Philips Bailiffs - Court fines by Son

[Pixidust]

Hiya, I'm hoping someone can help me. My son has unpaid Court Fines. The Court has passed a Distress Warrant to Philips Bailiffs. The problem is the warrant is for my property. Although my son does stay with me, he does not reside at my property permanently. Nothing in my property belongs to my son.

 

My son has not actually stayed with me since November 2009, and basically uses my address as correspondence. I have contacted both Philips Bailiffs, who hung-up on me after telling me they were coming to my property anyway and deciding for themselves whether anything belonged to my son, and the Court, who said that Philips Bailiffs have every right to do just this.

 

I work full-time, so the likelihood is that my property will be unsupervised with the exception of my 16 year old son who is registered disabled (Autistic Spectrum Disorder). I am afraid that the Bailiff can gain forceful entry to my property because the debt is for unpaid Magistrates Court Fines, and there is the possibility that my 16 year old will open the door allowing entry.

 

I cannot believe that there is nothing I can do about this because I am not the person who owes the money. The fact that my son does on occasion reside at my address does not mean that he owns any of the contents. It seems the onus is upon me to provide proof of ownership of possessions, which means that I am going to be hugely inconvenienced when I have actually done nothing wrong.

 

Can anyone tell me what my rights are and what the rights of the Bailiff are, and where I can go for further help.

 

Many thanks

[ploddertom]

Hiya, I'm hoping someone can help me. My son has unpaid Court Fines. The Court has passed a Distress Warrant to Philips Bailiffs. The problem is the warrant is for my property. Although my son does stay with me, he does not reside at my property permanently. Nothing in my property belongs to my son.

 

My son has not actually stayed with me since November 2009, and basically uses my address as correspondence. I have contacted both Philips Bailiffs, who hung-up on me after telling me they were coming to my property anyway and deciding for themselves whether anything belonged to my son, and the Court, who said that Philips Bailiffs have every right to do just this.

 

I work full-time, so the likelihood is that my property will be unsupervised with the exception of my 16 year old son who is registered disabled (Autistic Spectrum Disorder). I am afraid that the Bailiff can gain forceful entry to my property because the debt is for unpaid Magistrates Court Fines, and there is the possibility that my 16 year old will open the door allowing entry.

 

I cannot believe that there is nothing I can do about this because I am not the person who owes the money. The fact that my son does on occasion reside at my address does not mean that he owns any of the contents. It seems the onus is upon me to provide proof of ownership of possessions, which means that I am going to be hugely inconvenienced when I have actually done nothing wrong.

 

Can anyone tell me what my rights are and what the rights of the Bailiff are, and where I can go for further help.

 

Many thanks

 

Statutory Declaration.doc

 

Fill this in - you can have it witnessed at any Solicitor for approx £10 or free if you can go to your local County Court office. Send 1 copy to Phillips via email then post to them as back-up. If & when the Bailiff arrives you do not have to let him in, give him his copy outside and ask him to leave quietly - if he causes a fuss ring the Police and report him for Breach of the Peace - when Police arrive also give them a copy.

 

Despite anything they say the Bailiff can only seize goods that belong to the person named on their Warrant. You are not obliged to disclose the whereabouts of your son, although it would be a good idea to ask him to take his own responsibilities seriously as a Warrant could be issued for his Arrest.

 

PT

Statutory Declaration.doc

[RaeUK]

Can I just clarify that the 16 year old son is not the one to whom the fine applies?

Best wishes

Rae

[Pixidust]

Can I just clarify that the 16 year old son is not the one to whom the fine applies?

Best wishes

Rae

 

No, the fine is not for my 16 year old. The fine is for my 24 year old.

 

I've also just spoken to the local Magistrate Court who have advised me that I cannot get an appointment for them to notorise the Statutory Declaration until March this year, and that their fee is £25. Considering this fine is nothing to do with me I am finding this a lot of hassle. Now I know why some animals kill their young......

Edited February 16, 2010 by Pixidust

[RaeUK]

Thanks for that pixidust. Some solicitors can also act as commissioner of oaths, maybe worth ringing around as £25 seems pricey. Although, to be fair, I don't know what the going rate is.

Best wishes

Rae.

[ploddertom]

No the fine is not for my 16 year old. The fine is for my 24 year old.

 

I've also just spoken to the local Magistrate Court who have advised me that I cannot get an appointment for them to notorise the Statutory Declaration until March this year, and that their fee is £25. Considering this fine is nothing to do with me, I am finding this a lot of hassle. Now I know why some animals kill their young......

