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    • Honestly you are all amazing on this site, thank you so much for your help and time. ill keep an eye out and only return when i receive a claim letter for sure also, i updated my address with amex and tsb before i even missed payments. the initial address was my family home but i dont reside there. to avoid a bombardment of letters there i have now updated my address, will they send all threats etc to the new address? Or old address?   do you reccomend i send both tsb and amex my update in address via a letter?
    • Your point 4 deals with that and puts them to strict proof .....but realistically they are not in a position to state that within their particulars they were not the creditor at the time of default but naturally assume the OC would have...so always worth challenging and if you get a DJ who knows his onions on the day may ask for further evidence from the OC internal accounts system. 
    • I see, shame, I think if a claim is 'someone was served' then proof of that should be mandatory. Appreciate your input into the WS whenever you get chance, thanks in advance
    • Paper trail off the original creditor often confirms the default and issue of a notice...not having or being able to disclose the actual copy or being able to produce a copy less so. Creditors are not compelled to keep copies of the actual default notice so you will in most cases get a reconstituted version but must contain accurate figures/dates/format.     .    
    • Including Default Notice Andy? Ok, I think this is the best I can do.. it all makes sense with references to their WS. They have included exhibits that dates don't match the WS about them, small but still.. if you're going to reference letters giving dates, then the exhibits should be correct, no? I know I redacted them too much, but one of the dates differs to the WS by a few months. IN THE ******** County Court Claim No. [***] BETWEEN: LC Asset 2 S.A.R.L CLAIMANT AND [***] DEFENDANT ************ _________________________ ________ WITNESS STATEMENT OF [***] _________________________ ________ I, [***], being the Defendant in this case will state as follows; I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in this claim. 1. I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much-reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already written off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income as confirmed in the claimant’s witness statement exhibit by way of the Deed of Assignment. As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights. This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information). The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party. 2. The Claim relates to an alleged Credit Card agreement between the Defendant and Bank of Scotland plc. Save insofar of any admittance it is accepted that the Defendant has had contractual agreements with Bank of Scotland plc in the past, the Defendant is unaware as to what alleged debt the Claimant refers. 3. The Defendant requested a copy of the CCA on the 24/12/2022 along with the standard fee of £1.00 postal order, to which the defendant received a reply from the Claimant dated 06/02/2023. To this date, the Claimant has failed to disclose a valid agreement and proof as per their claim that this is enforceable, that Default Notice and Notice of Assignment were sent to and received by the Defendant, on which their claim relies. The Claimant is put to strict proof to verify and confirm that the exhibit *** is a true copy of the agreement and are the true Terms and Conditions as issued at the time of inception of the online application and execution of the agreement. 4. Point 3 is noted. The Claimant pleads that a default notice has been served upon the defendant as evidenced by Exhibit [***]. The claimant is put to strict proof to verify the service of the above in accordance with s136 and s196 Law of Property Act 1925. 5. Point 6 is noted and disputed. The Defendant cannot recall ever having received the notice of assignment as evidenced in the exhibit marked ***. The claimant is put to strict proof to verify the service of the above in accordance with s136 and s196 Law of Property Act 1925. 6. Point 11 is noted and disputed. See 3. 7. Point 12 is noted, the Defendant doesn’t recall receiving contact where documentation is provided as per the Claimants obligations under CCA. In addition, the Claimant pleads letters were sent on dates given, yet those are not the letters evidenced in their exhibits *** 8. Point 13 is noted and denied. Claimant is put to strict proof to prove allegations. 9. The Claimant did not provide a true copy of the CCA in response to the Defendants request of 24/12/2022. The Claimant further claims that the documents are sufficient to pursue a Judgement and are therefore copies of original documents in their possession. Conclusion 10. Without the Claimant providing a valid true copy of the executed Credit agreement that complies with the CCA, the Claimant has no grounds on which to enforce this alleged debt. 11. The Defendant was not given ample evidence to prove the debt and therefore was not required to enter settlement negotiations. Should the debt be proved in the future, the Defendant is willing to enter such negotiations with the Claimant. On receipt of this claim I could not recall the precise details of the agreement or any debt and sought clarity from the claimant by way of a Section 78 request. The Claimant failed to comply. I can only assume as this was due to the Claimant not having any enforceable documentation and issuing a claim in hope of an undefended default judgment.   Statement of Truth I, ********, the Defendant, believe the facts stated within this Witness Statement to be true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in it’s truth. Signed: _________________________ _______ Dated: _____________________
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Need to get judgment set-aside plus final charging order - please can you help?


