Diesel 03 Mondeo - Flashing Glowplug Light

[MrSooty]

Merry crimble to all CAG members!

 

I respectfully suggest you read some of the earlier posts in this thread, including my own, which are based on real life experience of something very similar (but not necessarily the same) to your own situation...

 

The main point to appreciate is that your Ford dealer is NOT the experts in the sense that you or I understand them to be - and my advice, IF you choose to accept it - is to use a Diesel diagnostic specialist instead!

 

My Ford dealer ended up asking for nearly £300 for the three and a half hours they spent checking the car and STILL wouldn't underwrite their diagnosis with a 100% guarantee it would be fixed - says it all, don't you think???

 

We 'parted company' with me paying £50 + vat - which is what a specialist would ask - and I DROVE the car away (even though they had said the Fuel pump had FAILED....interesting that you can still drive with that problem......) and am now waiting to have it checked elsewhere - life got real busy recently, so it's gone off my 'to do' list!

 

So, you have been warned - be careful out there and happy motoring

[rjpaterson]

Hi,

 

Changed cam sensor - still the same. Needed car urgently so had to take it to FORD. They have diagnosed a faulty number 4 injector. Total price £460. Is this expensive ???? Anyone know anywhere near Swindon who can get these replaced and re-programmed ????

 

Cheers

[The jazz drummer]

Hi

Had ma car diagnosed aswell and was told it had to go to ford to have its injecters reprogrammed.

Cost me £1107 needed new starter motor, clutch, flywheel.

 

Dont know what any of that had to do with the cars lack of power while driving but hey who am i!

Got it back thought it was running sweet until a had it a week, it became very difficult to get it in gear and between 2 and 3 thousand revs it sounded as if there was compressed air leaking from somewhere and very little power.

Got it booked back in for this monday so they better sort it out this time spent enough on it,

 

Any ideas of what it could be?

 

Cheers

[MrSooty]

I know this is really boring, but where did you take it for diagnosis and fixing...? Was it a Diesel Diagnostic Specialist and did you ask before they spent over a grand of your money, if the work they were doing was guaranteed to solve the problem - because if not, like lots of Dealers - and especially Ford Dealers, they are doing little more than guessing!!

 

No problem if you aren't bothered about the odd Grand or two, but if your money is hard earned, then please, take more care of it - good luck with the next 'expert' you take it to!

[jsr1st]

Hi,

 

Following the dreaded flashing glow plug light coming on and my car needing a new injector, it is now running again, although finds it difficult to idle when cold.

When first started from cold, the rev counter fluctuates around the 1000rpm mark and the engine cannot run at a constant. Also, sometimes a little white smoke comes from the exhaust when starting. Once run down the road, and left to idle, it seems fine again? When driving it is fine, and when warm it is also fine, its just that initial start up.

 

I am hoping to get it back to the garage that did the initial repair for investigation which I trust should not cost me any more unless we run into new parts.

 

Does this sound like a familiar fault to anyone and any advice on a DIY repair or fix? (i.e. the camshaft position sensor that is often referred to on here?)

 

Thanks,

 

Jon

[Conniff]

For all you with Mondeo problems, (or any car come to that), do some checks yourself before committing your hard earned to some Ford garage and still not getting the problem solved.

 

Check the connections to the various sensors by removing them and then replacing them, make sure they are a nice tight fit. The camshaft position sensor is a particularly weak point with Ford.

 

When you have done your checks, pull the fuse to the ecu or disconnect the battery for an hour or so to reset the fault codes in the ecu. (If you disconnect the battery, remember you will loose your radio code as well). This will clear the fault, but if it still exists then it will flag up again and the vehicle will drop back into 'safe or limp home mode' which will reduce power and increase consumption.

 

Don't automatically assume it is the injectors, egr valve or pump. These are expensive items and should be suspected last.

 

Never take it to a Ford dealer for diagnostics, take it to a diesel specialist or someone with a rolling road (usually a lot cheaper) who knows what they are talking about and should have the correct testing gear. Check before booking, ask them if they have the equipment to interrogate your particular ecu.

 

Diesel specialists know diesels and will have seen the same problem many times so may even know what your problem is before you even take it in by the description of what is happening and the make of vehicle.

[MrSooty]

Well done Conniff - a delightfully phrased summary of the practical way to deal with a range of issues which seem to plague us poor unfortunate Mondeo owners!

 

The key lesson we should ALL take from our combined experiences is that rushing into the open arms of a Ford Dealer is NOT the way to motoring happiness - or financial proberty!!