 

What an absolute load of parc for them to say this, somebody is extracting the michael - I think I said County Court. I can walk into our County Court Office - a very large & busy city centre location and it's done on the spot for free - have observed in the past a steady stream of customers for this service - not that I'm a regular attender. If you are not near one you should be able to walk into most Solicitors Offices for the same thing although at a cost of approx £10. Your yellow pages should be able to help - in particular look under Notaries.

 

PT

ps - submit Bill for worry, hassle and problem sorting on to son

[Pixidust]

What an absolute load of parc for them to say this, somebody is extracting the michael - I think I said County Court. I can walk into our County Court Office - a very large & busy city centre location and it's done on the spot for free - have observed in the past a steady stream of customers for this service - not that I'm a regular attender. If you are not near one you should be able to walk into most Solicitors Offices for the same thing although at a cost of approx £10. Your yellow pages should be able to help - in particular look under Notaries.

 

PT

ps - submit Bill for worry, hassle and problem sorting on to son

 

Contacted a Solicitor who deals with Public Notory and he will see me straight away for a cost of £5, which is very reasonable. The reason I contacted the Magistrates Court rather than County Court is because when I looked up the web site for County Court (Birmingham) there was no mention of offering a Notary Service.

 

I don't mind parting with £5 to resolve this, but the attitute of the Fines Department and Phillips Bailiff is appauling. Especially when you condider that I am not the debtor and my house is solely in my name. One does not need to be a genuious to accept that fact my Mortgage Statement lists me as the sole owner, the contents within would therefore almost certainly belong to me.

 

Thanks for your help. I've been worried sick since this Distress Warrent was delivered to my home yesterday and getting nowhere fast when trying to resolve it directly.

[ploddertom]

Contacted a Solicitor who deals with Public Notory and he will see me straight away for a cost of £5, which is very reasonable. The reason I contacted the Magistrates Court rather than County Court is because when I looked up the web site for County Court (Birmingham) there was no mention of offering a Notary Service.

 

I don't mind parting with £5 to resolve this, but the attitute of the Fines Department and Phillips Bailiff is appauling. Especially when you condider that I am not the debtor and my house is solely in my name. One does not need to be a genuious to accept that fact my Mortgage Statement lists me as the sole owner, the contents within would therefore almost certainly belong to me.

 

The Bailiff tries to prey on you and 9 times out of 10 under pressure a parent will pay their offsprings dues.

 

Thanks for your help. I've been worried sick since this Distress Warrent was delivered to my home yesterday and getting nowhere fast when trying to resolve it directly.

 

The chances are the Bailiff will still attend and in all probability will seize/levy on a vehicle outside whether yours or not, but your SD should resolve all this. Any more problems please come back.

 

 

PT

[tomtubby]

Contacted a Solicitor who deals with Public Notory and he will see me straight away for a cost of £5, which is very reasonable. The reason I contacted the Magistrates Court rather than County Court is because when I looked up the web site for County Court (Birmingham) there was no mention of offering a Notary Service.

 

I don't mind parting with £5 to resolve this, but the attitute of the Fines Department and Phillips Bailiff is appauling. Especially when you condider that I am not the debtor and my house is solely in my name. One does not need to be a genuious to accept that fact my Mortgage Statement lists me as the sole owner, the contents within would therefore almost certainly belong to me.

 

Thanks for your help. I've been worried sick since this Distress Warrent was delivered to my home yesterday and getting nowhere fast when trying to resolve it directly.

 

You must also ensure that you WRITE a letter to Philips and to the Magistrates Court that issued this fine. Do NOT rely upon telephone calls.

 

With the Court you need to ask that the complaint is referred to one of the Area Contract Managers who have sole responsibility for dealing with complaints such as this relating to their Contractors.

 

PS: In your letter to Philips you need to ENSURE that you mention that your 16 year old son is classed as "vulnerable" according to the National Standards for Enforcement Agents.

 

In the letter that you received, can you confirm whether the letter was sent in an envelope with 1st or 2nd class postage. This is IMPORTANT.

[Pixidust]

In the letter that you received, can you confirm whether the letter was sent in an envelope with 1st or 2nd class postage. This is IMPORTANT.

 

It never occured to me that this would be relevant, so I disposed of it. I would try to retrieve it, but today was refuse day, so it is gone forever

 

Edit: I'm assuming it would be 2nd class as the date of the letter was 11th February 2010, and I received it yesterday (15th Feb).

