Lost ESA tribunal. What now?

[NinaUp]

Hi everyone,

 

I’d never thought I’ll need help on a forum like this one.

 

In Feb will be two years since that horrible night when I woke up with enormous pain in my shoulder and low back. It was the start of my nightmare journey.

 

In 2008, I registered for JSA and was referred to ESA. Two ATOS medicals went fine, on third one I got only 6 points – (16.06.10). I did get help from local CAB, unfortunately, the CAB has lost the contract with the LSC for welfare benefits advice and I couldn’t get any help in two other CABs. Anyway, I appealed and went on hearing (06.12.10) having only a letter from my GP to support me. The letter said about my history and concluded “I’m at quite a loss as to the cause of her symptoms but they are definitely severe and genuine in nature. She has taken various analgesics including Co-codamol and Tramadol with little effect. I’m now in process of referring her onto the Pain Clinic for further management of her severe pain”.

 

I’m depressed for long time now and on last appointment with GP I was advised to start taking antidepressants instead of painkillers because they can’t go together. Almost two years now since I sleep/lay down only on left side, do my cooking on ironing board instead of worktop (lower surface makes it easer for me), do washing up only in sitting down position, can’t put cattle on with more then one mug of water in it, can’t concentrate and do very silly things, etc. I can’t do any physical exercises because a nerve in my left shoulder and I can’t walk anymore without walking stick. Most horrifying thing’s that I see my condition has worsened and I feel like I’m going down.

 

Having seen me leaning on their desk and constantly changing position, First-Tier Tribunal made decision: “The appellant does not meet the threshold of Limited Capability for work and is not entitled to ESA and/or related credits from 16.06.10 The descriptors satisfied in Schedule 2 ESA Regulations are: standing 2e 6 points, Sitting 2f 6 points. However under ESA Regulation 19 (6) only one of these descriptors can be counted in the final score. Total score for ESA purpose is 6 points”.

 

Please can you advise what shell I do now? I can't claim JSA as I’m unable to work but is no longer entitled to ESA. Right now I can’t turn my hitting on because I have no idea when I’ll have some money.

 

Any advice will be much appreciated.

 

Thank you.

[rightsforme]

Hi Nina

I am really sorry to hear of your pligh, I know how bad this can be as I also suffer from mid to low back pain and am in agony daily with the additional problem of PTSD following a severe accident and have finally been referred to the pain clinic, who do actually help with the pain, though waiting lists are long for treatments.

 

Could you speak to your doctor again and tell him just how bad it is effecting you mentally as well as the physical as it is not true that painkillers and antidepressants can't be taken together as I am on both antidepressants and painkillers including tramadol. You may be able to get your doctor to issue a fitness note and reapply under mental health if he believes that this is effecting you to such a degree that you are not able to work because of it.

 

Hopefully someone else will be along shortly with some more official advice for you on other help you might find usefull.

[honeybee13]

Hello there and welcome to the forum. It's a shame you didn't find us before, but you're here now.

 

I agree with rightsforme, appeal is unlikely to be the way forward. Erika always says you can only appeal on a point of law, not a medical one, say. But as rightsforme says, you can apply again. Do you have Welfare Rights in your area? You contact them through the council.

 

When you reapply, which you can do for a new condition or one that has got worse, it's important to get the paperwork right and we can help you with that. We've had people on the forum come unstuck because they didn't think the forms were that important. Our gurus should be able to tell you what medical evidence will count and what stage of your application.

 

Our gurus tend to be around in the evenings, so I hope they'll turn up later with some thoughts for you.

 

My best, HB

[NinaUp]

rightsforme

Many thanks for kind words.

I know that waiting lists business takes time. Could you tell me pls how long it was in your case? Did you get your treatment on first appointment or latter?

 

It was my GP who said that painkillers and antidepressants can't be taken together and I did take tramadol with no effect. He has been very nice to me since first day and didn’t charge me for his letter, but, obviously, it didn’t do any job for me in tribunal.

 

As to my mental condition, I catch myself on doing very strange/stupid things like pouring water in sugar jar instead of mug, or standing in the middle of shop thinking why I’m here etc. I would say it’s a lack of concentration or some kind of side effect of those strong painkillers or too much depressed. I don’t understand where it’s came from but it definitely doesn’t help.