 

All I need now is some big pictures of where to find that Cam Sensor and where I would find the fuse to the thingy that you mentioned......after that, the rest should be easy;)

[rjpaterson]

Hi,

 

Is a special tool needed to remove the injectors. I have a guy coming out to change one and said price could alter if they do not come out correctly. I dont want to incur more cost !!!!

 

Thanks

[Hammy1962]

Just my opinion of course, but I would not suggest replacing an injector at the roadside or on your drive. Apart from the possibility of dirt contamination a replacement injector on a 2.0 TDCI would need coding to the ECU if it were a new one, if it's a used one it will need re-coding as it will have been coded to the original ECU it was paired with.

 

Be carefull

 

Hammy

[rjpaterson]

The guy changed it and programmed it. He had all the gear to do it. Problem is the car now starts so there must have been something wrong with injector. BUT... He tells me the car is still not running right but it sometimes takes time to let the injector settle down. Is his advice right ???? Plus the glow plug light is still flashing. This could be an expensive mistake i think !!!!

[Hammy1962]

Do you know what he programmed it with, can you descibe it? If it's still not running correctly then it's not right. Glow plug light flashing means LOS, limited operation stategy. Get you home mode designed to limit further damage. If the Glow plug is flashing there should be DTC's. Did your man recover any codes or delete the ones already stored?

 

Injectors don't "Settle Down" I'm afraid

 

Hammy

[rjpaterson]

I am in work so not sure how he programmed it. He tells me there are no error codes stored but the glow plug light is still flashing. When this initially happened I could not go above 70mph. Wife just took it out and got 95 out of it. She said it sounds rough and seems to have no guts. If he did program it wrong then how is it starting now where before he done anything it would not even start. I changed the Cam shaft position sensor last week but still have the old one. Could it be this ???

 

Thanks for your help.

[Hammy1962]

RJP

 

You have a PM

 

Hammy

[rjpaterson]

Hammy,

 

Sorry to be stupid but whats PM.????

[freakyleaky]

A PM is a private message. Information passed on via private message should be viewed with caution as if it is incorrect it can't be corrected.

 

CAG does not encourage the use of PM's for advice.

[Hammy1962]

freakyleaky: I wanted some information, which I got thank you, that both you and I wouldn't want the OP to post in an open forum.

 

It has, and will, help me to help to OP arrive at a more informed decision about the choice of repairs been offered when this eventually happens.

 

Don't be so suspisious of everything

 

Hammy

[freakyleaky]

I am certainly not "suspisious" of "everything".

I am suspicious of information and advice being passed on by PM.

 

I will say again for the benefit of all, CAG does not encourage the use of PM's for advice.

If you do decide to pass on personal information to other members then please be aware of CAG policy on this!

[Hammy1962]

freakyleaky: Rest assured, there're hasn't been, and won't be, any advice offered in a PM.

 

I think we should let RJP come back with the results of today's investigations and move on from there.

 

You can have the last word if that is what you want

 

Hammy

[rjpaterson]

Finally sorted !!!

 

Turned out that the mechanic who changed the injector did not program it correctly. £136 later and FORD got it sorted. Car now back to normal. Cost around £500 in all !!

 

Hopefully it will last.

 

Thanks to all that helped especially Hammy for his assistance. Happy motoring.!!!

[Hammy1962]

Thanks RJP, it's good when you post a success

 

Hammy

[Shackeng]

For info, 52 plate 76000 miles, Tdci 130ps Mondeo.

 

Had a flashing Glow plug light and 'Limp along' mode. Changed camshaft position sensor, no fix. Ford garage checked fault codes, No 1 injector faulty, reprogrammed all four, now OK. BUT they advise that as the injector showed a fault, experience suggests it will probably fail again soon, and also advise that the cost of changing all four injectors plus pipes (compulsory) is about £2000! I wonder if the car is even worth that much. Pretty disgraceful to design a car with such an expensive - and not uncommon - fault that frequently happens at mid-life mileage., thus rendering the repair, arguably, uneconomical.

[jsr1st]

For info, 52 plate 76000 miles, Tdci 130ps Mondeo.

 

Had a flashing Glow plug light and 'Limp along' mode. Changed camshaft position sensor, no fix. Ford garage checked fault codes, No 1 injector faulty, reprogrammed all four, now OK. BUT they advise that as the injector showed a fault, experience suggests it will probably fail again soon, and also advise that the cost of changing all four injectors plus pipes (compulsory) is about £2000! I wonder if the car is even worth that much. Pretty disgraceful to design a car with such an expensive - and not uncommon - fault that frequently happens at mid-life mileage., thus rendering the repair, arguably, uneconomical.

