Off street Council owned NON PUBLIC PCN

[buzby]

Your images MUST be greater in size than 50kb each, as anything less remains a thumbnail and whilst the photograph is seen, the text remains impossible to read.

[chipbutty]

Hi buzby,

I appreciate what you say. Alas.

When I uploaded the pictures the file sizes were shown as 750 kb for one of them and pic PCN A was over 1 meg.

I dont understand why they are being cropped. I will try again, now.

Cheers.

[Michael Browne]

Scan the document into your computer and open it in Paint or similar program. Edit out the personal information and identifying numbers etc.

 

Save it as a jpeg file

Open an a/c on Photobucket, (here: Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket ),or Tinypic here: (TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting )

 

Click the "upload image" box and browse to find the file of your scanned jpeg on your hard disk

 

It will then upload the image to Photobucket and it will show you thumbnails of the images you have uploaded. Under each image there are links that you can copy and paste.

 

Copy and paste the IMG Code link from Photobucket to the reply box on your thread here, which will look like this:

 

When you submit the reply, the link will change into the image you uploaded onto Photobucket.

 

See how to in section 1.16 (Attach Documents) here:

How Do I....? A Dummies Guide to the Forum

[TheBogsDollocks]

From what I can read the PCN is non compliant with what the law requires. Need clearer photos to be certain. Can you answer the question in post 20?

[chipbutty]

Hi,

Thanks for that info,

have tried so here goes.!!

 

Then there's this :- http://i36.tinypic.com/2a9brf7.jpg

Edited August 10, 2010 by chipbutty
adding info

[chipbutty]

Hi I may have gone over board here but not sure without practice.

Please let me know if any sections are missing..

Other links are

 

http://tinypic.com/r/2a9brf7/4

 

http://tinypic.com/r/1zlep1g/4

 

http://i36.tinypic.com/2a9brf7.jpg

http://tinypic.com/r/2a9brf7/4

http://i34.tinypic.com/3d0tt.jpg

 

http://i34.tinypic.com/nmcb6c.jpg

[chipbutty]

Chip here again,

so sorry for duplications. But they are all in there.

Didnt mean to create a flippin jigsaw puzzle.!!!

Cheers

[buzby]

Looks compliant for the frontside - the 'How to Challenge' section will be the one to double check. can we see that?

[chipbutty]

Hi it's this one

http://i38.tinypic.com/1zlep1g.jpg

 

[chipbutty]

I think I will need to challenge /ask for retraction on grounds of forgetfullness about the blue badge, with supporting evidence of copy of badge /certificate

of disability registration. a copy of the photo of the sign that says "MAY get a PCN. Only a one minute interval on the PCN and finally a copy of the ministerial guidelines

" Operational Guidance

to Local Authorities:

Parking Policy and Enforcement

•Discretion

6.16 The Secretary of State considers that the exercise of discretion

should, in the main, rest with back office staff as part of considering

challenges against PCNs and representations against a Notice to Owner

– NtOs. This is to protect CEOs from allegations of inconsistency,

favouritism or suspicion of bribery. It also gives greater consistency in

the enforcement of traffic regulations.

If they refuse then I will pursue on the grounds that there have only been 4 or 5 PCN's issued in the past twelve years and that has only occurred

in the last 2 months.

A custom and practice /vendetta argument.

I feel we need to take this to a tribunal ultimately because any of our neighbours will do this.

I don't think they will like the expenses incurred if we all stick it out.

Cheers to all.

I will update the post when I get a reply.

Your help is very much appreciated.

Cheers

[TheBogsDollocks]

There are other avenues to appeal on. Try this in addition to your points.

 

Dear Sirs

 

I understand that you are of the opinion that I have contravened a restriction governed by a traffic order. I am aware that the legislation enabling a traffic order to be made is the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.

 

Although you accuse me of this contravention you have not provided any evidence that confirms that the restriction is supported by a legally enacted traffic order. Therefore it is necessary for you to provide me with a full copy of the traffic order that you believe has been contravened and I require you to explain fully what article or articles I allegedly contravened and to direct me to the specific entry for the location concerned within the relevant schedule and to explain fully why you believe that I do not qualify for one of the given exemptions within the traffic order. It is paramount that the traffic order includes the preamble and all the articles as well as the schedules and is sealed and dated and accompanied by all maps. If the original order has been amended then it is necessary that these amendments are also provided in full. I will remind you that in the case between Terence Chase v Westminster City Council, the adjudicator emphasised that a council has a legal duty to provide all evidence at the earliest opportunity to an appellant. Failure to do so is considered by the courts to be prejudicial.

 

In addition, I am aware of the provision under section 76(3) of the Traffic Management Act 2004;

 

(3)Civil enforcement officers—

(a) when exercising specified functions must wear such uniform as may be determined by the enforcement authority in accordance with guidelines issued by the appropriate national authority, and

(b) must not exercise any of those functions when not in uniform.

