I would double check this date) there is still a possibility of them missing the deadline risky I know.

Was the Conditional Offer not damaged in the course of the post enough to cause you to return it and request another?

[nicolawelch]

Hi Coot.

Have you read the Statutory Instrument which defines the extent of the 50mph limit,

If my memory serves me right, it is 800 metres east of the overhead footbridge (dont know its name), and 200 metres west of it.

That means that the 400 meters directly before you reach the toll booths are in a 70 mph zone.

This means that if the speed gun operator was standing on the footbridge and zapped you head on, you were in the 50 zone.

If he zapped you from behind, you may have travelled out of the 50 zone and back into the 70.

At least that was the case when I got caught out there.

 if you cant get a photo or the operators statement of exactly where in the 50 zone your car was zapped, there is doubt that you were actually in the 50 zone.

The signs of course say otherwise and indicate that the 50 zone extends right up to the booths and beyond until the road merges back into 3 lanes. Of course, its not the signs that say where the limits are, but the Statutory Instrument.

I wonder how many hundreds of people have pleaded guilty when they have actually been in the 70 zone.

[coot]

Thanks for this.

As I am at the, conditional offer stage, can I still ask for photographic evidence or an operators statement of exactly where in the 50 zone i was when zapped?

Also, forgive me but where can I read up on the 'statutory instrument'?

Also, dw, I'm not sure I follow your last post.

I think I understand what you are getting at though.

[nicolawelch]

I cant remember how you look up the Statutory Instrument, but it has its own serial number and is a couple paragraphs showing the extent of the 50 zone.

I believe you should ask the safety camera unit to provide a photo, and the camera operator to give evidence of where he was standing.

However, if you dont accept the conditional offer, but take this to court, you face maybe 5 points and £100 fine. But if you can afford the points and can introduce some doubt into not being in the 50 zone, and you win the day that opens the way for 100s of other people to get their fines back.

This is why you wont win the day, the judge wont want to accept the evidence, and regardless of the correct zone, doing 70 up to the toll booths is wrong,

regardless of whether the Statutory Instrument says you can (remember its the Statutory Instrument which defines the law, not the positioning of the speed limit signs).

One would think the 50 zone was there to protect the booths and traffic whilst paying.

I will see if I can find my old papers.

I didnt come across this 'loophole' until too late.

But I did survey the marker posts, and it is these that the Statutory Instrument says defines the exact extent of the 50 zone.

The marker posts accurately comply with the Statutory Instrument and they are something like 800 metres East of the overbridge to 200 meters West.

Just make sure you were not zapped in that section and you can show the judge that there is doubt.

He will hate the implications.

But the papers will love it as previously around 100 people had their fines returned on a different road in South wales about 5 years ago, on the same argument.