Help ..Enforcement notice

[sweetpants]

Please can someone help.

I hand delivered my prelim to Lloyds on 30 Aug giving them 14 days to respond to my request for repayment of £4300.62 in unlawful charges since 2003.I was well over my agreed o/d limit because of these charges

Yesterday I received an enforcement notice ( dated 2 sept).

It gives me notice that they are "terminating our agreement on the 11 sept "and they "demand payment of £2304.41 plus interest which is accruing daily".

It advises me to contact a solicitor ,trading standards or CAB if i have difficulty paying.

It gives me a number to ring.

Do I ring and if so what do I say ?

Sorry but I was quite confident with how things were going up till now and now I am starting to panic.

I have got a parachute account but I cannot afford to pay this amount back until they pay me.

[GaryH]

This is nothing short of a total disgrace. Lloyds are proving themselves over and over again to be er... anyway...... This is directly retaliatory and it stinks. Sorry, a rant is'nt really going to help you so I'll try to be a little more constructive. You need to write to them and insist that the account is in dispute. Ring the number you have as well if you want, but send a letter as well. The banking code section 13 paragraph 6 states that an account in dispute cannot be refurred to a credit referance agency, so this could be a breach. Also, according to the banking code section 7 para 5, they MUST give you 30 days notice if they are to close the account, so there's a clear breach.

You can also apply for an injunction to prevent them doing this, but I'm not 100% sure on the ins and outs so I'll see what I can find out and see what other ammunition there is to hit them with and get back to you. Hopefully someone else can help you more in the meantime. Don't panic though, you will get it sorted and remember that every penny they take from you unlawfully you'll get back with interest.

 

(PS Good to see another Swindonian on the forum!)

[Guest Mumofthreeboys]

You need to write to them and insist that the account is in dispute. Ring the number you have as well if you want, but send a letter as well. The banking code section 13 paragraph 6 states that an account in dispute cannot be closed.

 

The Woolwich tried this with me, but when I pointed out the account was in dispute and the couldn't close it, they stopped sending the letters. Don't panic.

 

I sent this http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/woolwich/7104-dh-mumofthreeboys-woolwich.html post number 20.

[sweetpants]

Thanks to you both.I was really getting worried over this.I will type up a letter now and send it off recorded in the morning then come back and ring them.

I should never have got myself into this mess in the first place but have my house up for sale now to pay off all my debts and am going crazy with all the letters coming in demanding money that I havent got so think this one was last straw and made me hit the panic button.

Thanks guys xx

[Guest Mumofthreeboys]

You're welcome sweet xx

[sweetpants]

Hi GaryH

Sorry in my panic I didnt notice your PS at the bottom .

Swindon born and bred lol

[GaryH]

What about this? Use as much or as little as you like. If you do use it though be sure to edit to suit, ie, if you think a part is inappropriate, then change or delete as required.

 

 

------------------------

 

 

(YOUR ADDRESS)

 

 

 

(THEIR ADDRESS)

 

 

(DATE)

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I acknowledge your recent letter dated (**/**/**) in which you informed me of your intention to terminate my account agreement on September 11th 2006.

 

I write to inform you that I believe this decision is unfair and unjust, and to ask you to reconsider your position.

 

On (**/**/**), I wrote to your customer care department to inform them that I had became aware that the penalty charges levied to my account were unlawful, and requested their repayment. As such, the account is now in dispute. Your letter informing me of the termination of my account agreement was received on (**/**/**). Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable to infer that this is a retaliatory action taken as a direct result of my request for the refund of the unlawfully taken charges. This view is supported by the fact that I am aware of many other customers of Lloyds TSB who on complaining of these charges have been faced with the same situation of account closure.

 

I would draw your attention to the Financial Services Authority’s statement of the 6th July 2006, in which it announced that it considered such retaliatory action to be discriminatory and that it was referring the matter of such closures to the Banking Code’s standards committee. Following on from this, I also believe that the termination of my account agreement in the manner in which it has been proposed would constitute a breach of the terms of the Banking Code. I refer to;

 

Section 13 paragraph 6, which states that an account which is in dispute may not be passed to any credit reference agencies;

 

Section 7 paragraph 5, which states that unless there are exceptional circumstances, ie, threatening or abusive behaviour towards staff, an account will not be closed unless at least 30 days notice is given;

 

Section 14 paragraph 1 and 2, which states that any financial difficulties will be dealt with positively and sympathetically, and any action will be precluded by a period of discussion and the formation of a plan to help deal with those difficulties.

 

Aside from this, (optional short paragraph about personal circumstances, what effect the closure would have, etc………..)

 

I light of the above and because the account is in dispute, I would respectfully ask that Lloyds TSB reconsiders its position with regards to the proposed closure of my account, until such time as the dispute in question reaches its resolution. I feel that a reputable and upstanding organisation such as yours with a fiduciary duty to its customers should be above such retaliatory action, and I am writing in the hope that this matter can reach an amicable solution.

