Credit Ref Agency reply to DPA s.12 request-help please

[Tinkerbelle]

Yes.

 

Am I correct in assuming that you are saying yes to the question?

 

So in the absence of a contract (i.e. contract ended) where do you stand on that? Do you think it is ok to contine to make available and process personal data that is no longer valid?

[jamesbond]

my apologies jamesj if you consider my statement unpleasant, it was actually directed at all cras in general, but surely your own moral compass must dictate that these practices are not correct?

and how can you answer to the icos own leaflet which clearly states that any processing permission can be removed?

[Tinkerbelle]

as posted from the information commisioners own leaflet.

 

 

 

•

 

 

you have given your consent to the

 

processing (although consent may be

withdrawn);

 

can it be any clearer jamesj?

 

That was going to be my next question

 

James, we have a right to withdraw consent and the Information Commissioners Office have pblished this in their document entitled Data Protection Act 1998 Legal Guidance by the Information Commissioner. Page 54 section 4.2.1

 

Are you saying that it doesn't matter?

[JamesJ]

as posted from the information commisioners own leaflet.

 

 

•

you have given your consent to the

processing (although consent may be

withdrawn);

 

can it be any clearer jamesj?

 

I expect the lender would argue that the previously-provided consent was a part of the legally-binding agreement between you so it cannot now be withdrawn. Have you tried asking a lender?

[dayglo]

Hello James,

Can I ask whether or not Experian still believe the content of the letter issued by your Consumer Compliance Exec. still stands or if there has been communication from the Information Commissioners Office advising that this letter from your company is inaccurate?

 

I'm sure you know which letter I am referring to.

[jamesbond]

are the lenders not expected to carry out these practices laid down on there own , with out me having to remind them? and also this must surely apply to the cras as well, of which you are an employee and spokes person?

[Tinkerbelle]

I expect the lender would argue that the previously-provided consent was a part of the legally-binding agreement between you so it cannot now be withdrawn. Have you tried asking a lender?

 

Would you not agree that in the absence of a contract there is no longer consent?

 

Bearing in mind that I am yet to see a Contract that says "we must" or "we will" send your personal data to a CRA. They all say "may"

[JamesJ]

Hello James,

Can I ask whether or not Experian still believe the content of the letter issued by your Consumer Compliance Exec. still stands or if there has been communication from the Information Commissioners Office advising that this letter from your company is inaccurate?

 

I'm sure you know which letter I am referring to.

 

I'm sorry, I don't. Would you care to explain? I don't work in that area.

[SurlyBonds]

I expect the lender would argue that the previously-provided consent was a part of the legally-binding agreement between you so it cannot now be withdrawn. Have you tried asking a lender?

 

erm James... please do go and read a contractual law book, I beg you... becuase you do REALLY need to understand the basis of a contract.

 

BOTH parties have the full right to cancel a civil contract within the terms (usually 30 days notice, etc., sometimes 90 for job roles, etc.)

 

I've just given consent for my daughter to learn the recorder at school, so by your logic, she is bound to remain learning it until she leaves school even though she might not get on with it. I can withdraw consent on anything as trival as this, as can I when it comes to my data - the LAW says I can. It's a civil contrat, not a Parliamentary statute that says I'm bound in for ever and ever, amen.

 

Once a contract is finished, it is finished... the lender has some continued rights under the CCA to pursue any unpaid money (if any), but the rest of the paper on which the contract was signed is as useful as toilet roll.

 

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

[Robertxc]

I didn't think it would take long for this unpleasantness for resurface.

Anyone posting in this thread, please take note. I do not have the patience to read through loads of personal antagonism. If you want to do that, do it somewhere else. I have been trying to have a detailed debate about the actual issues, and James is obviously in a position to give us valuable insight into 'the other side'.

 

As I said, I cannot be a**ed reading loads or irrelevent cr*p, which is basically a waste of electrons. All it does is make the thread harder to read for those of us who are only interested in the issues. So, if you must pepper your posts with personal comments/attacks, bugger off and do it somewhere else. I will delete any posts which are getting personal, and you can kiss my ar*se if you don't like it.

[Tinkerbelle]

I expect the lender would argue that the previously-provided consent was a part of the legally-binding agreement between you so it cannot now be withdrawn. Have you tried asking a lender?

 

Oh yes!! We certainly have. And guess what they say? "The ICO told us we have to report it for 6 years".

[dayglo]

I'm sorry, I don't. Would you care to explain? I don't work in that area.

 

this one

[JamesJ]

Would you not agree that in the absence of a contract there is no longer consent?

 

Bearing in mind that I am yet to see a Contract that says "we must" or "we will" send your personal data to a CRA. They all say "may"

 

No.

 

I'm sure the consent clauses are very carefully worded.

[JamesJ]

erm James... please do go and read a contractual law book, I beg you... becuase you do REALLY need to understand the basis of a contract.