 

Letter I have drafted (and will post today) Hopefully this will result in them passing the debt back to the Court

 

"Dear Sirs

 

 

Ref: xxxx

 

I refer to your Notice of Distress Warrant for the above named person and wish to inform you that Mr xxxx does not permanently reside at this address. Indeed, I have had no contact with Mr xxxx since November 2009.

 

I enclose proof that I am the sole owner of this property and can confirm that the contents within and within its boundaries belong to me. I am in the process of obtaining a Statutory Declaration, which will be fully Notarised tomorrow, and duly forwarded to yourselves.

 

I am in full-time employment and will therefore not be present should one of your Bailiffs attempt to gain entry to my property. Please be advised that my home will be occupied by my 16 year old son who is registered disabled and diagnosed with learning difficulties (Autistic Spectrum Disorder), and is thus classed as "vulnerable" according to the National Standards for Enforcement Agents. Any attempt to enter my property whilst my youngest child is the sole proprietor will be met with charges being filed against your company for restitution.

 

You will NOT be allowed to gain peaceful entry to my property as I am not the debtor. Any attempt to enter my property will result in the Police being called. As you have been made fully aware that all contents within, and within the boundaries of my property do NOT belong to the debtor, you have no grounds in which to pursue this matter via me.

 

I trust that you will take the above comments on board and act accordingly

 

Yours sincerely"

Edited February 16, 2010 by Pixidust

[tomtubby]

It never occured to me that this would be relevant, so I disposed of it. I would try to retrieve it, but today was refuse day, so it is gone forever

 

Edit: I'm assuming it would be 2nd class as the date of the letter was 11th February 2010, and I received it yesterday (15th Feb).

 

Letter I have drafted (and will post today) Hopefully this will result in them passing the debt back to the Court

 

"Dear Sirs

 

 

Ref: xxxx

 

I refer to your Notice of Distress Warrant for the above named person and wish to inform you that Mr xxxx does not permanently reside at this address. Indeed, I have had no contact with Mr xxxx since November 2009.

 

I enclose proof that I am the sole owner of this property and can confirm that the contents within and within its boundaries belong to me. I am in the process of obtaining a Statutory Declaration, which will be fully Notarised tomorrow, and duly forwarded to yourselves.

 

I am in full-time employment and will therefore not be present should one of your Bailiffs attempt to gain entry to my property. Please be advised that my home will be occupied by my 16 year old son who is registered disabled and diagnosed with learning difficulties (Autistic Spectrum Disorder), and is thus classed as "vulnerable" according to the National Standards for Enforcement Agents. Any attempt to enter my property whilst my youngest child is the sole proprietor will be met with charges being filed against your company for restitution.

 

You will NOT be allowed to gain peaceful entry to my property as I am not the debtor. Any attempt to enter my property will result in the Police being called. As you have been made fully aware that all contents within, and within the boundaries of my property do NOT belong to the debtor, you have no grounds in which to pursue this matter via me.

 

I trust that you will take the above comments on board and act accordingly

 

Yours sincerely"

 

 

This is a good letter.It needs to be sent as quickly as possible to Philips by e-mail with a copy as well to the Fines Office at the Magistrates Court that issued the fine.

 

PS: I forgot to ask . Did your son receive a original summons or was the fine issued against him in his absence?

[Pixidust]

TT

 

I'm not sure whether my son received the original summons in person or not, but I suspect he probably did. I emailed the hard copy to Philips last night and received one of their auto generated replies. I wrote a similuar letter to the Court basically advising them that I would hold them personally responsible for any breach caused by Philips because Philips are acting upon their instruction.

 

I have an appointment with the Notary today at 4:30 to get the Statutory Declaration signed, which I will photocopy and send tomorrow.

 

I'm not expecting this to be the end of all this and am preparing myself for Bailiffs to turn up at my door.

 

I really do appreciate the advice because when I contacted the insolvency helpline they told me that the Bailiffs were entitled to remove my goods in my absence (with the aid of a Locksmith) and that I would have to prove they are mine after. They basically told me there was nothing I could do, so it would never have occurred to me to get a Statutory Declaration done. Not sure whether it will work, but it's a whole lot more constructive than the so called "professional advice" I received.

 

Many thanks again xxx

Edited February 17, 2010 by Pixidust

[tomtubby]

TT

 

I'm not sure whether my son received the original summons in person or not, but I suspect he probably did. I emailed the hard copy to Philips last night and received one of their auto generated replies. I wrote a similuar letter to the Court basically advising them that I would hold them personally responsible for any breach caused by Philips because Philips are acting upon their instruction.

