My Toyota Problem ongoing but thoughts welcome

[fizzer123]

Hi thought i would share my story with you all, its a long story but i will condense it

Using the Government scrappage scheme i bought a Toyota Iq2 (1st march)

because of the Pedal problems with Toyota when buying this car we specifically requested a car that would not be affected and asked about the build date because we know the cars possibly affected were built up to early december 2009,

On a number of occasions we asked about the build date and were fobbed off and made to feel pedantic

we were told the car would be no more than 12 weeks old

 

1st March, collected car, found the Interior plastics were very badly scratched it was agreed these would be changed later in the week

The leather seats looked dry and wrinkled they said looks fine to us but if you are not happy they would be covered under warranty

 

The following day i found the car was vibrating when i drove over 50mph and that the Window seal was twisted and folded in on itself

 

car went in for the plastics, seal and wheel balancing

 

Over the next few days thats when things really went down hill

we found

The car was Built in 2008 ()

The rain Sensing Wipers did not work

Leather seats have loose stitching, very dry and wrinkled

Car still vibrates over 50mph

Air conditioning unit makes very loud Whooshing sounds

A clip is missing from the front window demister vent

Window seal was not fixed and is twisted again

cars maximum mpg readout is 60 should be 99.9

Short Dated Tyre compressor

I have a Warranty and service manual for a Prius !!

I have a service plan for a 2009 model with 1,000 miles on the clock?

I do not have a signed pre-inspection/ quality certificate

There is also rust underneath the car

Every time i look at the car i find something else wrong with it

 

Now the fun begins, spoke to the dealership and Toyota uk, there response was to say sorry the cars a bit old can take a while to arrive from Japan but it does come with a 3 year warranty

 

We spoke to Trading standards Consumer direct ect they all said the same Misrepresentation and Sales of goods act

 

Again to cut a long story short The dealership don't want anything to do with the car, They wont fix the faults, we have to take it to another dealership, and the first faults they did try to fix apparently was a goodwill gesture

This is a large dealership who owns the 3 local ones in my area

 

Obviously we have seen our solicitor and rejected the car which has not been driven for 9 weeks now

The dealership couldn't care less, Totally ignore the sales of goods act

We are still stuck with the faulty "old" car

Oh and apparently we didn't buy a new 2010 car we just bought a 2010 reg !!!!

 

They are so good at avoiding answering your questions

We are waiting for the response to our last solicitors letter which is asking them to replace the car with a new 2010 built car free from defects

Judging by past response it will be a no

So then it looks like we may have to take them to court just to exercise our consumer rights

 

Its a total nightmare,

Looking at websites like this its frightening the amount of people having big problems with new cars and thats ignoring second hand cars

I really wish there was more we could do

 

We did everything we should ie writing to dealership, how to reject ect and in our case its got us absolutely nowhere and i am driving around in a hired van with a rather expensive lump of metal sat on the drive

 

Thanks for reading if you got this far

Edited May 16, 2010 by fizzer123
adding more info

[Conniff]

Has you solicitor advised you any further?

 

What you now do is to send them a recorded delivery letter rejecting the car and giving them 10 days to come and collect it and reimburse you every penny that it has cost you.

 

After 10 days, you send them a 'Letter Before Action' enclosing a copy of your first letter and again giving them 10 days.

 

If you don't get a favourable response, then you go ahead and take it to court.

[sailor sam]

I echo the advice from Conniff.

 

However I am a little suprised you went for a Toyota when you are obviously aware of their recent publicity where there are plenty of other makes around.

 

Having said that, the car is obviouslly not fit for the purpose so you should be covered under the SOGA. The fact the car was built in 2008 will not be an issue however, a new car begins 'life' when it is registered for the first time which is when all the warranties kick in.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[Conniff]

Agree their life begins at registration, but in this case fizzer was told it would be no more than 12 weeks old, so that is a point to make as well.

 

It's also a pain in the proverbial when you want spares that have been modified and your not sure of the year. Plus software updates etc; that have cured running problems.

 

I would still go for a Toyota with problems than a French car that will eventually have every problem known and they won't want to know.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Conniff

[sailor sam]

Very true but if it goes to court (unless the '12 weeks old' claim can be poven) the date of manufacture will be irrelevant.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[Conniff]

I edited and added half a dozen bits to that post and still didn't make it clear. I meant mention it to the dealer. It must be Ovaltine time.

