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    • If anybody has any advice here, it would be greatly appreciated, I already suffer with pre-existing disabilities & have struggled with this so far. 
    • so return of goods order etc etc read upload  scan pages to jpg, redact in mspaint. the convert to and merge to one mass PDF  read upload and use the online listed sites for all 3 stages. do you want to keep the car? i will guess this was a manual paper claimform direct from the co.court or was it org sent from salford bulk processing and has just got reaq ssigned?      
    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue –  29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM 1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached  2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00. The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month. 3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement, Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us. Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement 9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate 4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:- a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement  number xxxxxx. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     The total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by First class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges 5.  At the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage. Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024  What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg  
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Hi I hope posting a new thread is ok. I'm still so upset I'm not thinking straight. I was caught today with an item worth a few quid, that I allegedly deliberately did not pay for. I did not admit guilt in fact, I told them it was a genuine mistake. There is cctv evidence as well.

 

What I need to know is this: The store manager took my name and address, and date of birth. I will be getting a letter from RLP soon apparently. How much is this likely to be? Should I ignore the letters? (I do have mental health issues, but if the amount is not that much, I might just pay it in order not to have the worry of a whole "proving" process). I take it you go on the database of death whether or not you pay?

 

Also, if I pay by debit card, will the fact that I have this on my bank details be something to worry about? If so, I will risk paying by postal order. What a mess.

Edited by LadyLa
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Thanks rebel I have tried speed-reading the stickies (not easy when in a state of panic/beating-oneself-up/fear)

 

(posted this reply a minute ago but could not see it, so reposting, apologies for any duplication (again, panic/beating-oneself-up/fear!!)

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Hi Lady

 

Clam down, the guys here will help you deal with this. Stop panicing, stop beating yourself up, and you have nothing to fear. Switch the PC off, listen to some music.

Come back tomorrow. It's happened, we need to manage what happens. It will take them to send any letter, thats if they do.

 

Thanks rebel I have tried speed-reading the stickies (not easy when in a state of panic/beating-oneself-up/fear)

 

(posted this reply a minute ago but could not see it, so reposting, apologies for any duplication (again, panic/beating-oneself-up/fear!!)

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Were the police called, and if so, did they attend and take any action?

 

Hi no the police were not called. However, the female member of staff searched my handbag and more or less accused me of stealing something she found that I'd paid for a week or so ago, which I protested.

 

I gave my name and address, and date of birth to the manager, which I gather I probably didn't need to do, however, I did as I didn't want them to call the police. I remained calm the whole time. (Whilst internally stressed to the max).

 

ps - they also took my loyalty card and key fob and banned me from all stores for one year.

Edited by LadyLa
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If the police were not called, you were not therefore charged and have not been convicted of any offence. You are, in the eyes of the law, entirely innocent of any crime.

 

You may get a letter from RLP demanding money, but as you have done nothing wrong any claim they make is entirely without foundation.

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they had NO legal right to search you or your property NOR take your personal details without a police officer being present.

 

THEY ARE NOT NOR CAN A SECURITY GUARD PLAY AT BEING A POLICEMAN

THEY HAVE NO LEGAL POWERS TO DO ANYTHING TO YOU.

 

totally ignore the RLP leeching letters

and the DCA threats that will come.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thankyou ScarletP and dx100. I have read and re-read info on the CAB website and on this site, and the CAB advises that you can ignore the letters from RLP, however, you are risking their client (the retailer) taking you to court.

 

The retailer has cctv evidence, which IMO is not conclusive, however, I cannot see what they have seen. I edited my original thread opener as I read on here that it is not advisable to give many details on a public forum which is accessed by RLP. Are you 100% certain that, as the police were not called, that there are no grounds for RLP to invoice me? I am not so sure, as the CAB says that the retailer can resurrect a case against you for a long time after if RLP advise them that the invoicee has not paid . I'm very confused.

 

After calling a couple of local CAB's (and being advised that they are seriously understaffed), I may try to get up there tomorrow early and wait in the drop-in queue to get an initial assessment. You cannot get a proper appt until they have assessed you. I am also snowed in at the moment. I have also called a legal helpline who advised me that I would need to speak to someone who could help me with letters to RLP (this would be free from this particular org).

 

ScarletP - You are absoutely certain about your last comment?

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On reflection, if you receive a demand from RLP, you should respond denying any wrongdoing.