mkb
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Letter as amended by CB should do the job mkb

R

 

Thanks - letters been posted recorded delivery so will await their response. Said to hubby that I don't want to pee the judge off but it has to be recognised that I would not be in my current position ie Charging Order on home IF the court had sent me the notice of hearing and this is what is making me so determined to get it put right, with the help of CAG :)

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Letter received from court today enclosing the original judgment dated 18th May. As you will see, they accept my offer but no reference to the instalments I offered, just a forthwith judgment

 

http://a.imageshack.us/img835/3892/36475877.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img405/1724/37397862.jpg

 

 

 

As you can see by the letter, they are investigating my complaint.

 

Anything more I can do at this point?

Edited by cerberusalert
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The Order would seem to indicate that YOU offered to pay the full amount forthwith and that is what they accepted.

 

If you can show otherwise you must make an application to have that Order set-aside on those grounds.

Edited by cerberusalert
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So will the fact that I submitted an offer of instalments on a form N9a be sufficient to get the order set-aside?

 

I can show a copy of the original letter to both courts and claimant which has the following in it:

 

I enclose Form N9A with an offer of monthly payments.

The information has also been forwarded to the Claimants Solicitors.

 

 

I also have a copy of the N9a which I saved when I posted the letters above.

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Yep :-)

 

But wait for others to confirm but I would say that the fact that the Order says the offer is accepted payment due forthwith means that the offer 'on the table' was forthwith payment.

 

Your N9a clearly shows that was not the case and therefore the Order is wrong (or at least flawed)

 

I would get yourself down to a sols as well and get a 'free consultation' as this is a *real* mess :(

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Thanks gh :)

This needs to be done by yours truly since the free consultations will not begin to unravel the chaos here, lol and sadly, legal aid has been denied and Income Support doesn't stretch far enough to cover sols bills :(

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I meant advice about this specific issue rather than the 'underlying problem'

 

The consequences of the 'error' wherever that was made and by whoever have been serious for you.

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Reply from court received today:

 

 

http://a.imageshack.us/img36/710/replyfromcourtrecomplai.jpg

 

 

So, does [i]incorrectly updated[/i] mean that they admit to not sending me the documents in which case, a set-aside should surely be a formality or is that me being too optimistic?

 

How should I proceed guys?

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you need to apply for a 'stay of execution' like NOW

 

Hopefully it is still with the local Court

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IMHO that is the urgent issue, then deal with the set aside hearing as you will have time for that

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you need to apply for a 'stay of execution' like NOW

 

Hopefully it is still with the local Court

 

Sorry but I dont know what this means - helpppp

 

Have googled it but it doesn't really explain what this means in my position :(

 

Heres the Final CO sent after the hearing on 6th, in which the judge also ordered monthly payments of £15 but theres no mention of this on the Order

 

coorder.jpg

 

This is all such a mess........

Edited by mkb
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Ok, I am not up of final charging orders and exactly what they mean or whether the claimant can still try and enforce the judgment in other ways as well.

 

BUT the fact that the letter mentions it means IMHO you MUST do it.

 

A stay of execution will stop any application for sale or the bailiffs or whatever the claimant wants to try.

 

Very straightforward, make an N244 app with £40 unless you are exempt (see EX160) asking for a 'stay of execution'

reasons being hearing for a varying of terms AND that you are going to apply to have the original judgement set-aside set aside hearing

 

jmho

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I did apply for variation prior to final CO hearing and the claimants rejected my offer hence another hearing listed for early Sept (although this shouldnt have been necessary since the judge ordered it at the final CO hearing) :?