[fizzer123]

we have done everything you have mentioned

Initial rejection letter was rejected by them they said they were not responsible it was toyota GB fault as they had provided them with that car

we get in touch with Toyota GB who waste yet more time but to be fair its not there responsibility

 

Realise we are getting nowhere so see a solicitor

Sent a pre action protocol letter rejecting the car under the sales of goods act

Reply was pretty bad they do not mention anything to do with the cars faults or wrong paper work, without this paper work i cant even sell the car

 

Because of our plan of action one final letter has been sent asking for them to replace the car and pay costs and a small token of compensation

we are waiting for this reply

 

The biggest problem is we have a car with faults that they will not fix, they fail to acknowledge the faults and the incorrect documents

They have stated they are not in a position to correct cosmetic defects (non of the faults are cosmetic)

Then they state all faults have been rectified , Then they state the faults were fixed as a goodwill gesture !!

AArgh feel like we are banging our heads against a brick wall

 

Regarding the cars age, yes i agree not a lot can be done about that

when test driving the car and after ordering we asked on numerous occasions the cars build date, i don't think thats unreasonable in light of the circumstances

we were told they would let us know this,

Suddenly on a sunday morning i had to go down to the dealerships because there was a problem caused by us wanting to know the build date

They could not clarify this information for us but the transporter was now booked and it would be unfair to cancel it we had 1 hour to make a decision did we want the car or not

 

To make this decision we relied upon the rep stating the car would not be more than 12 weeks old ( this would take the car out of the build dates of those affected) and the toyota pedal recall site on inputting the vin number stated the car was a 2010 Iq and not affected by the recall

 

Bad judgement on our behalf, we should not have allowed them to pressure us the way they did and we should not have relied upon both of those bits of information we now know how easy it really was to find out the build date,

 

Most of the faults we are having are because the car is one of the original models ie the scratched plastics, the short dated tyre compressor, the incorrect mpg , the aged leather seats

The problems with the air conditioning, wheel balancing, rust is probably because the cars been sat for over a year

The car build date falls within those affected by the pedal re-call to date i do not know if the pedal has actually been checked or changed or even if its safe to drive

apparently the recall site when is said the car was a 2010 car it actually meant the registration date !! so does that mean the build date has been overlooked, its very confusing

 

I will stop waffling now i even bore myself with it all lol

[sailor sam]

You are obviously dealing with a dealer who knows very little about his obligations under the SOGA. This hopefully will be a expensive lesson for them!

 

As you mention, this is not between Toyota GB and yourself as your contract is with the dealer. It is for him to take the matter up with the manufacturer. Lets be fair to Toyota; the dealer may have had this car in stock for many months and is trying to pull a fast one! I know it happens because I use to work for a large Ford dealership where it wasn't unusual for cars to have been in stock for over 6 months.

 

Having said that, Toyota will be very keen to re-establish it's reputation so i'm a tad suprised they are not moving heaven and earth on this although we don't know whats happening between them and their dealer.

 

From what you have posted, it is clear that sooner or later the dealer will either end up in court unless they refund your money in full. I persoanlly would not accept any other offer after the way you have been treated. I would force a full refund and let them take this pile of junk off your hands so you can go and buy a decent car. My advice therefore is concentrate on a full rejection of the vehicle using the faults you have listed as the dealer has quite clearly stated that they are not prepared to do anything.

 

Please keep us posted.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[Conniff]

Yep again with what Sam has said. You have a reasonable time in which to reject and then you are deemed to have accepted. The reasonable time rarely goes past 2 months, but the 'reasonable' can be decided by a court and they have upheld a rejection after 2 years. It was on a boat, but is still relevent, thought I can't remember how high the court was.

 

This is purely between you and the seller, no one else and you might even send them a copy of the regulations if they are trying to shy away from them.

 

You should chronicle everything that has happened from the day you made your first visit to the showroom so that nothing can be forgotten or overlooked.

 

Try not to go and see them or talk on the phone, you need a hardcopy of what is being said, that is the only way you can inisist they have attempted to take away or reduce your rights.