 

Probably because of the bad publicity their activities have attracted, RLP have found themselves in the embarrassing position of having to admit that despite all their threats, they haven't actually taken anyone to court for shoplifting - just as they didn't really have the approval of ACPO or the PSNI as their website claimed.

 

RLP are big on making claims they cannot substantiate - see the recent BBC documentary in which RLP's director said that the police were called in all cases, which was promptly then shown to be untrue.

 

Consequently, of late they seem to have started taking a few cases to court - cases they hope will be undefended and they will gain a default judgement, so they can reassure their clients that they do what they claim.

 

If an individual has not committed a crime, then a claim from RLP will be without foundation. Think of it this was - if all anyone had to do was make an accusation, we could all sue whomever we liked for whatever we liked. The fact is that if RLP take someone to court they have to prove their claim to the court.

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On reflection, if you receive a demand from RLP, you should respond denying any wrongdoing.

 

Probably because of the bad publicity their activities have attracted, RLP have found themselves in the embarrassing position of having to admit that despite all their threats, they haven't actually taken anyone to court for shoplifting - just as they didn't really have the approval of ACPO or the PSNI as their website claimed.

 

RLP are big on making claims they cannot substantiate - see the recent BBC documentary in which RLP's director said that the police were called in all cases, which was promptly then shown to be untrue.

 

Consequently, of late they seem to have started taking a few cases to court - cases they hope will be undefended and they will gain a default judgement, so they can reassure their clients that they do what they claim.

 

If an individual has not committed a crime, then a claim from RLP will be without foundation. Think of it this was - if all anyone had to do was make an accusation, we could all sue whomever we liked for whatever we liked. The fact is that if RLP take someone to court they have to prove their claim to the court.

 

Thanks Scarlet P. I have been getting responses from the legal help orgs I contacted - hit a brick wall. All I want is advice in writing a letter if I decide that's what I'm going to do. I have been reading more threads on here, and someone said that the CAB is not that good. I can't get up there anyway due to being snowed in.

 

Just to reiterate, the fact that the police were not called means that this is not a crime, despite the fact that the retailer says they have cctv evidence to prove it is? And, knowing my luck, I would be one of the cases taken to court. I am not sure i have the nerves of steel required to ignore increasingly scary letters, but I guess that's what they hope that vulnerable people will feel.

 

Getting to the point where i think I will just reply with my circumstances and ask them to tell the retailer I can't pay, and it will be dropped. I guess this is admitting liability, but as someone said, I will go on the Database of Doom whatever I do.

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Hi LadyLa

 

I think you need to wait and see what they say and do.

 

Thanks rebel. Judging by the extensive info on here, I can probably predict they will send me an "invoice" (of whatever amount) with a standard-worded letter. It's what I should do after I recieve it that I'm not sure about.

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send the lod if you must do anything.

 

have a look in the stickys at this forums hpmepage.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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thanks dx100- I have looked at many of the stickys but will read again. What is an lod? I'm guess it's "letter of ???" denial?

 

ps - as I have revealed as much as I dare on a public forum, I would have to progress this query privately in order not to implicate myself. If any of the forum expert team would be willing to undertake private messaging, I would be grateful. Otherwise I will try to continue in here.

Edited by LadyLa
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The main thing I am worried about is their cctv evidence. I have read thru more stickies, and noted the one about RLP notices and other documents that other posters on here have signed. I didn't sign anything, I was only given a copy of an RLP notice with my name and address on it that the store manager had written on it. I didn't sign it or anything else. Hmmmm.

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A little information for you here, in the business where I work, the cctv recordings are reviewed routinely, especially when empty packages or security tags are found dumped. This starts where the package is found, then back-tracked until a good image of the thief is found. Mostly, this means a video of the entire visit can be made, from entry into the store until leaving. This video will be kept for as long as considered necessary, and stills will be produced and attached to an incident report. The stills and video will be shown to local police, just in case they know the persons involved. If they can identify the thieves, then a crime report will be raised, and police will take it from there. If not, then the images will be kept for future use, in case the shoplifter returns, and this will help to spot them.

 

The cctv evidence can be minimal or poor quality, depending on the system installed and the coverage obtained. Some systems are very clear, and if coverage is good, you can be in camera view almost every inch of the way around a store. Some shoplifters will look directly at the cameras, or look at staff/ other customers, to see if they are being noticed. This can be clearly seen on cctv! People will also unzip their bags or part the handles to make concealment easier, again, this is a giveaway that they are about to steal, and can be seen via cctv. This can show intent to steal IMO, but people will still deny that it was deliberate. The police will only give a warning, in my area, when a theft is low value and there is no prior involvement with the police for shoplifting. Typically, this is for theft under £10 in value, and they are aware that a civil recovery notice will be issued.