 

However, if you decide that the termination will stand, I wish to make absolutely clear that I intend to contest your decision by every available means at my disposal. This will include official complaints to the Financial Services Authority and the Banking Code Standards Committee and I am currently taking advice with regards to seeking an injunction to prevent the termination of my account agreement. Additionally, I will also petition my member of parliament and contact local and national media outlets.

 

Please respond at your earliest convenience to advise how you intend to proceed.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

 

(YOU)

------------------------

[lucid]

Hi sweetpants,

 

Include the Notice pursuant to s.10 of The Data Protection Act 1998 in with the letter you send them. Mindzai received an enforcement notice on 1st September saying that they were going to terminate the agreement on 8th September. So he promptly wrote a very stongly worded letter to the Collections Centre and CCd it to Customer Recovery - he also attached the s.10 notice. They received this on 5th September and so far we haven't seen any sign of termination.

 

In our case the amount they were demanding was only the arrears on our account (due completely to their charges) and they didn't include the overdraft - so I don't quite know what they were going to terminate.

 

If I were you I would write them a letter only - we personally have found them difficult to talk to on the phone and so told them not to contact us by any methods other than writing - so far we haven't been phoned again. As this is going to lead to you filing a claim against them you are going to want evidence of whatever they say in writing.

 

I really hate the way Lloyds are trying to bully people and scare them into giving up the process of getting charges back. Just a few days after they got our prelim letters they began demanding that we pay them back our arrears. Admittedly they didn't go straight in with an enforcement notice which I think is a very extreme for them to do to you.

 

Good luck and keep at it. Lucid

[datxman]

Could this apply to credit card companies, as captial one has defaulted me and passed me over to a credit collection company

[reload]

It most certainly does apply datxman.

[sweetpants]

Many thanks to you all.Its so easy to be bullied by these people especially when your on your own but thanks to your help and support I am now more determined that I am not going to let them win (not without putting up a damn good fight anyway)

Gary I will use that letter thank you and take the advice from all of you on board.Thats it Im getting my fighting spirit back again. Grrrrrrr look out lloyds lol

[GaryH]

Go get em Sweetpants!

 

Remember to send the letter by first class recorded delivery. Also, as Lucid said, send the DPA s. 10 notice that she linked - thats another useful weapon in the armoury.

 

Hopefully, that'll be enough to change their minds, but it would still be worth searching for some info on the possibility of obtaining an injunction, just in case.

[sweetpants]

Thank you I will. Just found my printer has run out of ink so have forwarded to my work e-mail and will print it off and send first thing in morning. ( wont finish work till 10pm )..Thanks again to you all for the help and support. No doubt I will be back asking for more help soon lol

[Mindzai]

Good luck sweetpants, just focus all of your anger into determination to get your cash back!

 

Lloyds try really hard to bully people, but once you start resisting them and showing them you won't be bullied by them they start to panic. It's all bluff, remember that YOU are in the right, legally and morally.

 

As lucid said I would definitely advise that you include a section in your letter where you tell them to put everything into writing and not to phone you. They will be a lot more carefree with their bully tactics on the phone because they know its hard to prove. If they phone you, tell them to put it in writing and end the call.

[sweetpants]

Thanks Mindzai.

Hand delivered it to my local branch this morning and unless there is anything good from them in the post tomorrow morning ( fat chance ) I will be sending them my LBA tomorrow as their first 14 days is up !!

[GaryH]

Any news on the account closure yet Sweetpants?

[sweetpants]

Hi Gary

 

Nothing from them yet although there was a message on answering machine for me to contact them yesterday.The reply that you kindly drafted to their enforcement notice was delivered on the 12th and I sent my LBA in on the 13th.Got the standard letter back on the 14th saying no so just waiting until 27th to start court action now.Can I go in any time and pick up the forms from the court or do I have to wait .Just thought it would give me time to look through them if I could get them earlier.

[GaryH]

Just hope it's done the job. I would'nt bet money on it knowing what Lloyds are like, but no news is good news eh?

 

Do you mean the claim forms? Yes, by all means you can pick them up and make a start on filling them in whenever you like. Just wait untill the 14 days are up before you actually submit them. Did you know that you can fill in and print of the claim form (N1) online? Heres the link; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/844-n1-claims-form-pdf.html. Thats how I do all mine, it looks really professional.

[sweetpants]

Yes I know what you mean.I was very surprised that they replied the day after I handed the LBA over but then again I think they are getting used to doing it now so as soon as they see an LBA they just hit a button on the keyboard to send the standard reply.Thanks I will use that form.At least that way I can take my time filling it in and get it right and if I do make a mistake at least I can print it off again

[sweetpants]

I have just received a Default Notice.On Oct 9th my account will be passed on to solicitors with instructions to commence proceedings against me to reclaim the Unauthorised Overdrawn Amount which comprises wholly of charges they have taken from me - "plus costs and interest which is accruing daily". I am due to issue my court papers on 4th Oct . They are not going to put me off but am getting more nervous

[GaryH]

Hi Sweetpants,

 

Ah, I was wondering what had happened about that. Have a look at Mindzai and Lucid's thread; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/26172-mindzai-lucid-lloyds-tsb.html?highlight=mindzai. They're in exactly the same position and I'm sure they can give you some advice regarding your next course of action. The main thing is not to panic. Just remember that they are in the wrong here and as I said before, you'll get every unlawful charge back with interest.