[fizzer123]

I would naturally prefer all of my money back but to do that its pretty clear court is the only option,

This last letter is a last chance to prevent that happening

If they do give me a new car i wont be happy and will sell it on i feel my relationship with toyota is over and i will not be driving around advertising there cars

 

I am also surprise with Toyota GB and if i get a negative response from the dealership i will be writing to them again to see if they wish to intervene before going to court

 

How i see it is, what i am doing is trying my best to solve the situation so the courts can be confident we had no choice but to take it to them

 

I am very aware of how timely it is to take them to court and costly if i lost

naturally i don't want to go to court but its looking like i have no choice

 

I have no idea why they think the sales of goods act is irrelevant to them

This last letter is again focussing on the sales of goods act and the faulty/missing issues

Theres nothing else to distract them from the basic facts so no opportunity to skirt around other issues

But the downside is if they do give me a new car then im stuck with it, but then again maybe i could still refuse that offer hmm i wonder....

I certainly would not look forward to the collection day it would take hours for me to be satisfied its ok

 

This dealership owns the 3 local dealerships and i would have to travel 30miles to use the nearest neutral one

[fizzer123]

Forgot to mention we formally rejected the car in writing 14 days from collection

[sailor sam]

When writing to Toyota GB, indicate your total dis-satisfaction with the whole Toyota experience and enclose a copy of the letter you send to the dealer.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[fizzer123]

Got an update ..... and its good,

 

As i mentioned we sent the last solicitors letter asking them to replace the vehicle, the reply to that letter was they would not replace the vehicle as they deemed the contract to be fulfilled,

But on the same day that letter was received the solicitor took a phone call from the dealership, They said they reject liability but to put an end to the matter would purchase the car back from us, this was a one off offer and no negotiations would be made, they offered the full cost of the car less the scrappage allowance and £500 towards the car scrapped, they would not contribute towards the solicitors costs

 

I have no idea why suddenly this offer was made ,maybe somebody else had a look at the letters or maybe they finally got legal advice themselves

 

So after some thought we decided to accept the offer because overall the loss to us works out at about £500, which i think is worth it to bring the matter to an end

 

This morning we received the cash and they have collected the vehicle,

Sadly it only needed a battery jump to get it started i would have loved to have seen them tow it away

It was the manager who came he barely spoke LOL

 

I am so relieved its over with and i have ordered a new Mini that will have a June 2010 build date stamped under the bonnet !!

 

Many Thanks

melissa

[sailor sam]

Great news! Just goes to show what you can get if you stick to your guns. They obviously didn't want to go to court!!

 

If we helped, please tickle the members scales... including mine!

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

Edited June 25, 2010 by sailor sam

[fizzer123]

Lol tickle the members scales had me confused for a while, off to tickle some more

[Conniff]

That's wonderful news, just make sure you check the stamp before handing over those hard earned pennies.

[fizzer123]

We have told them about the previous problems so they know this time collection will take a very long time,

They will be showing us the pre-delivery inspection and going over it again with us

I will be checking every inch of the car, all the functions, the documents ect

and this time if theres anything wrong no matter how small im not taking it home until its perfect

[Conniff]

And don't forget you want a big bunch of flowers for the wife on the front seat when you collect it.

[fizzer123]

And don't forget you want a big bunch of flowers for the wife on the front seat when you collect it.

 

 

 

A big bunch of flowers would be nice perhaps i could mention that to my husband !!

[L7 CBB v RRG]

My wife and I have only just read your Toyota Saga.

Which came about only because I checked your 'profile ' after you posted a reply to mine asking 'important what date did you buy etc ' and exactly why I and occasionally my wife spent a full 12 hours sat at the computer typing, copying, pasting and editing, yesterday.

What I am discovering is that unless the 'search' is very specific often you miss the 'real misery of owning a Toyota ' eg I'd only seen the http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?246764 previous on CAG and even that was after months of other Google 'search ' attempts.

I'm really happy for you that your misery was brought to an end and you have been able to move on, as I think you can concur when you're in the situation it becomes all consuming, you used similar terminology even, about banging your head, for example, and as you'd know whilst you wouldn't wish the 'experience ' on your worst enemy, it's a comfort to know that we are not isolated incidents, by any stretch of the imagination.

Whilst I/we would no doubt feel equally happy should the matter be brought to a swift end there are far to many almost exactly similar stories out there, not to want to offer assistance and inform the unwary.