 

You have stated in another thread that you have stolen on other occasions, so I guess it was only a matter of time before you got caught. You might get away with it on a couple of occasions, but you will get caught in the end, as you have found out. Where I work, a previous un- caught offender may come back to the store. They will not be stopped, but will be closely observed to see if they can be caught stealing on this visit. Usually they will, but if they do not steal on this occasion, then they will be left alone. They will be caught eventually!

 

On the subject of RLP, the video is not routinely sent to them, but they can request it if they want. A still photo is usually sent to them with the report. Someone said they are now taking cases to court, but you can take the chance that they won't in your case. If the value was around £4, as you said, and they have not reported any earlier thefts, I would think it unlikely that they would proceed to court in your case. I know you said you felt they owed you, but clearly, stealing is not the way to deal with this.

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Yes, I know it was not the way to deal with it thank you eyeinthesky. I removed the more revealing post that I made on another thread because of High Horse Hammy putting in his 2 pence worth on his soapbox of virtue. I will not do it again, and if I ever feel aggrieved, I will try to deal with it by talking to management (which I did at the time of the tenner being left in the change slot but the manager was unavailable, and the woman I dealt with very hostile).

 

I will post more on here when I recieve the "invoice". I guess it will be delayed because of the weather. I do think there should be deterrents to theft, but there also should be some redress for people when they have to account for every penny, and stores do not play fair. The situation is only going to get worse I think. But thanks for that info.

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Update - nothing yet from RLP (probably still early days), but something strange happened earlier this evening. I had a call from a private number on my mobile. I don't usually pick up witheld numbers, but for some reason, I did this time. I said "hello" a couple of times, and then this pre-recorded message suddenly came on. It was about how to deal with debt and how to write off any debts you have.

 

I hope this is just coincidence, as I didn't give any phone number to the food retailer on the occasion that is the topic of this thread. If it isn't coincidence, I think there are confidentiality issues with data here.

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Hi Lady

 

I can assure you there are no confidentiality issues with this site. It is possible to get marketing calls from debt management calls, there are various ways that they have got hold of your mobile number.

 

If you have any concerns, please contact ADMIN.

 

Update - nothing yet from RLP (probably still early days), but something strange happened earlier this evening. I had a call from a private number on my mobile. I don't usually pick up witheld numbers, but for some reason, I did this time. I said "hello" a couple of times, and then this pre-recorded message suddenly came on. It was about how to deal with debt and how to write off any debts you have.

 

I hope this is just coincidence, as I didn't give any phone number to the food retailer on the occasion that is the topic of this thread. If it isn't coincidence, I think there are confidentiality issues with data here.

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Rebel, thanks for the reply (I worded my last post in a confusing way) but I was referring to RLP's data issues (or the food retailer's), not referring to this site.

 

I gave no phone number to the food retailer, and yet I get a marketing call from a debt management org. After reading some other threads on here to do with RLP and their Database of Doom, it might be that they have passed my info onto credit ref agencies, which are then passed on to debt management companies. I'm trying to work out the data trail here. Everything is connected up these days and somehow, my phone number was obtained by this company. I have never ever recieved a call like this on my mobile. They must have got my number from my name. I hope this is just coincidence.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi there Lady,

your incident is very simular to my own just last week. I was and still am in a state of shock over what i did. Also as with you the police were not called and i was given the option to pay for the item and leave the store, with a ban, which i accepted without argument.

If i do get a letter from RLP, i will not take it laying down, at the end of the day i was given the option to pay for the item and i now hold a receiept for it, however as you point out some retailers still ask RLP to claw back even for more money if they can get away with it.

In my case cctv showed me "acting suspicious ", well i say to RLP if they can show me a shopper that pays for their goods acting in a "normal" manner then i can also show a "suspicious " shopper also paying for their goods ! People act differently for all sorts of reasons, it does not mean they are shoplifters just because the have a bloody twich, for instance.

Anyway i'm gonna see what happens and fight any RLP letter that arrives, if one does, and i suggest you do the same. I'm not being cocky about what i did but i think that if the store allows someone to pay for the item after an "incident" has occured and also bans them, all without calling the police, then that is what the store has decided to do to deal with that "incident", end of matter surely !

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