Help ..Enforcement notice

[sweetpants]

Gary

The way my luck is going I will probably be the first that they decide to fight to the end and I will end up in court.Even my daughters said to me at the start when I explained about everyone getting their money back just before it gets to court " Yeah but knowing your luck mum yours will be the one that they take to court"

Fancy being a court buddy ? Hee Hee

I shouldnt joke but they have got me to the stage where if I dont laugh about it I would just curl up in a ball and cry .Im still determined that they wont win but their intimidating tactics do shake the confidence a little

[GaryH]

Believe me your not the only one to think that you'll be the first one to go to court. In fact everyone worries about that at some stage, I did too when I first started out, but to be honest now I'm almost hoping that I'll get my day in court. Mines only for around £350, so the principle is far more important than the money now. Have you read Wolfcubs thread? If not here it is http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/5513-wolfcub-lloyds-soooo.html. Its definately inspirational and shows how much Lloyds really don't want to go to court. Good case notes too.

 

Having said that, if in the highly unlikely event your case did go to court, I am already registered as a buddy and I'd be happy to put your case for you if you wanted me to. Although I should say that I'm definately no lawyer!

 

Hang on in there, it will be worth it in the end! Also, I'll see what I can find out with regards to this proposed closure, see if theres anything else you can do about it. I'll get back to you later today or if not tomorrow morning.

[sweetpants]

Thanks Gary your a star.

Lawyer or not the difference is I know I would have someone there with me that knows something about it and is going (or has gone)through same thing.If it went to court my daughters would support me but as they arent anything to do with the forum they wouldnt have a clue.Anyway by the time I get to that stage Im hoping yours will have been settled.

I have just read MJanets and will now go and read up on Wolfcubs.Thanks again.

[lucid]

Thanks Lucid

I have been getting lots of phone calls but luckily I have been at work so just get messages saying please phone LLoyds asap.I havent phoned them back as yet because I keep reading on here that its best to correspond by writing rather than phone as you then have proof etc.Not only that I know I will get so confused by them and mess things up.I received a letter yesterday just saying Important Please contact us now on 0870-2424760 regarding your arrears situation. So now not sure if I should ring.I dont want them to say in court that I refused to communicate but their response (in writing) to my LBA was "I must advise you that we will not be entering into any further correspondeence regarding the points you have raised" and then goes on to say that they are within their rights to register default information quoting my letters regarding the Fourth and Sixth Data Protection Principle.

I do wish I had studied law at school

Hi sweetpants,

 

Yes it is worrying to have to talk to them on the phone as you don't want to be tricked into saying something you don't want to. The problem is, like you've said, they're asking you to contact them on the phone immediately and if it did get to court then there is a possibility that it will look as though you've just been ignoring them. This was what Mindzai pointed out when I was left a phone message by them and I didn't want to phone them either. Now as I've said before I'm absolutely rubbish at talking to companies on the phone but I got through the phonecall without them talking me into agreeing to repay the money or agreeing that I was in the wrong. Basically I had to keep repeating that the amount owed was in dispute so I wasn't going to be repaying any money until the dispute was resolved.

 

What I'd suggest you do is write them a strongly worded letter and if you want us to, me and Mindzai will help you with that - Mindzai has sent quite a few now. If you check out Mindzai's letters here, here and here you will get an idea of the kind of things you can include in this letter. If I'm right then what they've done so far is retaliated to your preliminary letter by handing your account over to Collections and instantly serving you with an enforcement notice. They have then issued you with a default notice and are giving you until 9th October to repay the money - and you're going to be filing your claim on 4th October. So I think a letter to the Manager at Collections that is also CCd to Customer Recovery is in order.

 

Then I think you should contact them on the phone and, although it might sound a strange idea, I would have a list of things written down infront of you so that you can present all of your arguments to them if you need to - this is what I'll do if I have to phone them anytime soon. If you tell them that you are phoning just to let them know that you've sent a letter to the Manager and you don't want to disuss anything over the phone with them as you will be filing a court claim on 4th October. If they ignore this, and they probably will, they will try to get you to discuss with them that you need to repay the money so this is where your list comes in handy. Firstly ask them to confirm whether the conversation is being recorded as this may come in handy if they present any wrong information to you - it also may prevent them from trying to blag you so much. Tell them that the amount has been in dispute since (date of prelim) and that it has always been in dispute since then. If they try to say "but Customer Recovery issued their final response" inform them that in your prelim you told them that if they do not respond postively you will send a Letter Before Action, in which you said that if they do not comply you will begin a court claim against them.