 

You see, I spent 7years on studying p/t and working full time and 2,5 years for looking for decent job. My guess is that shock when I realised that I won’t be able to get the job I was looking for brought me to physical condition I’m in now. I didn’t give up battling and started my business in IT and have launched 5 web sited so far. They make penny by penny every day, but it’s not an income yet. I’ve to work on them very hard and make some more sites but my health doesn’t allow me to do much, if anything at all. Ever so often I’ve to read same sentence few times before I understand it. When I get the meaning and ready to write I’ve to get up and do some exercises because of backpain. I cry every day because I know how much I could/need to do I much I done.

[leemack]

If its more than 6 months since the decision after the medical then you should be able to apply for esa again based on the same criteria (unless this rule has changed recently). When getting evidence and information for appeal, it is important that anything you get is directly relatable to the descriptors. As Honeybee said you can't take the case further unless there's been an error of law at the tribunal. If you're unsure, write to them asking for a full statement of reasons and then get a wefare rights adviser to check it over. Very few cases actually have an error of law, and if you didn't provide much evidence then its probable that they made the best decision they could with the information available.

[NinaUp]

leemack

 

Thanks. 6 months will be on 16.12 I’ve to survive somehow

[leemack]

Its probably the best way, unless you apply for jsa, as if you claim esa within 6 months on a worsening condition then you usually have to wait for and pass the medical before they'll pay you anything.

[NinaUp]

honeybee13

 

Been thinking whole night and applied for JSA. I did say that tribunal found me employable. So, even if on first interview I’ll be referred to ESA, they still should pay me some money for couple days. Am I right?

 

Spent pretty much time searching for local Welfare Rights. It took me some time but I found local Community Legal Advice Centre address & N.

[NinaUp]

Thank you all! I thought nobody interested in my post…

 

SORRY

[leemack]

Just remember Nina, the 6 months needs to be from the date on the decision letter you received NOT the date of the medical. Good luck, hope this new claim goes smoothly for you.

[honeybee13]

Please keep us posted and ask any questions you might have.

 

HB x

[NinaUp]

Yes, I know.

 

Do you know what I did last two days? Studied this forum.

 

 

God bless you all.

[NinaUp]

honeybee13

 

You say about Welfare Rights. I found Community Legal Advice Centre. What kind of help could I get/do I need from these people.

 

Sorry, if it’s too basic, I never ever even thought about this type of services and definitely don’t want to ask around.

[honeybee13]

Hi. I don't know a huge amount, mostly what I've read on the forum, but Erika and Leemack if she's around know, and some other forum members. I know Welfare Rights help fill forms in and also represent people at tribunals.

 

I guess Community Law Centre is what it says on the tin, and you don't seem to be in the legal arena at the moment. I'd try for Welfare Rights via the council first, but the others may have other thoughts.

 

HB x

[rightsforme]

rightsforme

Many thanks for kind words.

I know that waiting lists business takes time. Could you tell me pls how long it was in your case? Did you get your treatment on first appointment or latter?

 

It was my GP who said that painkillers and antidepressants can't be taken together and I did take tramadol with no effect. He has been very nice to me since first day and didn’t charge me for his letter, but, obviously, it didn’t do any job for me in tribunal.

 

As to my mental condition, I catch myself on doing very strange/stupid things like pouring water in sugar jar instead of mug, or standing in the middle of shop thinking why I’m here etc. I would say it’s a lack of concentration or some kind of side effect of those strong painkillers or too much depressed. I don’t understand where it’s came from but it definitely doesn’t help.

 

You see, I spent 7years on studying p/t and working full time and 2,5 years for looking for decent job. My guess is that shock when I realised that I won’t be able to get the job I was looking for brought me to physical condition I’m in now. I didn’t give up battling and started my business in IT and have launched 5 web sited so far. They make penny by penny every day, but it’s not an income yet. I’ve to work on them very hard and make some more sites but my health doesn’t allow me to do much, if anything at all. Ever so often I’ve to read same sentence few times before I understand it. When I get the meaning and ready to write I’ve to get up and do some exercises because of backpain. I cry every day because I know how much I could/need to do I much I done.

