County Court Claim form received - Cabot ***WON***

[Brassed off]

So the Agreement is terminated anyway if there are no T&Cs? Is that right? Do I write back to Morgans or just submit an embarrassed Defence to the Court? Any ideas where I go from here anyone?

[car2403]

They are claiming arrears only, but the last paragraph asks for proposals to pay the Account Balance - Freudulent slip, or is this a notice of termination?

[car2403]

I haven't seen what they've sent, but I'd say that an embarrassed defence is still relevant - what they seem to have sent isn't enough to bring a claim on, so the embarrassed defence still stands.

 

You'll need to work through it, line by line, now they've responded, though, so it makes sense.

 

Plenty of time before Tuesday

[Brassed off]

They are claiming arrears only, but the last paragraph asks for proposals to pay the Account Balance - Freudulent slip, or is this a notice of termination?

 

Perhaps they're just wondering if I'll notice ! But no T&C's and asking me to ring? I bet they didn't send a copy of that letter to the court!

 

I haven't seen what they've sent, but I'd say that an embarrassed defence is still relevant - what they seem to have sent isn't enough to bring a claim on, so the embarrassed defence still stands.

 

You'll need to work through it, line by line, now they've responded, though, so it makes sense.

 

Plenty of time before Tuesday

 

Any idea where I can find an embarrassed Defence to edit? It has to be at NCCBC by Tuesday and I'm really not sure where to start. I don't understand all the legal jargon so not sure what I should be quoting.

 

I can list what they've sent if that helps? There are quite a few bits of copied stuff which is just illegible.

[Mr Blue Sky]

Bo has asked me to post on her behalf.

 

She has received:-

 

Photocopied Agreement

Statement of Account from Cabot showing interest at 12%

Photocopied Account Sale Agreement between Kings Hill (No 1) Ltd and the OC with lots of information blacked out

Photocopy of a Goodbye Letter (standard letter with no details on)

Photocopy of a Hello Letter (again standard letter with no details on)

Photocopy of a blank Agreement from the OC

Photocopy of what may have been T&Cs but totally unreadable

[cymruambyth]

Does this help?

1. I, XXXX of XXXXX make this statement as my defence to the claim brought by XXXXX.

 

2. The claimant’s particulars of claim are vague and fail to disclose any cause of action; they appear to be an abuse of the process in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR, even allowing for the constraints of the bulk issue system.

 

3. No documents supporting the claims in the particulars have been offered and despite two requests to the claimant for further information via CPR 31.14 dated XXX 2009 and XXXX 2009, both sent by recorded delivery, none has been forthcoming and as a result I cannot plead in defence to the claim.

 

4. Without clarification of the claimant’s claim, the defendant is extremely disadvantaged and as the claimant’s claim appears without merit, the defendant asks to be allowed to submit a fully particularised defence should the claimant provide copies of the original documents he will rely upon.

 

5. Further to the above 4 paragraphs, the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.

 

Statement of truth

I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true.

I am the Defendant.

 

Signed:

XXXX

XXXX 2009

[car2403]

I don't think it does, Cymru, as documents have been provided?

 

I'd really need to see if the agreement is enforceable, if the DN/TN were accurate and whether the statements/interest, etc, are all right before commenting further.

 

I can't help but think a full defence is necessary, now, seeing the list of documents that they've provided.

 

There is an argument that you don't have enough time to prepare a defence - if might be worth calling (always get some confirmation in writing, afterwards, though) them and asking for extra time to file a defence? You can say that they have provided the documentation you asked for very late in the day and you don't feel, as a litigant in person, that you can submit a suitable defence in time for Tuesday. If they don't agree to a delay, I'd submit an embarrassed Defence, but that needs some work to say documents have been provided, but you require further time to consider your position now that you've seen them. Hopefully they will consent to a delay, which will make things a lot easier, though.

[Mr Blue Sky]

Thanks Cymru but documents have been provided. Just not all of them.

 

Car, Bo says there was no Default Notice provided as they state in their letter above that they don't need to issue a Default Notice before proceedings were commenced. There is no Termination Notice either.

 

Bo is going to e-mail Morgans and let me know what they say so I can post up their reply (she can't ring them as she's at work). Will that be OK?

[car2403]

Yeah, but it might need a shove to get them to reply - if not, we'll need the weekend to pull something together to get off for Monday, so it's a bit tight.

[Mr Blue Sky]

Would it be an idea for her to contact the court instead to ask for advice?

[car2403]

The Court won't give you advice. They'll tell you that you need to make an application for the Judge to consider - we already know that.

 

What we're trying to do is get the other side to agree to a course of action, in which case the Court should just rubber stamp it as a given.

 

If the other side disagree, or won't allow it, then there's more work involved to one extent or another.

 

Either way, this is time critical, so if you can't get agreement, we'll have to act without it - in which case we have this weekend to pull something together, ready for Monday.

[cymruambyth]

Hi car, i wasn't sure if a variation of the embarrassed defence would work as BO states that the letters were blank with no details on, blank CCA and illegible t&cs.

[Brassed off]

Hi everyone

 

Thanks for your input

 

I e-mailed Morgan's but didn't get a reply. Car, as it's going to be very tight to get something together for Monday, perhaps I could make an application to the court for more time? Obviously, I would have to do this on Monday but to be honest, I can't see it being a problem. Morgans really have left it very late and aren't responding to my e-mail. What do you suggest?

