Welcome and Car Repossession - Recsission of Contract?

[fhall315]

Can anyone help with Welcome Finance please?

 

Have a car with Welcome which I bought in September 2006 on HP Agreement. Original agreement was for 4 years but then they KINDLY offered to reduce my payments as I was struggling and redid the agreement for lower payments but over 10 years! I signed without actually looking at the terms. 2nd agreement does not have any date on it so can't remember when I did this.

 

Anyhow, stuck to payments on new agreement and then fell behind a little, possibly 3 months. Then started paying again. Last couple months renaiged again as lost job. Got a default notice dated 16th July giving me 14 days to remedy - no number date just 14 days. Then got termination of contract letter dated 31st July sent 2nd class post. On Thursday, recovery guys came to get my car which is parked on my private drive diagonally so they can't actually get to it thankfully.

 

Called Welcome to try and negotiate with them but they said no I need to pay full balance or at least full arrears which had gone up by a couple hundred. Told them I can't and they said well hand the car over.

I said can't take it off private drive and they threatened court order to do so. I haven't paid over a third yet. I said I will bring the car back to them but now regret saying it after reading on here.

 

What can I do? I can't lose my car as work nightshifts and need it for work and to get kids to school.

 

Can anyone help please? I haven't got a lot of time.

[beyondhope]

Verbal agreements mean nothing, if there is nothing in writing saying you are handing the car back then dont! They will need a court order to get the car off your drive as you probably already know. Everything needs to be in writing for your protection. Ill send wannabedebtfreesoon over to have a read now as she is in court over a car being taken from her private property

[fhall315]

Hi Beyondhope,

 

That was quick. Thank you. I do know they can't take it but this is Welcome and I do keep expecting to get up one morning and it be gone!. Do you know how long it takes for them to get a court order and if it can be challenged in court first?

 

What I am trying to see is if I can send them a letter or something to put the ball back in their court. I have read through numerous threads and found a few templates but not sure they are relevant to me specifically. Don't want to send off the wrong thing with these guys.

[beyondhope]

Im not really in a position to advise on the whole return of goods order which is why Ive PM'd wannabedebtfreesoon as she is alot more knowledgeable on the subject

 

An SAR will give you everything they hold on you including contracts, statements, computer notes etc I think this may be a good idea to at least get the information of what date you signed the contract and any charges that have been added that can be credited back to the agreement. Problem being this takes time as they have 40days to respond. The template for this is HERE

 

CCA request may be of more use as it takes 14days and will at least give you the contract information of the latest agreement.

 

I cant really advise any further because id hate to give you the wrong information, but standard court documents are along the lines of claim in......given 14 days to submit acknowledgement of service, further 14 days to submit defence (total 28 days) so I would imagine you have a couple of wks to get the ball rolling just my opinion of course

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Hello and welcome to cag

One quick question first- how long did you pay your first agreement for before the rewrite??

[beyondhope]

yay the cavalry are here, I will leave you in wannabe's capable hands ill still be lurking and if i can help ill join in

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

yay the cavalry are here, I will leave you in wannabe's capable hands ill still be lurking and if i can help ill join in

LOL you crazy nutjob! Got your pm

[beyondhope]

LOL you crazy nutjob! Got your pm

 

You havent even seen the email ive sent you and you are calling me a nutjob Im in a good mood today, so today is the day to finalise my AQ Im off to make bacon and mushroom sarnies back soon!!!

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

You havent even seen the email ive sent you and you are calling me a nutjob Im in a good mood today, so today is the day to finalise my AQ Im off to make bacon and mushroom sarnies back soon!!!

I have too!! mmmmm...bacon and mushroom...I'm off to the shops to buy vodka

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Sorry Fhall, I fear we are being a bit inconsiderate It's just that we are familiar with welcome and their puff and bluster, it usually ends up with them getting themselves into a whole heap of bother!

[beyondhope]

I have too!! mmmmm...bacon and mushroom...I'm off to the shops to buy vodka

 

oooo send me some!! ive not even got a bottle of wine!! all I have is the champers I got given at my party but im saving that for a special occasion

[fhall315]

Hi Wannabedebtfreesoon,

 

Thanks for jumping in on this and for the fun and frivolity along the way - makes it all a bit less miserable to deal with, lol. To be honest, I haven't got a clue how much I paid on first agreement although probably a fair bit - was at least a couple years worth. Sorry, I am awful with money and paperwork - not my forte. I did actually wonder if we take the first agreement into account when calculating if paid a third or not. Would they include the overall figure in default notice or just the figure from current agreement?