 

Hi Nina,

Sorry for the late reply, I have been having a very bad few days and have not been on. My appointment at pain clinic was quite quick about a month and I was referred immediately for various different treatments some of which I am still waiting for. I have had acupuncture which helped the pain a little but would not hold and have now been offered a further course. I have also had injections in my back and xrays a few weeks back under anesthetic and now waiting results of that, though at the moment it does seem to have reduced the level of pain a little. I also found tramadol does not really does not do a lot for me either and I only take them at night when i have really severe pain as the next day it leaves me zombified.. I have just had appointment through for the tens treatment and still waiting for psychologist appointment (which I hope will be very soon as the PTSD is the biggest issue for me at the moment and just getting worse) for CBT and pain management. It is now about 3 months since I first saw pain clinic doctor, but when I did see him it was a great relief as I felt for the first time someone actually believed me and was going to do something to help. Also my accupuncturist actually witnessed an episode of the excruciating pain I often get which leaves me crying in agony and unable to even move.I am now also waiting for physiotherapy again, though I am worried about that as last time it made me worse, but my doctor he thinks it is mechanical pain rather than anything serious and that because the back pain has been ignored for so long (11 years since my accident and specialist stated that I would just have to live with it if it persisted after 2 years from the accident) then they have to retrain the nervous system and that it will take a long time, hence the various treatments. Depending on effects of treatment though he will decide whether to undertake further tests, so on the physical side I do at last feel that at last that something is being done to get to the bottom of what is causing it and what can be done to help so I am sure you will find the pain clinic a great help and relief.

 

As regards mental condition it does sound as if this is creating the biggest issue for you as it does me I do the same things as you do. I find I am up and down like a yo yo.I was lucky enough to have been diagnosed from a top specialist with severe PTSD and had treatment years ago which is on my medical records, but have found it very frustrating that there seems to be very little help available on NHS for recurrence. I know what it is, I understand it and know that the only way that I am going to be able to manage it again is by CBT with a specialist psychologist to help as though I know that the trigger that caused it was bullying at work, I don't understand why it has recurred worse than before and why I have been unable to get it back under control so very much understand your feeling of you not understanding where it has come from. I would suggest that you ask you make sure that when you see the pain clinic doctor that you also discuss with him the mental health side as I think you would also benefit from help with the psychologist.

 

I found your last paragraph very interesting as the pain you suffer is very similar to mine and the mental health effects are also similar. The interesting part of this is that you also spent years studying to improve your job prospects. I was a single parent of 3, worked full time and studied part time and gained numerous qualifications to improve my job prospects and never be in the position I am in. I do feel that there could be a connection here in that having to endure the treatment of ATOS and DWP is actually making people worse, due to the frustration not being believed and getting the relevant help required and the frustration of losing everthing that we have worked towards through no fault of our own.I honestly believe that had I not had to endure this farce and had the correct help I would have been back at work now, instead I have been made worse by a system that does not care. I was lucky to win my appeal without even having to attend as I already had specialist medical evidence that supported my claim, but still find I am having difficulty getting the relevant specialist support now that would enable me to get my life back together.

 

Nina You are not alone, this site is a great support for those going through this and feel free to add me as a friend and email if you want to talk anytime to someone who does understand I will email you back with my number. The support of my friends is and has been extremely important in preventing me going over the edge.

[leemack]

Hi Nina, community legal advice centres may well have benefit advisers on staff who can give advice on your individual circumstances and would have been able to help with your appeal. If you've decided to claim jsa then there isn't much they can do at the moment unless you run into a problem. If you claim esa again, though, you may want to contact them for help to complete the esa50 form about your work capability, they then will also be able to help if you need to appeal and will be able to help you get extra evidence to support your appeal.

[NinaUp]

leemack

 

I’ll be able to apply for ESA again only after 16.12. Everyone here knows how long ATOS and DWP take and I’ve no guarantee in passing their assessment. Been there and done that three times and every time felt humiliated for being a secondary creature. Those people have no human feelings.

 

Despite the fact that I’ve not much hope, I registered for JSA because I can’t see other way right now.

I do cope with hanger somehow but this cold paralyses me.

Got appointment DWP on Tue but will call community legal advice centre on Mon for a benefit adviser.

[NinaUp]

..

[NinaUp]

honeybee13, rightsforme, leemack

 

How can I thank you ?!

 

No one word would be good enough to express my feelings…

 

Sorry…