 

 

Skackeng - I would suggest you take your car to a diesel specialist or similar smaller garage, not the main dealer. My TDCI 130 developed the same problem - but injector #1 failed altogether and car ran like a bag of spanners. They changed the 1st injector plus auxiliaries for £300, inc. full ECU reprogramme, which fixed that problem. The trouble is, too much fuel got into the cylinder when the injector went, which resulted in the con-rod bending under the excess pressure, which in turn has damaged the cylinder head as well. Car still drive ok, its just noisy when cold but when it warms and the metal expands, all is ok, but a MAJOR £4k headache.

 

Definately worth seeing to it before you are presented with a huge bill for a new engine, but don't go to the main fraud dealer.

 

Fix Or Repair Daily people.

[jetman]

After I had the flashing glowplug light and engine shut-down, my independent garage diagnosed 3 failed injectors and 1 in poor condition (this was after checking camshaft and crankshaft position sensors) so they replaced all 4. Car then had to be put on a recovery vehicle to go to a Ford dealer for the new injectors to be coded to the ECU as this can only be done with Ford software. Total cost £1440. Result: engine running perfect.

 

Next day drove 30 miles on M25, glowplug light flashed and engine stopped. Recovered it back to the garage who did all the same tests but couldn't find the reason. They then took it to the Ford dealer that did the coding. Thet said that one of the new injectors had failed and replaced it, but not under warranty as they suspected that the cause was contaminated fuel.

 

It went back to my garage who drained the fuel tank and found particles of what they thought was copper. At this stage they felt that they were getting out if their depth so they took it to a diesel injection specialist.

 

The specialist stripped the whole fuel system, rebuilt the fuel pump, replaced the common rail and replaced the fuel tank. Interestingly, the new tank, as supplied by Ford against the chassis number, is made of plastic. The old tank was steel but copper plated inside. It is reasonable to surmise that the copper particles came from the tank. It is also reasonable to surmise that Ford have changed to plastic fuel tanks because of a copper contamination problem.

 

In the meantime, I had a sample of the fuel analysed by an indepenent laboratory. They confirmed the particles to be copper but they also found that the diesel contained about 5% petrol.

 

The day before all this problem started, I filled the tank from empty, so I contacted trading standards to ask them to visit the petrol station and check the delivery records to see if petrol had been accidentally put in the diesel tank. Sadly, trading standards couldn't be bothered and did nothing about it.

 

I have spoken to a "boffin" who knows all about fuel injectors. He tells me that the presence of petrol in the diesel could easily cause the seals in the injectors to break down, resulting in too much fuel entering the cylinder (the same problem experienced by jsr1st).

 

Thankfully, my independent garage are decent people and they were extremely embarrassed that the car was off the road for almost 3 weeks, so they didn't charge me for anything after the initial £1440.

 

There seems to be an inherent weakness in Ford injectors and Ford themselves seem to like playing their cards close to their chests. My advice to anyone with the flashing glowplug is to go straight to a diesel injection specialist. If they don't have the software for coding the injectors to the ECU, there are mobile guys around who will do it for about £90 (which still seems extortionate, but better than £140 at a Ford dealer). If an injector needs replacing, have the fuel tank drained and the system flushed.

[Hammy1962]

Interesting post, jetman. The failure of three injectors is indeed rare, plus the forth one on it's way out. I wonder what diagnostic technique the independent used to arrive at this conclusion. However one or more faulty injectors would lead me to suspect a fuel problem.

 

Without your specific vehicle details its difficult to answer the question of plastic or steel, copper plated tanks. As far as i know Mondeo tanks have alway's been plastic.

 

I did once ask for specific vehicle details on here but i got severly rebuffed by freakleaky.........so i can't help you there.

 

Probably all your trouble arose from contaminated fuel. If the fuel was comtaminated why do you think there is an inherent weakness in the injectors, it was the fuel that broke them!

 

Why do you think Ford are playing their cards close to their chest, Ford cannot be responsible for the type or quality of fuel put in one of their vehicles.

 

Hammy

[freakyleaky]

"I did once ask for specific vehicle details on here but i got severly rebuffed by freakleaky.........so i can't help you there."

 

If you have been in the Motor trade for 30 years I don't think you would seriously describe my actions as a severe rebuff.

Water off a ducks back to a sesaoned mechanic I'm sure.