 

Gary

[sweetpants]

Thanks Gary.I read that yours has been put off until next year.What a pain.I hope they dont do the same with mine although I am sure they will which will mean more problems for me caused by them.Oh well such is life lol

[lucid]

I have just received a Default Notice.On Oct 9th my account will be passed on to solicitors with instructions to commence proceedings against me to reclaim the Unauthorised Overdrawn Amount which comprises wholly of charges they have taken from me - "plus costs and interest which is accruing daily". I am due to issue my court papers on 4th Oct . They are not going to put me off but am getting more nervous

Hi sweetpants,

 

We're still battling with Collections - although to be fair they are picking on Mindzai much more than me even though it's mostly regarding our joint account. It sounds as though you've received the exact same letter as Mindzai did here. Be prepared to receive many phonecalls from them as Mindzai has had the Collections Centre phone a few times over the last couple of weeks. Every time it is somebody who has no idea that there is a court claim filed against them and that their solicitors have already acknowledged this. They always begin the conversation with something along the lines of "are you aware that your account is in arrears and you need to repay it now." So all of the letters we've sent have obviously gone to waste on them. When they're told that the account is in dispute their argument is always on the basis that Customer Recovery replied to our prelims saying that it's their final response, so that means there is no dispute going on. You just need to remind them that in the prelim letter it clearly says that your next response will be an LBA followed by court action so the dispute has always been ongoing. They will try to disagree with you at every point you make but the phone staff don't really seem to know what's going on and Mindzai has gotten pretty good at arguing our points to them - I'm lucky that it's him they've been picking on because I am really bad at this sort of thing on the phone.

 

You might be interested to know that Mindzai got phoned by Collections again this morning - demanding the money to be repaid. Now, the woman he spoke to clearly didn't know what was going on because she said that she thinks a default notice is issued automatically to the Credit Reference Agencies although she wouldn't confirm that this had happened. She also said that two further letters have been automatically sent out to Mindzai regarding this issue - I'm hoping that this converstaion will be included in Mindza's SAR for all phone recordings. Apparently under the Data Protection Act they can't automatically process data that will be harmful to you so if this default has been passed on atomatically to the Credit Reference Agencies not only have they breached the Banking Code but they will have also broken the law by breaching the Data Protection Act. The end result of the conversation was that an illusive supervisor will call Mindzai back later today to confirm whether a default has been processed. I say illusive because they did their usual trick of pretending that nobody with any authority was present at the time of the conversation.

 

So far we haven't had anything else through about the default but apparently two, automated , letters are on their way for Mindzai. He had until 25th September to repay arrears which we haven't done so I guess these letters will be illustrating the bank's next step.

 

We have given up writing anymore letters to them. As far as we're concerned we made it very clear from the first letter that the accounts are in dispute, there's a court claim against them etc. I'm confident that a judge would think we've done everything correctly in this siutation and that the bank are messing us about.

 

Anyway I just thought I'd give you some info that may be of some use should you begin to receive phonecalls - I'm sure you will. Just be prepared and confident in what you say. The people who phone up don't know anything and if you begin to quote their Banking Code and Data Protection breaches they are well out of their depth. Even the Managers don't know what's going on and the one Mindzai spoke to was advised to give misinformation regarding the Banking Code! Apparently the banks legally have to pass on all information to the Credit Reference Agencies otherwise they're breaking the law - it says that in the Banking Code! The poor guy couldn't tell Mindzai where - I wonder why that was.

 

Good luck and we'll be happy to help more if you want. It looks like we're slighty ahead of your dates for the default notices so keep a check on our thread to see the outcomes of all of this.

 

Lucid

[GaryH]

Thanks Gary.I read that yours has been put off until next year.What a pain.I hope they dont do the same with mine although I am sure they will which will mean more problems for me caused by them.Oh well such is life lol

 

Yes, as our claims will both be at the same court its likely that yours will be stayed too, so be prepared for it. It's not a certainty though, it depends on the individual judge who looks at your case I would think. Also, I'm fighting hard to get the stay set aside, so watch this space!

[sweetpants]

Thanks Lucid

I have been getting lots of phone calls but luckily I have been at work so just get messages saying please phone LLoyds asap.I havent phoned them back as yet because I keep reading on here that its best to correspond by writing rather than phone as you then have proof etc.Not only that I know I will get so confused by them and mess things up.I received a letter yesterday just saying Important Please contact us now on 0870-2424760 regarding your arrears situation. So now not sure if I should ring.I dont want them to say in court that I refused to communicate but their response (in writing) to my LBA was "I must advise you that we will not be entering into any further correspondeence regarding the points you have raised" and then goes on to say that they are within their rights to register default information quoting my letters regarding the Fourth and Sixth Data Protection Principle.

I do wish I had studied law at school