 

If they try to argue that the charges aren't unlawful you just need to say that you don't want to get into a discussion on this over the phone because you believe that you can prove in court that they are unlawful. If they say that you will have a default notice placed on your credit record if you don't repay the arrears then remind them that this breaches section 13.6 of the Banking Code - it's possible that they won't know what this is so have it there ready to quote to them. It's also possible that they might try to say that it is also in the Banking Code that they legally have to pass in this information to the credit agencies - but this is a complete lie so don't listen to it and make sure you tell them you know that it is not in there. If they are adament ask them to point to the section of the code where it says this - that'll put them on hold.

 

I think that should be enough to cover anything they might throw at you. If you can, try to end the conversation after informing them that a letter covering the matter has been sent to the Manager and also CCd to Customer Service Recovery Centre. If they try to persist point out that the amount is in dispute and you'll be issuing a court claim so you want them to respond to your letter in writing so that it is there as evidence.

 

I know it's really off putting but just try to be as confident as possible and be sure in your head of where you stand. You will be fine. Just remember that most of the people who you'll speak to on the phone are just call centre staff and they are way out of their depth on this. They just get told that they need to get you to pay up but they really don't understand the seriousness of these issues - in my opinion. If you get a particularly rude person - and there are some - then make sure you say your piece and tell them that you need to end the conversation there because you need to have it all in writing as evidence.

 

I think that if you write and then phone to inform them that a letter is on the way then you will have done everything you can to communicate with them. If you really don't want to phone then stick with the letter only - but just bear in mind that the Collections Centre receive these letters and don't seem to do anything with them at all. Maybe if you give them a few points of what you want them to do at the end of the letter like Mindzai did:

 

I therefore require you to reply to this letter;

 

1. With acknowledgement of your intention to act upon the issues raised within five days as per the Banking Code Section 15.3.

 

2. With a response from you or someone in your staff who has the authority and ability to act upon my complaint, and

 

3. Without using a standard letter or template.

He hasn't had a response from Collections but he did get a very quick response from Customer Recovery saying that somebody will address the issues soon. Also it probably comes as no surpirse that the illusive supervisor never returned Mindzai's phone call yesterday - that really is a surprise.

 

As I said in the last post we will keep you updated with what's happening about this default. So far there are no signs of anything happening but there are two automated letters on the way so we'll see what they say. They haven't closed the account yet and the default deadline was 25th September.

 

Lucid

[lucid]

Hi sweetpants,

 

I just wanted to let you know that Mindzai has had a response from Lloyds regarding his letter of complaint to Collections. It's only an acknowledgement so far but they haven't done this before so it's some progress. He ended his letter giving them bullet point actions that he wanted them to follow through so I think you should end your letter in this way in the hope that this will also get a response for you. Otherwise the Collections Centre seem to completely ignore any letters you send. They've forwarded the letters on to the Brighton Customer Recovery Centre who are going to be dealing with it.

 

So if you want any help or want to use Mindzai's letters as a guidline then feel free.

 

Lucid

[sweetpants]

Thanks Lucid + Gary

Sorry for delay in reply but have been sorting out my N1 to take to court tomorrow.Think I have put too much detail in the Brief Details box but have used all my paper up now so it will have to stay as it is.

I will definitely take your advice and will be printing off a letter tomorrow ( once I get more paper)and will also ring them.Just have to make my notes so I dont get railroaded by them and I am all set.

Wish me luck

[GaryH]

Does'nt really matter, as long as the particulars are all there on an attached sheet, and your schedule obviously. Also, make sure you put Miss/Mrs before your name, and PLC after Lloyds TSB in the defendant box. Silly as it may seem, they can actually refuse to issue it without these details! Make sure you take 3 copies of everything with you - they'll charge you a pound a sheet otherwise.

[sweetpants]

Hi Gary

I went there straight from work so had not read your reply doh.Stupid me had made 3 copies but only took 2 with me.I had read earlier " Print 3 copies" but with the nerves ( or was it excitement:) ) of actually filing the claim I had a blonde moment and assumed one copy was for me to keep.

The lady at the court said it was ok though as minimum required was 2. One for them and one for Lloyds.They will contact me asap with claim number etc.

I filled all the bits in ok though with PLC etc and even put my middle name which doesnt see the light of day too often.( only time it really ever got used was when I was younger and my mum told me off lol ) So now its just wait and see.

Did they get back to you quite quickly with the claim no and court date ?

 

Sweetpants

[lucid]

Hi sweetpants,

 

We had our claims sent through in the post about 4 days after we filed them at the court. Then SC&M filed an Acknowledgement of Service about a week after we filed it.