Edited by mkb
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right.

 

I thought the original point of all this was to get the original judgement set aside so that you could defend teh original action?? Is that not right??

 

The hearing is to hear your variation application as the other side rejected it.

 

The stay of execution is to stop the claimant from taking FURTHER enforcement action, such as instructing High Court bailiffs to call etc.

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right.

 

I thought the original point of all this was to get the original judgement set aside so that you could defend teh original action?? Is that not right??

 

Yes, even tho I admitted the claim, I did not get the paperwork which ordered a hearing prior to the judgment being made, hence a forthwith judgment, again which I was not posted.

 

The hearing is to hear your variation application as the other side rejected it.

 

 

The stay of execution is to stop the claimant from taking FURTHER enforcement action, such as instructing High Court bailiffs to call etc.

 

I didnt know this could happen, especially since our home is in joint names etc

 

I will download an N244 tonight and get it lodged at court tomorrow but will probably be asking for your opinions before I do :)

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Couldnt finish this last night as site went down :(

Comments on my proposed N244 would be most helpful :)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Q3 - I wish to apply for an order to set aside the judgment made on 1st June 2010 which was made after a hearing took place.

 

Owing to administrative errors by the Court, I was not notified of this hearing and could not attend.

 

I also request a stay of execution, preventing any enforcement action until the outcome of this application is known.

 

Q4 No

Q5 At a hearing?? Dont know if this is right??

Q6 15 mins??

Q8 DJ

Q9 Other side?? Is this necessary??

Q10 evidence set out in box below:

 

Owing to the Courts administrative errors, I was not served with any documents - these were sent to the claimants solicitors in the mistaken belief that those solicitors were representing me.

As a result of these errors, I was unaware that a hearing had been set for 1st June at which Judge xxxxxx made a forthwith judgment against me. As I had already submitted a form N9a requesting time to pay, it would appear that this judgment is flawed.

Subsequent enforcement has also taken place which I believe would not have happened if it were not for the courts errors.

I have been severly prejudiced by the judgment through no fault of my own.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

What do you think? Is this good enough?

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At a hearing will cost you £75.00, without a hearing £40.00

 

Although if you are exempt from fees then I guess it doesnt matter :)

 

Perhaps 30 minutes time

 

What is Q9 in respect of.. ? The other side should be sent a copy of the application if that is what you are asking.

 

Looks ok to me :)

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Ok, I am not up of final charging orders and exactly what they mean or whether the claimant can still try and enforce the judgment in other ways as well.

 

BUT the fact that the letter mentions it means IMHO you MUST do it.

 

A stay of execution will stop any application for sale or the bailiffs or whatever the claimant wants to try.

 

Very straightforward, make an N244 app with £40 unless you are exempt (see EX160) asking for a 'stay of execution'

reasons being hearing for a varying of terms AND that you are going to apply to have the original judgement set-aside set aside hearing

 

jmho

 

You seem to be applying for a set-aside ......

 

Now, this is JMHO BUT I would apply for a 'stay of execution' £40 without hearing

 

THEN

 

sort yourself out and apply for a set-aside

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Ok, this is my thinking.

 

The claimants have a forthwith judgement - they have 'secured' it with a charging order

 

Now AFAIK there is nothing stopping them from enforcing the forthwith judgement using High Court bailiffs to basically turn up unannounced and demand payment 'forthwith'

 

hence why I think a stay of execution would be a good idea (and so does the Court going by the letter)

 

the fact there is a hearing or you apply for a set aside WILL NOT STOP enforcement of the existing judgement - been there done that :-(

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Managed to speak with a solicitor yesterday who said that it would be pointless asking for set aside since I withdrew my original defence :(

 

He also said there is no possible way to set aside a CO on its own - its original judgment or nothing :(

 

So I'm gonna have this CO for as long as we own our home but would be paid off if we sell or would be 3rd in line after 1st mortgage, 2nd secured loan (from same lenders as 1st mortgage) in the event we were repossessed or went through mortgage rescue (a very real possibility).

