Bailiff clamps car that doesnt belong to me and that is on HP!!

[if truth be known]

hi there...am totally new to this site as have only just registered but I have read many threads relating to an issue I have and am praying that someone can help me with my situation. I have 1 outstanding parking ticket and today a vehicle got clamped belonging to my mother due to this ticket (currently at £560 with all the bailiff charges) the bailiff company (and this particular bailiff) have been after me for a while but I have refused to pay as I dissaggreed with the initial ticket and now I believe the charges on top of that to be extortionate, you should know that I used to be the registered vehicle of this car but my mum paid and still pays the HP. However it was me that got the ticket in THIS vehicle. About 3 months ago I got a new vehicle, so signed the offending car over to my mum (so she is now the registered keeper, the owner and the hp holder). They have been to my house a few times (but had no luck as I dont let them in and obviously they havent found the vehicle as it is now always at my mums) however they know what I look like. Today I picked my daughter up from school and borrowed my mums car as mine is in the garage. they must have driven past me when I got out of the car and recognised me. I picked my little girl up (was gone all of 3 mins) and as I was walking back to the car I saw the van driving of and a clamp on the car. I called them and asked what they are playing at as;

A. there is HP on this car

B. It doesnt belong to me

they said if I am driving it they can clamp it and tow it as the tickets are issued to the car.

The police ended up being called and sided with the bailiffs (who might I add threatened to drag me out of the car before the police arrived in front of my 9 year old daughter). suspiciously they never towed it but said the clamp will stay on untill I pay the whole £560 and refused any kind of payment plan. they told me I had to give them the keys and the police backed them up on this. My mother is furious and called the police wanting to report this as a theft but weve been fobbed of with "its a civil matter so we dont get involved" yet when they attended the incident I was given 1 of 2 altermatums by the police.... either I get out of the car and allow the bailiff to tow, or I give him the keys and the clamp stays on. I really dont know what to do or what rights my mum may have and really hope you can help. we showed the bailiff the hp agreement and her log book . I feel awful that she is being penalised for my debt/grievence.... sorry for sending such a long winded message I am desperate. They have said if I do not come up with the money by 12pm today they will tow and sell my mums car.

 

thanks in advance for any advice

[tomtubby]

hi there...am totally new to this site as have only just registered but I have read many threads relating to an issue I have and am praying that someone can help me with my situation. I have 1 outstanding parking ticket and today a vehicle got clamped belonging to my mother due to this ticket (currently at £560 with all the bailiff charges) the bailiff company (and this particular bailiff) have been after me for a while but I have refused to pay as I dissaggreed with the initial ticket and now I believe the charges on top of that to be extortionate, you should know that I used to be the registered vehicle of this car but my mum paid and still pays the HP. However it was me that got the ticket in THIS vehicle. About 3 months ago I got a new vehicle, so signed the offending car over to my mum (so she is now the registered keeper, the owner and the hp holder). They have been to my house a few times (but had no luck as I dont let them in and obviously they havent found the vehicle as it is now always at my mums) however they know what I look like. Today I picked my daughter up from school and borrowed my mums car as mine is in the garage. they must have driven past me when I got out of the car and recognised me. I picked my little girl up (was gone all of 3 mins) and as I was walking back to the car I saw the van driving of and a clamp on the car. I called them and asked what they are playing at as;

A. there is HP on this car

B. It doesnt belong to me

they said if I am driving it they can clamp it and tow it as the tickets are issued to the car.

The police ended up being called and sided with the bailiffs (who might I add threatened to drag me out of the car before the police arrived in front of my 9 year old daughter). suspiciously they never towed it but said the clamp will stay on untill I pay the whole £560 and refused any kind of payment plan. they told me I had to give them the keys and the police backed them up on this. My mother is furious and called the police wanting to report this as a theft but weve been fobbed of with "its a civil matter so we dont get involved" yet when they attended the incident I was given 1 of 2 altermatums by the police.... either I get out of the car and allow the bailiff to tow, or I give him the keys and the clamp stays on. I really dont know what to do or what rights my mum may have and really hope you can help. we showed the bailiff the hp agreement and her log book . I feel awful that she is being penalised for my debt/grievence.... sorry for sending such a long winded message I am desperate. They have said if I do not come up with the money by 12pm today they will tow and sell my mums car.

 

thanks in advance for any advice

 

Sorry but I am really confused at which car the bailiff has clamped.

 

You cannot refuse to pay a PCN at this stage in the proceedings. You can complete an Out of Time Declaration with the Traffic Enforcement Centre and this will FREEZE all enforcement immediately but this can only be done on 4 grounds. One being that you had not received a Notice to Owner and the other that you appealed to the local authority but had not received a response.

 

If this applies then ring TEC (they open at 8.30) and they will e-mail the form to you and you can sign it and e-mail a copy straight back. Their number is o8457 045 007.

[seanamarts]

Sorry but I am really confused at which car the bailiff has clamped.

 

Let me get this right.