 

God, I hate this company and hate dealing with them - so cocky and even talking to their manager last week he got himself all twisted up!! Did mention to him that the law allows 2 working days for 1st class and 4 working days for 2nd class (thanks to CAG) and he said it is from the date of Default it is calculated - complete tosh. Also, told me that Recoveries Dept at Head Office didn't have an external email address - rubbish again. Aaaargh!!

 

All help very much appreciated.

[cyril1982]

if you do a sar as advised above you should get a full break down of all payments made towards both the original and modified agreements, this should also give you some rough idea of how long you have been paying, then a good idea is to cross check it with your bank statements, if you have online banking this will be easy if not pm me for details of how to get your statements without having to pay the £10 per statement some banks charge.

 

your more immediate problem is preventing the repo of the car, they can't take it off private property without a court order, if they do you'll be in the same boat as wannabe and you'll have them right where you want them but if you wish to avoid the inconvenience i'd suggest keeping the vehicle on a freinds drive or ideally in a garage.

 

then they will have to seek a court order and you will be able to apply for a time order, this is where again, it's time to hand over to wannabe.

 

out of interest do you know if you have paid one third of the total amount repayable on your agreement?

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Hi Wannabedebtfreesoon,

 

Thanks for jumping in on this and for the fun and frivolity along the way - makes it all a bit less miserable to deal with, lol. To be honest, I haven't got a clue how much I paid on first agreement although probably a fair bit - was at least a couple years worth. Sorry, I am awful with money and paperwork - not my forte. I did actually wonder if we take the first agreement into account when calculating if paid a third or not. Would they include the overall figure in default notice or just the figure from current agreement?

 

God, I hate this company and hate dealing with them - so cocky and even talking to their manager last week he got himself all twisted up!! Did mention to him that the law allows 2 working days for 1st class and 4 working days for 2nd class (thanks to CAG) and he said it is from the date of Default it is calculated - complete tosh. Also, told me that Recoveries Dept at Head Office didn't have an external email address - rubbish again. Aaaargh!!

 

All help very much appreciated.

The law states that if you paid a third on EITHER your first OR your modifying agreement then they cannot repo without a court order, Section 90 of the CCA 1974 will apply. Did you have any insurances on either agreement??

This is a very familiar story, strangely exactly the same happened to me! Only difference is the next step was they employed a different bunch of bully boys who were unscrupulous enough to come on to my property and take the car; now look where that got them!

[fhall315]

Hi Cyril,

 

I will send an SAR off today - that way it will all be a bit clearer in my mind. Wannabe - sorry I don't think I have a third on either agreement although definitely both together!! Thankfully, the recovery guys are actually really nice and don't like Welcome either (their words). They know they can't just take it from my drive and to be honest they wouldn't be able to unless they could drive it off as not only do I have a deep drive I also have a wall right across it! They would cause serious damage if they tried to get their lorry onto it.

 

So, do I also quickly send off a Recission of Contract letter which I have seen Postgg advise some people to do. I want Welcome to know that I am not a pushover! My Default Notice is not number dated just 14 days. I have no insurances on this to claim back as I refused it thankfully.

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Hi Cyril,

 

I will send an SAR off today - that way it will all be a bit clearer in my mind. Wannabe - sorry I don't think I have a third on either agreement although definitely both together!! Thankfully, the recovery guys are actually really nice and don't like Welcome either (their words). They know they can't just take it from my drive and to be honest they wouldn't be able to unless they could drive it off as not only do I have a deep drive I also have a wall right across it! They would cause serious damage if they tried to get their lorry onto it.

 

So, do I also quickly send off a Recission of Contract letter which I have seen Postgg advise some people to do. I want Welcome to know that I am not a pushover! My Default Notice is not number dated just 14 days. I have no insurances on this to claim back as I refused it thankfully.

That's ok, it can't hurt to double check though. A third of the first agreement would've been roughly 16 payments depending on your deposit.

