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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Help wanted.Restons / CCJ


ianjen
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Thanks so much - yes if anyone is will to come along that would be great - really can't thank everyone for their support.

 

Court case will be held at Chester the home town of the MBNA!!!

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Ah...Yes-this is the Court which actually referred the CCA cases (or a selection of them ) to Manchester.

 

So we can be CERTAIN its not something they are in the dark on.

We have had a few bad results from there-there was rumours that MBNA are a big employer and of course Chester is also home to those other sinister outfits like AK.

But dont let that put you off-it has certainly not put us off.

Good preparation and a will and determination to fight are a must.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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I will post out a shout for a Court Buddy for you.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Hi ianjen, northampton must have accepted your payment proposals after looking at your income / expenditure section section of the origonal court papers or come to the decision themselves after seeing same paperwork therefore has anything changed to bring on the redtermination ? . What is shown on the paperwork asking for a redetermination ( length of time etc), the answers to these questions may help you build up a defence against redetermination if you were to accept origonal judgement.

sleepingdog

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It is a Notice of Transfer of Proceedings and states the following:

 

To all parties

 

This claim has been transferred to the Chester County Chourt for that court to deal with the claimant's application for redetermination.

 

That court will send you and the other parties notice of the time, date and place of hearing.

 

It is issued by Northampton CC

 

Nothing has changed from the original paperwork sent. The CCCS ran through our expenditure and updated it and sent us a copy to send with the initial Court Application

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Hi ianjen, As I don't know the figures involved I guess that the payments that you were making to the DMP concerning the MNBA account would have meant that the length of time to fully repay would have taken 10s of years. If I am right then I am guessing that they want payment sooner by either a increase of payments or a charge on your home. If you are not fighting the origonal judgement then you need to be looking at why the payments should remain the same and also why the judgement should not be changed to forthwith.If you look into charging orders on this site it outlines what sort of objections to use , and if you look at threads on charging orders again you can get a lot of info on fighting the change of judgement to forthwith. If however you are thinking of fighting the origonal judgement then you will need to tackle this differently and therefore you need to look into either option and decide which way to proceed allowing posters to help you rather than possibly confuse you.

sleepingdog

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Hi we have just recieved the notice for our redetermination hearing 30/3/2010 @1045am

Now we need to work a defence but am still not sure which way to go

any help/advice welcome

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Hi just spent a couple of hours reading threads and come to the conclusion that what restons/mbna are really after is a charging order, if the judge turns this to a forthwith then they will get what they want.

Is there any mileage in the fact that the DNs were possibly incorrect so therefore the original ccj is invalid

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Hi ianjen, just because MBNA want the judgement changed to forthwith to allow them to go for a charging order does not mean that the judge will change it. You need to show how it affects other creditors ( are other debts higher than the MNBA largest debt) , that you have tried to deal with your debts (DMP) ,that you have been making regular payments to them that reflects your financial situation , is debt yours but house in both your names, do you have any positive equity in house etc.Even if they do get order changed to forthwith you can still fight charging order.

sleepingdog

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Hi just spent a couple of hours reading threads and come to the conclusion that what restons/mbna are really after is a charging order, if the judge turns this to a forthwith then they will get what they want.

Is there any mileage in the fact that the DNs were possibly incorrect so therefore the original ccj is invalid

 

 

You could mention about the DN's at a Redetermination hearing but you may very well irritate a Judge, who will just tell you you should have applied for a Set Aside of the CCJ and then you could bring the defective DN's into play.

 

A Redetermination hearing is just that; a look at an application to redetermine the terms of the CCJ repayment.

I see sleepingdog has provided some excellent advice on this.

 

Have you given any thought about applying for a Set Aside seeing as you were incorrectly advised by CCCS ?

 

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Hi Ianjen sorry to read of the troubles you are experiencing with this duo, have noticed another thread going through a similar situation to you at present & hope you will gather some information from it to help you.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/241308-redetermination-hearing-advice-pls.html

 

I hope you find it useful and wish you every success in getting this sorted soon.

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Hi Ianjen,

 

The link in the previous post is to my original thread.

So sorry to hear you are going through the same. We were also incorrectly advised by the CCCS and now we are fighting a CO on our home, or rather I am as it's my husband's cc debt.

Anyway, I have just started a new thread called Fighting CO MBNA/Restons so that has all the updated info.

 

In our redtermination hearing we had an awful judge who wasnt bothered that MBNA didnt turn up, wasnt interested that my husband had been paying the monthly instalments as set by northampton since Aug 2009.

:(

He then ordered Judgement Forthwith which of course we couldnt pay and now I am objection to this CO.

The default notice was also invalid.

MBNA have also faffed about for many months when we treid to find out about unfair charges etc, but none of this seemed to matter :(

They have 9 days left to respond to the SAR.

 

When we get back to court when the CO is made final this is when I need to object so this is my task now, get as much info as possible in my objection so that the final CO isnt made. I worry most about a forced sale.

It is his debt and he will pay it minus unfair charges hopefully.

Our circumstances are slowly improving and all our creditors are now getting increased payments but not MBNA/RESTONSas they didnt want to be part of our DMP in the first place and went straight for the CCJ.

Sigh.

 

I have everything crossed for you for your redetermination. I will subscribe to this to see how you go and lend an ear, I know exactly what it's like, it's been avery rough time for us and pressured learning all the legal jargon etc :(

 

Good luck, have a read of my new thread about fighting the CO. Hopefully we can support each other through this difficult time.

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Hi Northstar, thank you for your support :) Our situation is very similar, this too is my husbands debt (but we are fighting together)

 

We are waiting for the subject access request from the MBNA but have not heard a peep out of them since we requested it over a week ago, but I suppose they have a few weeks to go yet.

 

However, we also applied to Restons (and the MBNA) for the CCA - Restons sent it back with the £1 postal order and saying the following:

 

Please find enclosed a DRAFT LETTER which purports to come from you but which is unsigned

You will appreciate that we must ensure we are corresponding with the correct person and that anyone requesting information is entitled to receive it.

Please ensure that all documentation is signed failing which we will not acknowledge receipt nor provide any response.

 

I also spoke with a guy from the CCCS about CO and the retermination hearing which is actually on the 30th and not the 31st as I said!!! They informed me to defend the payments the CCCS by stating that nothing has changed since Northampton CC so why did MBNA/Restons want a redetermination if that is all we can offer - he also stated to treat the CO like a secured loan on your property and not to worry about it!! Easy to say when it is not you that could end up with a CO!:(

 

I will check out your new thread and yes lets hope we can support each other - Jen

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Hi ianjen, one of my creditors tried to get a order changed to forthwith to allow a CO but I was able to fight it off , they have since stated that their client has a policy of keep applying to get a CO . Also one of my workmates had a CCJ ordered as forthwith with the view to the creditor getting a CO yet they were also able to get a redermination allowing the debt to be paid in instalments therefore stopping the CO so be positive .The fact that Restons are being unhelpful in regard to the CCA will have no relevence on the redermination ,and even if there was no agreement again it would not influence the redermination ,you would need to apply to have the CCJ set aside. On another note the CCCS advised me in my case that the creditors were entitled to apply for a CO and that they were likely to get it, luckily for me that wasn't the case and I must admit I was concerned at the advice I was given by the CCCS.

sleepingdog

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