CCJ Threat - Seven Trent Water

[Hind71]

Hello, I have today received a letter from Seven Trent water claiming I owe them over £350 when I have only lived in my flat for less that 7 months.

 

They claim they have filed a CCJ against me and if I don't pay it ASAP they will go for judgement againts me for the whole amout plus court fees etc.

 

I am not going to lie, I have made some payments to them and I have missed others but there is no way I owe that amount.

 

The letter came in a bright orange evelope with two blue stripes down it, and telemessage written on it, very professional I must say

 

I have had no contact from any Debt Collection Agency. I am on JSA and after I have paid out for food, heating, electric I am left with just over £5.

 

Any advice?

[buzby]

Not sure what you're looking for - a Telemessage was a replacement service to Telegrams when the Post Office disbanded their courier service. It was run by BT for a while, but was sold off as it didn;t make much money. It is now usually utilised by Utility companies as part of their in-house Debt collection processes.

 

You don;t say whether your water is metered, but if not you will have been billed for whatever amount is due and you're expected to pay this along with gas, electric and telecom. Missing a payment (from a monthly plan) usually terminates this facility and the remainder is required to be paid, and in full. It would appear that it is this they are trying to collect. They will add their legal costs to the amount owing, and the CCJ will be recorded by Registry Trust and shown on your credit file.

 

Your only solution is to work it out with then, but they may not be interested if the original payment plan failled - all you can really do is ask.

[Surfer01]

They have not filed a CCJ against you as this can only happen after you have received summons and gone through the court process and lost. Even then you still have 28 dasy before the CCJ is marked up on ylour credit file.

We have a 2 bedroom bungalow in the Severn Trent area with a garden and we are metered. For the two of us the bill is less than £300 a year so may be worth considering changing to metered water if yu can otherwise the bill for the full year would be about £380..

[buzby]

Just as councils have no need to actually arrange a court hearing, utilities (like water) do not have to

do this either. It is an administrative function, and a CCJ can be awarded simply because the debt is owed and the debtor refuses to pay. Despite water being privatised in E&W, this enforcement ability was never withdrawn. (In Scotland, where water is still public - it is the councils who collect the 'Water Rates' as part of the Council tax, so paying one pays the other. Fail to pay, and there's no need to go to court as a Judgement will follow, followed by Sheriff Officers to collect.

[minmoo]

Hello, I have today received a letter from Seven Trent water claiming I owe them over £350 when I have only lived in my flat for less that 7 months.

 

They claim they have filed a CCJ against me and if I don't pay it ASAP they will go for judgement againts me for the whole amout plus court fees etc.

 

I am not going to lie, I have made some payments to them and I have missed others but there is no way I owe that amount.

 

The letter came in a bright orange evelope with two blue stripes down it, and telemessage written on it, very professional I must say

 

I have had no contact from any Debt Collection Agency. I am on JSA and after I have paid out for food, heating, electric I am left with just over £5.

 

Any advice?

 

 

Not sure if this will help but my dad told me about when he owed severn trent about 700 pounds about 15 years ago and couldnt afford to pay. It turns out that he went to CAB and they told him that water authoities had a slush fund for people who couldnt afford to pay their overdue bills but it can only be agreed to through CAB negotiating. ST wont admit it exists to customers. You need to prove you cant pay but it must be worth a go if you are on JSA. Good luck

[buzby]

This fund still exists, as it does for all utilities - CAB have no special access to it, it is available to all consuers to apply for, but it remains at the discretion of the utility and requires muchmore than simply an inability to pay, it is means tested and those I spoke to were apalled at the intrusiveness of the questions. Not only that, it isn;t a bottomless pit of funding, a set amount it set aside anually, and usually runs out within the first few months.

 

I get the impression it exists only to let the companies point to it to say they offer charity to those in most need.

[minmoo]

This fund still exists, as it does for all utilities - CAB have no special access to it, it is available to all consuers to apply for, but it remains at the discretion of the utility and requires muchmore than simply an inability to pay, it is means tested and those I spoke to were apalled at the intrusiveness of the questions. Not only that, it isn;t a bottomless pit of funding, a set amount it set aside anually, and usually runs out within the first few months.