The OP did own the car that has now been clamped, it now belongs to the OP's mother, who has been paying for it on a HP agreement since it was bought. The car that has been clamped was the car that received the ticket but no longer belongs to the offender of the ticket.

Ive got this right yes?

[seanamarts]

Some one correct me if I am wrong here.

Bailiffs cannot seize property that is on HP and cannot seize property that does not belong to the debtor. The owner (your mother) needs to call the bailiff company and demand that the car be returned/un-clamped asap.

If no joy with the bailiff company then I suggest your mother call the council who issued the PCN stating that she is the owner and that the car is on HP. The council are responsible for the bailiffs actions so are able to request that the car is un-clamped.

[if truth be known]

Hi Seanmarts

 

If "OP" applies to me then you have it in a nutshell. ive literally had 2 hours sleep and am panicking so much.

my mum has just called the HP company and they are saying the car is responsible for the debt and not the person. They are also saying that she has broken the terms of her agreement by allowing her daughter to get a parking ticket on the car in the first place (regardless of who was the registered keeper at the time)!

[if truth be known]

Hi Tomtubby

 

There is only one car. but it is now registered to my mum, it was previously registered to me.

[Ell-enn]

You should also make a formal complaint to the police - it's a civil matter when you want to report it, but a criminal matter when the bailiffs want to report it !!! It's time police forces were made aware of what bailiffs can and can't do. There's another thread about a vehicle repo where the OP is suing the police for allowing the bailiffs to "steal" her car as they stood by and watched.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

Bearing in mind i know next to nothing about pcn's.....

 

Surely so long as YOU are speaking / writing to them they will remain convinced that they have the right person and the right car.

 

It seems logical to me that your mum (or at least you, in your mums name) should:

 

a)Write / e-mail the bailiffs saying;

 

"My name is XXXXX I am the hirer and registered keeper of vehicle reg. XXXXXX, I can assure you i have no outstanding PCN's and therefore demand the removal of your clamp. If the clamp is not removed in 24hrs i will hire an alternative vehicle and recover the associated costs from you, through county court if necessary"

 

b) Contact the tec to the same effect, your mum can surely 'tick the right boxes' (i.e. didn't receive it, never parked there, wasn't the registered keeper) easier than you?

 

YOU can then deal with the your pcn separately, minus the clamp and ear ache from mum.

 

Someone please correct me if i'm wrong.

 

 

I'm not 'having a go' truthbeknown, but it does my nut in, hearing how people expect to be believed that the wrong goods have been seized when they (the debtor) are doing the complaining!!!!

 

If the wrong persons goods had been seized, the only plausible outcome would be:

 

1) The actual debtor. Wouldn't give a stuff, indeed probably quite pleased that Mr Bailiff has made a mistake and will probably get some stick for it.

 

2) The aggrieved innocent party - very angry, not willing or able to discuss the debt, how it arose or who to... BECAUSE IF IT IS NOT THEIR DEBT - THEY WOULDN'T KNOW ANY OF THAT

 

AAARRRGGHHHH!!!!!

 

Had to get that off my chest!

 

Good luck with this.

 

EDIT - As ellen has said, complain to the police - but surely YOUR MUM needs to make the complaint. How could YOU complain that a bailiff has clamped someone else's car - get it???

Edited May 13, 2010 by Thegreenpimpernel

[seanamarts]

Hi Seanmarts

 

If "OP" applies to me then you have it in a nutshell. ive literally had 2 hours sleep and am panicking so much.

my mum has just called the HP company and they are saying the car is responsible for the debt and not the person. They are also saying that she has broken the terms of her agreement by allowing her daughter to get a parking ticket on the car in the first place (regardless of who was the registered keeper at the time)!

If I wasnt a lady I would say.. what utter bollox!!!!!

The registered keeper of the car is responsible for the PCN despite who drove it on the day the PCN was issued.

Lets say for arguments sake the car was not on HP.

You got a PCN on xx day for the car,

You sold the car on xy day but you have not paid for the PCN

the new owner of the car is not responsible for your PCN just because they bought the car from you. Th PCN is still yours. So how the HP people can say that the car is responsible for the PCN is just ridiculas.

Your mum needs to have a look at the HP agreement and see what it states with regards to you getting a ticket.

[if truth be known]

You should also make a formal complaint to the police - it's a civil matter when you want to report it, but a criminal matter when the bailiffs want to report it !!! It's time police forces were made aware of what bailiffs can and can't do. There's another thread about a vehicle repo where the OP is suing the police for allowing the bailiffs to "steal" her car as they stood by and watched.

 

 

Thanks for your advice Ell-enn. My mum did that and it worked! we got a CAD number and they said we shall get a crime ref soon. We have reported the keys stolen. They apologised that the police who attended the scene yesterday did not but defended themselves by saying its not a matter that police like to get involved in and the general rule is that they trust the bailiffs to no their rights and their jobs. They will enforce the return of they keys but the investigation will take up to 72 hours

[if truth be known]

Hi There Greenpimpernel

 

The only reason I did majority of complaining yesterday is was because mum was at work. She has taken the day off today to deal with this

[if truth be known]

If I wasnt a lady I would say.. what utter bollox!!!!!