 

BOTH parties have the full right to cancel a civil contract within the terms (usually 30 days notice, etc., sometimes 90 for job roles, etc.)

 

I've just given consent for my daughter to learn the recorder at school, so by your logic, she is bound to remain learning it until she leaves school even though she might not get on with it. I can withdraw consent on anything as trival as this, as can I when it comes to my data - the LAW says I can. It's a civil contrat, not a Parliamentary statute that says I'm bound in for ever and ever, amen.

 

Once a contract is finished, it is finished... the lender has some continued rights under the CCA to pursue any unpaid money (if any), but the rest of the paper on which the contract was signed is as useful as toilet roll.

 

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

 

Why is it so difficult for you to not be so condescending?

[Robertxc]

Once again:

Anyone posting in this thread, please take note. I do not have the patience to read through loads of personal antagonism. If you want to do that, do it somewhere else. I have been trying to have a detailed debate about the actual issues, and James is obviously in a position to give us valuable insight into 'the other side'.

 

As I said, I cannot be a**ed reading loads or irrelevent cr*p, which is basically a waste of electrons. All it does is make the thread harder to read for those of us who are only interested in the issues. So, if you must pepper your posts with personal comments/attacks, bugger off and do it somewhere else. I will delete any posts which are getting personal, and you can kiss my ar*se if you don't like it.

[SurlyBonds]

Why is it so difficult for you to not be so condescending?

 

I'm not being condescending... I am asking a simple question. Are you going to answer it?

 

If a civil contract is terminated, then the terms and clauses likewise terminate, so where does the lender think he can continue any implied right?

 

It's simple.

[Tinkerbelle]

No.

 

I'm sure the consent clauses are very carefully worded.

 

Where does it say in this then that you have a right to hang on to my data for 6 years?

 

xxxx may disclose information relating to the status of your xxxx account to any credit reference agency or debt recovery agency to assist in the making of credit decisions or the prevention of fraud, or the recovery of money owing to xxxx. xxxx may also disclose your xxxx account status information to the xxxx or the xxxx’s subsidiary companies for student welfare purposes. This is to allow the xx to impose academic sanctions in order to assist the recovery of moneys owing to the xxxx, and to allow the xxxx or its subsidiaries to make credit status decisions in future dealings with you

.

You hereby consent to the transfer of personal information from the xx's computer systems and other records to xxxx sufficient only to establish and maintain the computer records needed to operate your xxxx account.

[JamesJ]

this one

 

I'm sorry, I'm not aware of your personal case or any correspondence with ICO. I do know that we are updating our website though.

[JamesJ]

I'm not being condescending... I am asking a simple question. Are you going to answer it?

 

If a civil contract is terminated, then the terms and clauses likewise terminate, so where does the lender think he can continue any implied right?

 

It's simple.

 

SurlyBonds

 

I don't know. I cannot tell you what a lender (or his lawyer) might think. You'd have to ask them. If you are so convinced you are right, why is it so important that I personally agree with you?

 

James

[dayglo]

I'm sorry, I'm not aware of your personal case or any correspondence with Information Commissioners Office. I do know that we are updating our website though.

 

It was more to do with the fact that one of your directors had conceded the point that unless a contract contained an 'in perpetuity' or 'for x years afterwards' type clause, once the contract has ended and is 'satisified' If I wanted to, and I do, the Experian would have to remove all this data from my file.

 

Last Friday, this was definitly the case, and he suggested that the rest of his staff were going through some training to this end.

 

I have a suspicion that Experian would prefer to step back from the concessions made in this letter - what do you think?

[JamesJ]

Where does it say in this then that you have a right to hang on to my data for 6 years?

 

.

 

 

It doesn't.

[JamesJ]

It was more to do with the fact that one of your directors had conceded the point that unless a contract contained an 'in perpetuity' or 'for x years afterwards' type clause, once the contract has ended and is 'satisified' If I wanted to, and I do, the Experian would have to remove all this data from my file.

 

Last Friday, this was definitly the case, and he suggested that the rest of his staff were going through some training to this end.

 

I have a suspicion that Experian would prefer to step back from the concessions made in this letter - what do you think?

 

If you send me the reference to the letter ([email protected]) I'll have a look at it.

[Tinkerbelle]

It doesn't.

 

Thank you James. Can you tell me then, why Experian have refused to remove it from my file, bearing in mind the account was closed and settled 4 years ago.

 

Thanks

[dayglo]

If you send me the reference to the letter ([email protected]) I'll have a look at it.

 

Sorry James,

I don't quite understand. Do you mean the reference number of the letter that is greyed out on Surlys Sticky post?

[JamesJ]

Thank you James. Can you tell me then, why Experian have refused to remove it from my file, bearing in mind the account was closed and settled 4 years ago.

 

Thanks

 

Because lenders have agreed to share data for six years not four.