 

I get the impression it exists only to let the companies point to it to say they offer charity to those in most need.

 

That's fair enough, i guess i was only putting forward an opportunity if he really was in a pickle and had no proper income.

[nottslad]

If you are on a water meter, check that the meter readings are correct as this could be an issue causing the large bill.

 

Talk to Severn Trent about your situation; if they aren't aware of your financial difficulty they can't help.

 

The application form for the Severn Trent Trust Fund can be found at http://www.sttf.org.uk/app.htm

 

It's worth giving it a go, even if they turn round and say no, you have tried.

[Hind71]

STW Response

 

Dear Mr ****

 

Account Number: **********

Account Balance: £330.54

Claim balance: £330.54

Claim number: 0QP15677

 

Thank you for your Email received on 5 January 2011 regarding the above claim.

 

I can confirm the current outstanding balance on your account is £330.54, this consists of £38.50 in arrears for the period 25 January 2010 until

31 March 2010 and £213.50 in current charges billed for the period 31 March 2010 until 31 March 2011. As no payment has been received despite our best efforts to contact you, a county court claim has been issued against you adding additional costs, fees and interest totalling £78.74.

 

Any reminders sent to your address will have been sent via standard royal mail post, please be advised that the postal service is not an agent of Severn Trent Water Ltd and any issue that you may have regarding the delivery of mail is a third party matter in which Severn Trent Water cannot become involved.

 

In accordance with Parts 27 and 45 of the Civil Procedure Rules (C.P.R.), a Claimant is entitled to include fixed commencement costs and fees when a Claim is issued. The amount of these costs and fees is set out in the C.P.R. and is determined by the Lord Chancellor and not by

Severn Trent Water Ltd. A Claimant is also entitled to include interest in a Claim in accordance with Section 69 of the County Court Act (1984).

 

Billing in advance is in line with our Scheme of Charges, under section 143 of the Water Industry Act 1991. Customers remain liable for payment of the advance charges until they tell us that they have changed address and their responsibility ceased.

 

If you wish to dispute the Claim, you will need to complete the Defence form enclosed within the Claim pack and return it direct to Northampton County Court at the following address:

 

THE COURT MANAGER

NORTHAMPTON COUNTY COURT

ST KATHARINE’S HOUSE

21-27 ST KATHARINE’S STREET

NORTHAMPTON

NN1 2LH

 

If you do not dispute the Claim, full payment should be made immediately direct to Severn Trent Water, Providence Row, Durham, DH1 1RR. Please quote the above Claim and account numbers when making payment. Payment by credit/debit card (excluding American Express) can be made by telephoning 0845 500 500.

 

If you wish to clear the Claim balance, including the costs, fees and interest, by instalments, you will need to complete the Admission form enclosed within the Claim pack and return it to Severn Trent Water Ltd. As a formality, upon receipt of your completed Admission, Judgment will be requested against you. The Judgment Order will be forwarded to you by the Court and will increase the Claim balance to include Judgment costs of £40.00 and any additional interest charges. However, provided the payments are maintained as agreed, the Judgment costs of £40.00 can be removed from your account by contacting Severn Trent Water Ltd once the Claim has been paid in full.

 

Please note that, should you fail to make a formal response to the Claim within Court timescales, Default Judgment may be entered against you, adding further costs of £22.00 and any additional interest charges to your account. These costs are non-refundable. To allow time for you to make a formal response to the Claim, I have suspended any further recovery action on your account for a period of 28 days.

 

I trust this clarifies the situation. Should you have any queries, please telephone

0845 602 2777.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

Andy Holloway

Team Generalist Litigation

[Surfer01]

How did yu make the paymenst to them? Was it by cash in a PO, by Debit or credit card or some other means where you have proof of payment. When paying, did you quote an account number or did you use a ST Water "payment card" in conjunction with your method of payment with a long number on it? Do you have a record of these payments?

[buzby]

They appear to be aware of you being a resident much longer than seven months. Were the arrears for this or a different property? It looks as though they acknowledge you have made some payments, but as you can see, the recovery costs have seriously pumped up the charges.