 

It's all a matter of waiting now.

 

Lucid

[sweetpants]

Hi Lucid

Well I am totally gobsmacked.Just got in from work to find a letter from Lloyds.

I opened it thinking there were going to be more threats and intimidation inside and what do I find..........an apology........for the upset and inconvenience caused as a result of receiving the enforcement letter.It was sent automatically and should have been suspended while the account was in dispute.

Someone pinch me cos im sure im dreaming this !!!!!:o

Do you think they are being nice in the hope that I wont file a claim.........If so they are too late

 

Sweetpants

[lucid]

Hi sweetpants,

 

Wow! I'm assuming you hadn't sent them a further letter or phoned them yet? Well let's hope that they're going to leave you alone now then. Unfortunately Mindzai hasn't had anything of the sort sent so far and he has communicated with them countless times. Maybe you're right and they're hoping to guilt you into ending the claim.

 

Oh well good luck with your claim and I hope that's the last you hear from them on the arrears matter.

 

Lucid

[Mindzai]

Thats very interesting indeed!

[sweetpants]

Hi Mindzai

Sorry cant get the scanner going so will copy it tomorrow

Sweetpants

[Mindzai]

cheers sweetpants much appreciated

[sweetpants]

Hi Mindzai

No problem.You have given me help and support so anything to return the favour. PM me the address and I will put a copy in the post today

 

Sweetpants

[sweetpants]

Hi Mindzai

First class post this afternoon.Hope it helps

 

Sweetpants

[GaryH]

Hi Lucid

Well I am totally gobsmacked.Just got in from work to find a letter from Lloyds.

I opened it thinking there were going to be more threats and intimidation inside and what do I find..........an apology........for the upset and inconvenience caused as a result of receiving the enforcement letter.It was sent automatically and should have been suspended while the account was in dispute.

Someone pinch me cos im sure im dreaming this !!!!!:o

Do you think they are being nice in the hope that I wont file a claim.........If so they are too late

 

Sweetpants

 

OMG!!!! Excellant news, if a little surprising. Could this be the first sign that Lloyds TSB are changing their devious ways? Doubt it, but perhaps!

 

With regards to the time it'll take to issue your claim, don't expect it to be served for at least 7 days after you issued it. They're snowed under at Swindon CC at the moment, plus they've got a staff shortage. My Capitol One claim was'nt served untill 10 days after it was issued.

[sweetpants]

Hi Gary

Hope the move is going ok.

Yes it was surprising.They are still asking me to ring them as they now need my proposals to pay the balance of my account and want me to call collections to discuss the way forward.So polite !! I will have to ring them and let them know that I have filed a claim and once they pay me that it will leave me below my o/d limit but at least thats one threat off my back.

I half expected a long wait.When I handed it over the woman gave me a strange look so I said " yes its another one of those" lol

[sweetpants]

Rang collections and as soon as she said was I able to pay amount owed and I replied that the account was in dispute she said she would record the fact on my file but that I may still get letters as they are automated.At least it should stop them ringing me twice a day....hopefully

[GaryH]

I would'nt worry about it too much now, if you can help it. You've got the letter from them admitting they should'nt have issued the default notice cos the accounts in dispute, so if they ring just quote their own letter + s.13.6 of the banking code. If it does get to much again though, I notice there's now a 'telephone harrasment' letter in the templates library. Could be useful, altough don't send it unless you need to - its quite aggressive and could be interpereted as a decleration of war!

[sweetpants]

Cheers Gary

How did the interviews go....well I hope

[GaryH]

Yeah, good ta. Waiting to hear back from the second one tomorrow, if thats a no then the first one's still open for me so I'll make do with that for now. Its gonna be hard going back now actually, getting quite used to being redundant an dossing around all day!

[sweetpants]

Lloyds filed an acknowledgement of service on 20th October and have 20 days to file a defence.The acknowledgement was filed by their solicitors Sechiari,Clark & Mitchell.

Lo and behold today I received a letter from S,C & M dated 3rd Nov with a formal demand for balance of account with daily interest.Giving me 7 days to pay before a court action is started against me.

[sweetpants]

Anyone with any ideas of how I reply to this

[GaryH]

Hi SP

 

First off, I'd send the letter you sent origionally, along with the apology you received in response. Perhaps with a short covering letter to go with it which politely but firmly re-iterates the situation. As I said before, I can't see now how they've got a leg to stand on now, as they've already admitted to you that no action should have been taken as the accounts in dispute. Perhaps this is another "automated letter"! Give me an hour and I'll get a cover letter up together if you like.