 

The council has provided no evidence that the CEO was wearing a uniform in compliance with section 76(3)(a) and with the guidance given in section 42 of the Secretary of State’s Statutory Guidance;

 

42. When exercising prescribed functions a CEO must wear a uniform. The

uniform should clearly show:

that the wearer is engaged in parking enforcement;

the name of the local authority/authorities of whose behalf s/he is acting;

and a personal identity number.

 

As the wearing of uniform by the CEO is mandatory when serving a regulation 9 PCN, it is reasonable to conclude that an efficient and conscientious enforcement authority will inspect and keep a record of each officer before they begin their patrol to ensure a uniform is worn and that it complies with the guidance. Since it is a mandatory requirement, the burden of proof must remain with the enforcement authority. This principle is supported in the adjudication case between Derek Jack Hayward v London Borough of Croydon. Therefore, I require unequivocal evidence that the officer who served the PCN upon my vehicle was wearing the correct uniform in the correct manner. Without any evidence to the contrary, it is not unreasonable to assert that the PCN was served by the CEO in contravention of section 76(3)(a) thus invalidating the PCN served.

 

I also bring to your attention the important fact that PCN fails to comply with regulations 3(2)(b) and 3(2)(b)(ii) contained within Statutory Instrument 2007/3482 and it is therefore my belief that the PCN is not lawful.

 

3(2) A penalty charge notice served under regulation 9 of the General Regulations must, in addition to the matters required to be included in it under paragraph 1 of the Schedule to the General Regulations, include the following information—

(a) that a person on whom a notice to owner is served will be entitled to make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and may appeal to an adjudicator if those representations are rejected; and

(b) that, if representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified for the purpose before a notice to owner is served—

(i) those representations will be considered;

(ii) but that, if a notice to owner is served notwithstanding those representations, representations against the penalty charge must be made in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.

 

These requirements are repeated in paragraph 8.40 of the DfT published ”Operational Guidance to Local Authorities”;

 

8.40 “A PCN served on the vehicle or to the person who appears to be in charge of

the vehicle (a ‘regulation 9’ PCN) must contain the following information:

 

that, if representations against the penalty charge are received at such

address as may be specified for the purposes before an NtO is served:

 

but that, if an NtO is served not withstanding those representations,

representations against the penalty charge must be in the form and manner

and at the time specified in the NtO."

 

Although the PCN does say that representations will be considered, it fails to make the recipient aware of the period of time they are lawfully entitled to in which to submit such representations. The lawful period is given by regulation 3(2)(b) and it is given as any time before the NtO is served and as such a PCN must convey this fact to the recipient.

 

 

Failure to include this specific statutory information on a PCN could prejudice the recipient and consequently such a failure should not be considered immaterial. For example, a person (where the NtO has not yet been served) may only remember about the PCN on the 30th day after its service and as the PCN only makes reference to “challenges” in sentences that refer either to a 14 day or 28 day period, that person may conclude that it is too late to make representations even though that person is lawfully entitled to make representations at any time before an NtO is served. Thus the failure of the PCN to convey the information given by regulation 3(2)(b) is, or could be, critical to the response of the driver/owner to the PCN.

 

The important purpose of the absent regulation 3(2)(b)(ii) is to explain that should a person receive an NtO while expecting a reply to their informal appeal they should not ignore the NtO but take heed of it and appeal formally in the time specified by the NtO.

 

If a PCN does not make this point then a person waiting for a reply to their informal appeal may ignore the NtO thinking that as an appeal is already being considered there is no point appealing against the NtO until a reply is received against the informal appeal. However, a reply may never arrive and by the time this is realised the statutory time in which to respond to the NtO may have expired.

 

Considering these facts I expect you to cancel this penalty charge forthwith. If you do not cancel then I will require you to explain fully why you think the PCN does comply with regulations 3(2)(b) and 3(2)(b)(ii).

 

Under the provisions of the Traffic Management Act 2004 I am entitled to a submit an appeal that you have a duty to consider and to which you have a duty, should you reject my appeal, to provide me with clear and full reasons in reply to my points of appeal. This duty is set down in the Secretary of State’s Statutory Guidance and the Traffic Management Act 2004 under section 87 clearly advises that local authorities must have regard to this statutory guidance. Therefore should you fail to reply specifically to each point and provide the required evidence then I will be, due to your improper consideration, including a further charge of procedural impropriety when my defence is submitted for adjudication and in addition I will proceed with a formal complaint, regarding your maladministration, to the office of the council’s Chief Executive.

 

Yours with love, hugs and kisses

[chipbutty]

Hi sorry I forgot this ,

answer to question in post 20 is:-

" 14 days , and if rejected another 14 days is usually offered at discount price."

[TheBogsDollocks]

Hi sorry I forgot this ,

answer to question in post 20 is:-

" 14 days , and if rejected another 14 days is usually offered at discount price."

 

LOL........Your answer is proof that the PCN does not convey the correct information and could be potentially prejudicial.