 

He said that the hearing due in Sept is because the claimants rejected my offer but that the judge must order the payment in line with my ability to pay.

 

THEN I read what gh2008 said about HCEO's and now all in a dither again :confused::eek:

 

What power do HCEO's have and are they allowed even if I am paying in accordance with court order??

 

I found this on the HCEOA.org.uk website:

 

What judgments can the High Court Enforcement Officer execute?

 

The High Court Enforcement Officer can execute:

Any High Court Judgment or;

Any County Court Judgment where the amount to be enforced is £600 or more and the original claim did not arise from the Consumer Credit Agreement.

I have highlighed the bit about CCA since this debt is a CCA regulated loan and need to check whether this means I'm safe :???:

Edited by mkb
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Managed to speak with a solicitor yesterday who said that it would be pointless asking for set aside since I withdrew my original defence :(

 

He also said there is no possible way to set aside a CO on its own - its original judgment or nothing :(

 

So I'm gonna have this CO for as long as we own our home but would be paid off if we sell or would be 3rd in line after 1st mortgage, 2nd secured loan (from same lenders as 1st mortgage) in the event we were repossessed or went through mortgage rescue (a very real possibility).

 

He said that the hearing due in Sept is because the claimants rejected my offer but that the judge must order the payment in line with my ability to pay.

 

THEN I read what gh2008 said about HCEO's and now all in a dither again :confused::eek:

 

What power do HCEO's have and are they allowed even if I am paying in accordance with court order??

 

I found this on the HCEOA.org.uk website:

 

What judgments can the High Court Enforcement Officer execute?

 

The High Court Enforcement Officer can execute:

Any High Court Judgment or;

Any County Court Judgment where the amount to be enforced is £600 or more and the original claim did not arise from the Consumer Credit Agreement.

I have highlighed the bit about CCA since this debt is a CCA regulated loan and need to check whether this means I'm safe :???:

 

 

You are not safe I don't think. HCEOs can visit or call round any time they want and can take possession of your car, property etc and sell it. They cannot currently force entry into a private home some keeps your windows and doors shut!

 

Once the redetermination haering has happened hopefully the DJ will set an instalment rate of payment and as long as you pay it every month on time no further action should be able to be taken, including sending round the HCEOs.

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Thanks ganymede.

 

My plan now is to ring the court on Monday to check whether the payment ordered by judge at CO hearing was recorded because if it was, a payment will be due (and paid) before the redetermination hearing in Sept.

I'm also thinking that it may be prudent just to make that payment regardless since the judge may be inclined to look favourably upon me (for a pleasant change :lol:) if I have paid it even if it was an informal agreement at the CO hearing.

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Please mkb you MUST apply on Monday for a stay of execution. I have been there - check my threads

 

It is *very* straightforward if you catch it whilst it is still at the local court - it gets more difficult (as it did with me) if it gets to the HCEOs

 

Do that and THEN we can all look at the set aside (don't believe the sols word 100% as I think you will be able to show that with the bad advice and confusion you were badly prejudiced and therefore your voice should be heard)

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The payment was not ORDERED else it would appear on the Order - the payment was refused by the other side and therefore the payment is due forthwith i.e. on demand

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Please mkb you MUST apply on Monday for a stay of execution. I have been there - check my threads

 

It is *very* straightforward if you catch it whilst it is still at the local court - it gets more difficult (as it did with me) if it gets to the HCEOs

 

Do that and THEN we can all look at the set aside (don't believe the sols word 100% as I think you will be able to show that with the bad advice and confusion you were badly prejudiced and therefore your voice should be heard)

 

Thanks gh.

 

I don't have a clue what I should be putting on the N244 tho - please can you tell me?

 

Would this mean that nothing could happen prior to the re-determination hearing?

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