 

Not sure about the recission of contract letter, it's up to you of course, personally I can't see what it would gain as they're too thick to understand anyway! See what others think though.

 

Just whatever you do keep that car off the road or they will snatch it! I suspect their new plan is to wait until the car's on the road then snatch it while you are not looking. I doubt very much they'll go for a court order, it doesn't appear to be something they do very often but I could be wrong. It may end up being down to you to apply for the order if they refuse to negotiate.

[cyril1982]

i wouldn't bother with the recession of contract letter my experience/opinion is that postggg had a habit of jumping the gun on that one.

 

as it's unclear how much you have paid on the agreement and how far off (or over) 1/3rd you are i think it's just a case of trying to avoid/delay repo untill you get your sar back.

 

in the meantime just pay whatever you can towards your monthly payments, even if it's no where near the agreed monthly payment just ring up and insist that they take the payment, if you can, record the calls where you offer payment and make welcome aware at the start of the call that they are being recorded, you will then be able to use this as evidence if you apply for a time order that you have tried to make payment but welcome have refused to take your payments forcing your arrears to increase beyond a realistic level that you would be able to clear.

 

it's not a cast iron defence to a repo but if you can show that welcome refused your offers of payment in order to inflate your arrears it doesn't look as good for them as you refusing to make any payment at all and may help your case for a time order.

 

witholding payment can work in your favour in some cases but it is a high risk strategy and the recession of conract letter postggg has banded about has ben proven to be lacking in any legal basis and pretty much carries no weight legally so you risk shooting yourself in foot if you choose that route.

 

just delay repo, pay what you can, get that sar then come back and see what we can come up with once we have the full facts in front of us.

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

If you make any payments they will need to send you a new default notice as the previous one will be invalid due to overstating of sums due, therefore starting the whole process over again. Depends really on what you want the overall outcome to be.

[fhall315]

Thanks for replies. I have done SAR and now wait for 40 days. Only worrying this is I really need my car and although it is on my drive I still need to drive it around various parts of town which means parking it on public roads. Will they follow me? Will make the usual monthly payment end of this month and see what happens.

[fhall315]

Latest update. Had a call from Welcome this morning to ask when I will be taking car back in to which I replied I won't. She then said we will get repo guys to come and get it and I told her it was on my private drive and they can't. She then said they can take it off my drive. I told her no it's unlawful and she passed me to their very helpful, friendly manager (NOT) who said he will pay the repo guys to sit and watch me until I move it off the drive. I told him I would put it in the garage and he will have to get a court order to get it. He said "Well, that won't be happening, will it?" He then asked me when I will be making a payment? To an agreement that is terminated?

 

I did actually say I would be paying when we get paid on 25th. He then said call us on 25th.

 

It's a real nightmare if I can't use my car but I don't want to go somewhere and come out and find my car gone especially since I have young children!! What is my next move guys - any ideas?

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

They said they can take it off your drive??? Are they seriously still spouting that crap?? I am going to say LOL and I really mean it!!

It's up to you what you want to do now, you can continue paying if you want as that will immediately invalidate the termination or you could apply for a time order.

 

They really said' "well we're not going to do that are we?"???!!!

[fhall315]

Hi Wannabe

 

Yes, they really did say all of that!!! Glad I cheered you up with those little comments.

 

I would really like to keep my car and am happy to continue paying them including extra for arrears and will make that payment on 25th. I presume if they accept this payment it then renders the termination null and void??? Did have a strange call from chap who said he was Progressive Finance asking if he could come and collect the car and I told him that no I will not be handing it over and I thought he was from CTR Recoveries. He was the guy who came to my door on Monday who said he was nothing to do with Welcome???? Think they are playing silly games again. Told him my car is in the garage and will have to get a court order. God, it's like being in a psychological debate quiz thingy!!!

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Playing silly games is all they know how to do! That's one of the reasons they're going down the pan.

If you make any payment the previous default notice will be invalid and you will be in effect not accepting the termination. If they want to terminate again they will have to send you another accurate up to date default and then terminate again.

 

If I were you I'd write and make whatever offer you are happy with and ask that they accept in writing, they are very good at going back on what they say on the phone you need written proof of everything.

 

I am currently suing them for taking my car off my drive so for them to be still saying they can do it is absolutely laughable!! It's just the usual lying, cheating, empty threats that they are well known for!