That's an awful lot of totally unnecessary distress and inconvenience being caused by Toyota who could once be relied upon to be one of the worlds leading and most reliable car manufacturers. It is for this reason why I am developing a website and blog specific to these accounts of failure, inconvenience and distress, documented by their customers and press alike.

Our car was bought before the scandal broke, but both Toyota and RRG knew there were problems but didn't tell the 'customer ' and that's where a significant difference becomes key, knowledge and choice.

You knew there were faults with Toyota, and I suspect your gut feeling told you to stay clear? However your brain told you to consider decades of trust and reliability of the Toyota brand, and which we pay a premium at the dealerships for, don't forget. In my opinion it is that which Toyota are still relying upon and whilst on their own 'hype' site you will read of people who are perfectly happy with their Toyota's isn't that what 100% of TOYOTA OWNERS USED TO BE ABLE TO SAY AND STILL SHOULD ?

Did you receive Toyota Marketing Director, John Thomsons' sales pack in the mail? The one that says Reassurance that goes on and on along with a ' stress.free.driving.that.goes.on.for.years.and.years ' £20 million pounds Toyota has spent in that mail drop.

The clue is in the title ' Marketing ' you've dealt with them. Do you think they should have spent some of that £20 million pounds on 'Customer Services ' ?

In their own Toyota February 2010 ' Recall Bulletin ' conveniently placed in their dealerships, you can read their ' Marketing ' style. I wish it had been available when we went to buy our car it's an insult to peoples intelligence. Quote;

The numbers Toyota has acted with unprecedented speed and determination with the recent vehicle recalls - for proof just see these figures and then you read a bunch of nonsensical figures and statements which if your considering buying a ' brand ' new Toyota you may just fall for BUT if you've got a 'lemon' Toyota and an ounce of sense and you read it then it's guaranteed 100% to get your blood boiling.

- for " the real proof " just see this : The Toyota recall story rumbles on as the company’s US chief admits it was slow to react. http://www.digitallook.com/news/3297997/Toyota_owns_up_to_slack_procedures.html?username=&ac=

 

In a written statement, Toyota's US boss, James Lentz, said: ‘In recent months, we have not lived up to the high standards our customers and the public have come to expect

from Toyota. It has taken us too long to come to grip with a rare, but serious set of safety issues, despite all of our good faith and efforts. The problem has also been

compounded by poor communications both within our company and with regulators and consumers.’

unprecedented speed - v - slow to react Only one of those versions can be correct, am I right? One based on ' Marketing ' the other based on ' fact !'

 

In the library, if its' not one marked for closure, the Toyota February 2010 ' Recall Bulletin ' could rightly be logged under ' Fiction ' was yours, ours and significant others distress and inconvenience, of owning a Toyota fictitious or factual? RRG and Toyota would have us believe our experiences are unprecedented 20 months on and still fighting we'd say they are slow to react 4 more months and we'll be at the Tony Scanaliato stage. Google him see if it sounds a bit like our experience

For 30 years I drove Nissan, in fact the 1st one was even Datsun (remember the weather back then in the good old days of the 1960's RRG would have you 'Market, I mean 'Believe ' when it constantly rained Datsun Cogs; Sunny, Primera, Micra and Almera. I bought a Micra recently for my Mum she's had 3 previous, I bought my daughter a Micra, "and then I went and spoilt it all by saying some silly like," ' I'd like to by a Toyota Yaris Please ' !"

I realise that you've closed a door that you'd most probably rather not re-open. This Toyota affair has re-opened a lot of closed doors in my head, due to the stress and which I had spent years dealing with but please give your support as I'm assuming you don't like bullies also?

Please could you name the dealership or have you been restrained?

Please comment on our last post who you think is being 'unreasonable '

Look at the state of the country. Is there some great mystery why or maybe it's because too many people have been taking a wage for being incompetent of doing the job or just downright idle. But not to worry the hard working, the retired pensioner robbed of the interest of their savings and the unsuspecting, uniformed once 'valued ' customer will keep the economy going. Must we really begin every new purchase begin with a Google Search of not Toyota or RRG BUT Toyota Complaints, RRG Complaints etc. It would certainly ease the levels of stress that perhaps you're medically advised to 'avoid at all costs.'

Thank You

[fizzer123]

I will reply on your Thread

This dealership was RMB Teesside, who also own the dealerships in Northallerton and darlington