The registered keeper of the car is responsible for the PCN despite who drove it on the day the PCN was issued.

Lets say for arguments sake the car was not on HP.

You got a PCN on xx day for the car,

You sold the car on xy day but you have not paid for the PCN

the new owner of the car is not responsible for your PCN just because they bought the car from you. Th PCN is still yours. So how the HP people can say that the car is responsible for the PCN is just ridiculas.

Your mum needs to have a look at the HP agreement and see what it states with regards to you getting a ticket.

 

I KNOW!!!

A supersviser from the HP company called my mum back. They are emailing Newlyn with details confirming that my mum is the policy holder. The most frustrating thing now is that Newlyn are playing dirty by insisting we provide evidence of the HP agreement (that I presented the bailiff with yesterday). Because of all the upset I left all the documentation in the car before they siezed the keys. Now the office is demanding a copy of the policy be faxed to them and mum has explained its in the car (which we dont have access to as the bailiff has the key)! when i called the bailiff he said he isnt having anything to do with my case anymore and to call the office. HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THE KEYS ARE! office are saying they dont have them and are not removing clamp until policy is shown. UTTER NONSENCE.

 

I have asked for break down of charges and they have said they dont have to reveal these. cannot understand how £500 can be legally added to a ticket of £185

[tomtubby]

Hi Tomtubby

 

There is only one car. but it is now registered to my mum, it was previously registered to me.

 

HOWEVER in most cases the registered keeper is also the owner but this is not always the case.

 

Who is the actual owner of the car that has been clamoped?

 

Who purchased it or whose name is the HP Agreement in?

[if truth be known]

HOWEVER in most cases the registered keeper is also the owner but this is not always the case.

 

Who is the actual owner of the car that has been clamoped?

 

Who purchased it or whose name is the HP Agreement in?

 

 

My mum is the actual owner. HP is in her name. sorry I know my first post was upset drivel at 2.45am and difficult to understand

[tomtubby]

HOWEVER in most cases the registered keeper is also the owner but this is not always the case.

 

Who is the actual owner of the car that has been clamoped?

 

Who purchased it or whose name is the HP Agreement in?

 

Sorry, I had not read your responses before sending mine.

 

Have you checked to confirm whether the bailiff is certificated?

 

Were you provided with a Notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory?

[RaeUK]

Do I detect the whiff of a Formal Complaint to the CEO of the responsible council floating gently through the air ...

Best wishes

Rae

[if truth be known]

Sorry, I had not read your responses before sending mine.

 

Have you checked to confirm whether the bailiff is certificated?

 

Were you provided with a Notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory?

 

No have not checked to see if bailiff is certified. How do I do that?

 

Yes he provided me with a seizure and inventory

[hallowitch]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/210956-line-search-check-if.html

[if truth be known]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/210956-line-search-check-if.html

 

Thanx, hes registered but for a different court than what issued my ticket. does that matter?

[hallowitch]

If you cant find him on the register (not always 100%) phone

 

Ministry of Justice Public Register of Bailiffs on 020 3334 6355

 

if you have to phone ask them to confirm he is certificated to Newlyn and the date he started

[hallowitch]

Thanx, hes registered but for a different court than what issued my ticket. does that matter?

 

 

no as long as he is certificated to Newlyn

[seanamarts]

I KNOW!!!

A supersviser from the HP company called my mum back. They are emailing Newlyn with details confirming that my mum is the policy holder. The most frustrating thing now is that Newlyn are playing dirty by insisting we provide evidence of the HP agreement (that I presented the bailiff with yesterday). Because of all the upset I left all the documentation in the car before they siezed the keys. Now the office is demanding a copy of the policy be faxed to them and mum has explained its in the car (which we dont have access to as the bailiff has the key)! when i called the bailiff he said he isnt having anything to do with my case anymore and to call the office. HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THE KEYS ARE! office are saying they dont have them and are not removing clamp until policy is shown. UTTER NONSENCE.

 

I have asked for break down of charges and they have said they dont have to reveal these. cannot understand how £500 can be legally added to a ticket of £185

 

Ask the HP company to send you a copy in JPEG form via email, or get them to fax it straight to the bailiff company.. sounds like they are stalling for time and either the bailiff is passing the buck as he knows he has done wrong or the bailiff company has told him to stay quiet until its been sorted. Either one will have the keys and I will bet they are still with the bailiff. where is your car by the way?

Its good to see the police are now getting involved as it IS a police matter. Makes me so cross that they always side with the bailiff even when they are in the wrong because they think the bailiff is right and knows the law better than we do.

As for the bailiff company not letting you know what the charges are is utter BS.. They have to let you know.

[letsmakeamark]

You need to file the attached form and wait. Thats unless the has already been lifted. Also do pay the fee. It is free.