 

Cymru, if you look at Mr Blue's post #30, I did get an Agreement which is filled in even though they state they don't have to provide it (it didn't mention Agreement in the POC). There was a blank agreement in with all the photocopied stuff behind though.

[car2403]

Hi car, i wasn't sure if a variation of the embarrassed defence would work as BO states that the letters were blank with no details on, blank CCA and illegible t&cs.

 

No, the embarrassed defence would only be relevant where no documentation had been provide - if the documents provided were blank, the defence would be that there is no enforceable agreement, not that there was no agreement at all.

 

I e-mailed Morgan's but didn't get a reply. Car, as it's going to be very tight to get something together for Monday, perhaps I could make an application to the court for more time? Obviously, I would have to do this on Monday but to be honest, I can't see it being a problem. Morgans really have left it very late and aren't responding to my e-mail. What do you suggest?

 

Cymru, if you look at Mr Blue's post #30, I did get an Agreement which is filled in even though they state they don't have to provide it (it didn't mention Agreement in the POC). There was a blank agreement in with all the photocopied stuff behind though.

 

What is your defence, then?

[Brassed off]

What is your defence, then?

Not sure how much to post up on here so will PM you when I work out how to do it! Sorry the new forum software is throwing me slightly!

[RobinWayRobinme]

It seems to me that claimant have not provided all docs you requested until the 11th hour and still haven't produced a copy of t&c's and therefore putting you at a severe disadvantage. Was the copy docs requested under CPR 31.14? I appreciate there is little time to file a defence, but it seems that you do in fact need more time. Why not contact them Monday and try to get their agreement to an extension of time to file your defence under CPR 15.5

 

15.5

(1) The defendant and the claimant may agree that the period for filing a defence specified in rule 15.4 shall be extended by up to 28 days.

 

(2) Where the defendant and the claimant agree to extend the period for filing a defence, the defendant must notify the court in writing.

 

If they agree, fine. If not you could request an extension by application, telling claimant you will do so and claim costs.

Just another suggestion to give some more time to prepare a proper defence.

R

[Brassed off]

Hi Robin

 

I sent the combined CPR 31.12 and 16.4 (2) which 42man posted the link to in post #19.

 

I agree though, they have left it far too late to provide documentary evidence and there are no T&Cs (well there is something that resembles T&Cs but is totally unreadable). I have a lot of paperwork to go through this weekend before I would be anywhere near in a position to even attempt a Defence.

 

If I can't get in touch with Morgans on Monday or they don't reply to my email, then I will have to contact the court and make an application for an extension of time.

[RobinWayRobinme]

I agree. If you can't contact them on Monday and you have to seek an extension by application, it would be good if you had a copy letter that you had sent to claimant on or a day or two after receipt of their last letter asking for the extension of time due to thir delay in providing documents and they still haven't fully complied etc., and that if they didn't agree to the extension of time you would be forced to obtain it by application and seeking your costs of doing so. Get my point.

R

[Brassed off]

I can provide a copy of my email today but I agree, a letter would be better. I'm taking my printer/scanner in to the repairers tomorrow and if I get it fixed in time, I will type up a letter to Morgans and get it sent off tomorrow.

 

I get your point ;-)

[Brassed off]

Printer totally bust I'm afraid but I can get a letter printed off tomorrow at friends.

 

Anyone know how I apply for an extension of time if I can't get hold of Morgans on Monday? I work full time so it's going to be tricky.

 

I've been reading quite a few Cabot court threads and it seems that they do say that they are claiming the arrears only. But if the Agreement is terminated on assignation, how can they claim arrears and interest unless it's an Absolute Assignment?

[gh2008]

Ah, another of the wonderful Cabot claims where they are claiming that the account was never terminated and therefore they are simply claiming the arrears.

 

Have they (or the OC) carried on sending you monthly statements (as would have been agreed in the original T&Cs) as if the account is still live then they should have been.

 

Have they at least sent regular notices as per S86(a-c)

 

It is still not too late to S78 Cabot if the account is still live .....

 

You also need to put Cabot to strict proof that the assignment was absolute as they usually only buy the rights rather than the account as a whole. (They will deny they are the creditor and refer any S78 request for instance back to teh OC .... well if they own it 100% it has nothing to do with the OC has it ....)

 

jmho

[Brassed off]

Hi gh

 

I replied to your post earlier but it's disappeared !

 

No I don't get monthly statements from anyone. I've never seen the T&Cs either. Cabot have been sending their usual "cough up or else" letters though!

 

The Assignment is not Absolute as they are going back to the OC for a SOA and T&Cs. They've said that in the letter from Morgans posted earlier.

 

This is a loan agreement not a credit agreement.

[Brassed off]

I was going to edit but I can't

 

It is a fixed Credit Agreement so CCA still applies !

[RobinWayRobinme]

You say the assignment is not an absolute assignment, therefore it must be an equitable assignment. Has the OC joined Cabot in the claim because if not cabot cannot bring the claim alone

R

Hi gh

 

I replied to your post earlier but it's disappeared !

 

No I don't get monthly statements from anyone. I've never seen the T&Cs either. Cabot have been sending their usual "cough up or else" letters though!

 

The Assignment is not Absolute as they are going back to the OC for a SOA and T&Cs. They've said that in the letter from Morgans posted earlier.

 

This is a loan agreement not a credit agreement.

[gh2008]

Agree with RWR - that's what my point was leading to.

 

Check out S86© and S86(d) I think for non-compliance.