[sequenci]

Just as councils have no need to actually arrange a court hearing, utilities (like water) do not have to

do this either. It is an administrative function, and a CCJ can be awarded simply because the debt is owed and the debtor refuses to pay. Despite water being privatised in E&W, this enforcement ability was never withdrawn. .

 

Are you sure about this? Can you direct to an online authority as I've never come across this in all my years working in the debt advice field. It's pretty interesting!

 

Thanks!

[Surfer01]

When I worked in utilities, it was common to get a warrant of execution to cut off electric or gas, but you cannot do this with water although you can restrict the flow of water. A warrant of execution was not a route to a CCJ.

To get a CCJ we had to get a court summons issued onto the person defaulting and then if they did not pay a CCJ would be lodged against them. It was not automatic here in England. This route was seldom followed as it created more hassles than solutions as most defaulters ha dmoved on which is why they did not respond to summons etc so waste of time and money for the utility company. This also applied to businesses as either they had gone down the tubes or they simply did a vanishing act.

Actually wonder if any utility company has ever taken any one to court for bad debt and been successful and got their money as it must be very rare.

[sequenci]

My understanding is the same as Surfer's

[buzby]

The situation will most likely have changed in England since the privatisation of the water industry there (and Wales, I believe). In Scotland and NI, the cost of water is an inherent part of the Council Tax system, where the old Residential 'Water Rates' were rolled into the Council Tax, and the council paid over the assessed amount (based on property size not consumption) to the supplying agency.

 

Therefore, in these areas non payment is an issue for the Council, and Decrees for non payment are a natural part of enforcement, with no requirement for any formal court action - as there is a Statutory Addition of 10% of the amount owing and if this is not paid, a flat fee for the Warrant of Execution. The householder has only one arbiter, the Council. There is no appeal to the court.

[sequenci]

So your post #4 is incorrect, then?

[buzby]

So your post #4 is incorrect, then?

 

No. It is completely correct. CouncilsSTILL have the right to enforce, it has never been withdrawn.

 

How an individual privatised water company decides to enforce non payment is up to them on an individual basis. If they choose to use the Council for enforcement the CCJ is simply rubber stamped. If they do it themselves, they do not have the same powers as the council and will be required to seek a CCJ by conventional means.

[sequenci]

Buzby, please find me a council in England that can do what you mention in relation to a CCJ.

 

I bet you cannot my good man

[Surfer01]

Water rates in England and Wales are based on the rateable value of the house which is why it is so disproportionate in some areas, but is no longer connected with the council at all. Bit of a bugger if you are a couple living in a hosue with a high rateable value but yu use 505 less water than your neighbour who has 5 people in his family. Main reason why we switched to a water meter and are now saving nearly £100 per annum even though we have a small garden!

[buzby]

Oh dear. Bee in your bonnet time?

 

Sorry, I have no interest in researching matters that are of little relevance to me. The facts stand for themselves - if you wish to seek the information, YOU find out by asking each and every water company what their policy on the matter is. The fact remains, Councils can still purrsue householders for water debts, whether they actually do so in practice is irrelevant. For those in Scotland and NI, Councils enforce non-payment as a matter of routine.

[sequenci]

no bee in the bonnet for me sir. I just want to ensure our forum users get accurate advice.

[Surfer01]

Oh dear. Bee in your bonnet time?

 

Sorry, I have no interest in researching matters that are of little relevance to me. The facts stand for themselves - if you wish to seek the information, YOU find out by asking each and every water company what their policy on the matter is. The fact remains, Councils can still purrsue householders for water debts, whether they actually do so in practice is irrelevant. For those in Scotland and NI, Councils enforce non-payment as a matter of routine.

I gather that in your own way you are admitting defeat but not acknowledging it. We can live with that! Thanks for input though because others learn through discussion

[buzby]

Defeat? Actually no - my comment was directed at a member of the Site Team who seems intend on point-scoring than information, but no change there. As for the post, I can confirm there are parts of the UK where no court action is required to obtain a CCJ. This remains as accurate now as it was a few hours ago.

[sequenci]

It's not about point scoring in the slightest, it's about ensuring the best possible advice for the users of the forum.

 

The last thing we need is people making mistakes - which ends up costing them!

[buzby]

That comes across in your original post?