[chipbutty]

Hi , well that is the dogs bollocks, lol..

they do say on the pcn "if the charge is not paid on or before the end of the 28 day period as specified on the front of notice,

or successfully challenged the council may serve a notice to owner etc blah"

does this mean that if you submit a challenge after 14 days and it fails then you dont get the 14 day grace period..?

I must confess your letter is outstanding.

I am trying hard to see if they cover the references you quote,, I will guarantee they won't have a clue

and go running to their legal dept.. ha ha.

I really want to use your wording , do you feel that under hugs and kisses , I should put in my blue badge appeal??

It gives them an easy option. lol.

I don't mind taking all the time in the world with these people. They have made all our lives a misery here.

 

If I have your permission I will draft straight away.

 

Cheers from Chip.

 

P.S No one saw the CEO with his ticket machine... how much does that matter in the letter and scheme of things. should I edit that bit out??

Edited August 10, 2010 by chipbutty
addition

[TheBogsDollocks]

The very fact that on reading the PCN you are left confused is evidence that the PCN is not fit for purpose. Yes, sneak in your blue badge bit at the tail end before the final paragraph.

 

The council would risk having all their PCN's ruled invalid if they let you take this all the way to adjudication. I'd be surprised if they are willing to take a risk of thousands for your few quid.

 

Keep the uniform bit in as it makes life more difficult for the council. It does not matter that no one saw the CEO.

Edited August 10, 2010 by TheBogsDollocks

[buzby]

Sorry, but it makes sense to me. If you send a photocopy of your Blue Badge, and state that you inadvertently did not display it will usually get it waived with a warning note telling you not to do it again. This is preferable that trying to get them on a proceedural imroprietary, take it to an adjudicatior who then sides with the council. You can always use this as your second avenue if the first plan fails.

[chipbutty]

Hi again,

My word you are working 'above and beyond the call of duty'....

How do you feel about all the current residents who have got PCN's , 4 in total, using the same draft.??

If you think they will ignore the challenges as being conspired then it wont be done.

I also think that I may save the blue badge 'cosideration factor' for later should I need further evidence. Or is a legal requirement on my behalf to submit

all evidence now. As they must. But their PCn states" any evidence" not all....!

I'm very grateful and will be sending a donation to the site.

I wish I could buy you a beer.

Cheers. Chip.

[chipbutty]

Crossed the postings as my typing speed is finger and thumb..

 

Wilco, won't use the blue badge... great are you ok with me using your excellent wording..

I can't wait..

[buzby]

Too many beers make my typing much worse!

 

As for the non-BB holders, they have less of a chance as the signage and TRO and Tariff on their website seems compliant. By settling early, they can midigate the full cost of the loss, becasue if they challenge and lose, they will not be offered the discount (which is for early payment only). It really boils doen to if they feel like a gamble, some will and others won't - so a hope that there will be a concerted uprising to discredit the council probably won't happen. Your BB appeal will probably work if it is the first for this area and they treat you sympathetically. I know the area quite well, and when I came down for the eclipse, I was well warned about their treatment of tourists in their Off Street parks, so I arrived at 2000hrs and left at 0700 to avoid confrontations. Shame really, as it probably looked even nicer in daylight!

[TheBogsDollocks]

My personal opinion is to throw everything in an appeal. The more mud thrown then a good chance some will stick and they may also slip up on some and provide you with further appeal points to exploit at the next stage. I expect it will go to the next stage as councils rarely accept an appeal until adjudication looms.

 

I agree with buzby that the blue badge issue may be enough on its own to begin with but it won't invite any council error but it's up to you how you proceed.

 

There is no reason why your neighbour's cannot use the same appeal (minus the blue badge bit) but it is likely the council will take the appeal less seriously.

[chipbutty]

Hi,

OK , for my own clarity .

Do I try the blue badge approach on it's own first.

Or do I attach it at the end of your special.

I really would like to use the letter and attach the BB at end,

 

sorry for being confused.

I bet you want your dinner...

[chipbutty]

Hi,

I have re-considered and will use the lovely letter and save the BB if needed.

This way I will get a measure of their wants in respect of what definitely has been an attack on

the local residents who have used those spaces for twelve years without hinderence.

It is only because a local councillor has moved recently into the accommodation on the private site that this has started to happen ... say no more.

So I will go ahead. Will keep you posted.

 

MASSIVE Respect.

[TheBogsDollocks]

I would include the blue badge bit on the tail end, saving it will gain you nothing. It's your money so your decision though.

[chipbutty]

Cool, will do. I see your point. It's a flimsy thing to throw in later as an encore after such a special show.

Get all up front.

Cheers.

One for the moderators.. Fan ... tastic. sent a donation and very grateful to do so...

[buzby]

A Blue Badge defence will be thrown out at an appeal as it SHOULD have been provided in the first instance, which is why you need to do it in that order, as doing it in reverse means you could lose at each stage with no ace to play.