 

I have an appointment with the Notary today at 4:30 to get the Statutory Declaration signed, which I will photocopy and send tomorrow.

 

I'm not expecting this to be the end of all this and am preparing myself for Bailiffs to turn up at my door.

 

I really do appreciate the advice because when I contacted the insolvency helpline they told me that the Bailiffs were entitled to remove my goods in my absence (with the aid of a Locksmith) and that I would have to prove they are mine after. They basically told me there was nothing I could do, so it would never have occurred to me to get a Statutory Declaration done. Not sure whether it will work, but it's a whole lot more constructive than the so called "professional advice" I received.

 

Many thanks again xxx

 

We always recommend a Statutory Declaration and frankly the cost of £5 for having it sworn is one of the best demonstrations of "value for money" that I know of.

 

PS: If this case does get problematical PLEASE do ensure that you post back here.

 

I do not have private message facility so if necessary I will provide the moderators with the contact details of the relevant Contracts Manager within your part of the country to pass on to you.

Edited May 6, 2010 by tomtubby

[fluffy_bunny]

Philips do not use normal post - it will have been sent by TNT which is the same service as 2nd class at best

[Pixidust]

This gets even worse....

 

Just spoken to the fines department at Birmingham Magistrates Court asking them where I would need to go in order to hand deliver some correspondence to them (Statutory Declaration and Letter). They catagorically state they will not accept it and the matter is between me and the Bailiff.

 

I advised them that the Statutory Declaration would render the Distress Warrent unlawful and that, as the Bailiff Company are acting on their instructions holds them liable for action to be taken against them.

 

So, How can I hand deliver this form, which should give them no alternative but to recall the Distress Warrent, and what can I do against the Courts for refusing to recall a Distress Warrent that they know will be unlawful?

 

Surely the Court can't refuse to accept the document and accompanying letter?

[F_DCAs]

They can't refuse if you post copies (via Recorded Delivery at the very least) as opposed to handing them in.

 

The court is clearly being obstructive, and a complaint about them should also be drafted.

[fluffy_bunny]

I think TomTubby needs to pass on the contract manager details ASAP so you can get this resolved

[Pixidust]

Just come back from the Solicitor with the Notarised Statutory Declaration, and 2 certified copies for the grand sum of £5, which is probably the best £5 I've spent this year.

 

I've sent the Declaration and accompanying letter by Recorded Delivery to the Court and will send it to Philips after obtaining a certificate of postage tomorrow so

 

All I can do now is wait to see what the outcome is. Hopefully this will be the end of it.

 

Either way I'll let you know (hopefully it'll also help others going through a similar experience)

 

Thanks again

Edited February 20, 2010 by Pixidust

[Pixidust]

Saga continues....

 

Received this from Philips today... (word for word, including errors)

 

Thank you for your recent communication and confirm that your comments have been noted, however in accordance with Company policy an agent may attend your property to confirm your residency.

 

I would be grateful if you could provide proof of residence to our agent in the form of a copy Council Tax Bill detailing your name and address. This will enable us to remove your address from our database and undertake a trace to locate the person concerned. Please note that originals should not be sent as they can not be returned to you.

 

Alternatively, you can send us a copy of the above mentioned documentation direct to this office.

 

Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience that may have been caused and I thank you for you cooperation in this matter

 

Yours sincerely

Maybe I'm just overtired but I've had enough... My response...

 

25/02/2010

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: xxx

 

Thank you for your item of correspondence dated 19/02/2010, contents of which have been noted. First of all, may I draw your attention to the fact that I signed my correspondence to your good selves with my name and I would appreciate being addressed by it. I do not appreciate being addressed as “The Occupier” when you have been furnished with sufficient information to the contrary.

 

Secondly, I will try to explain this as though explaining it to an amoeba, oh wait....... (never mind too complex).... Council tax? ....In case you are not aware, the financial year starts April (it does on my world anyway). I have not yet received my Council Tax Bill to furnish to you, so please stop being facetious (is that possible?). When I do receive it in APRIL, please feel free to provide a Court Order Instructing me to provide it to you and I will happily oblige. Otherwise, please do not request it as you have no legal stance to do so. I would also like to take this opportunity to advise you that I am a Civil Servant of 15 years and am fully conversed with the Data Protection Act, which clearly states that such information can only be provided when there is a Business Cause. This matter does NOT constitute a “Business Cause” and for this purpose I am refusing disclosure on principle that my personal data is protected under Law. This is my right as I am NOT the person for whom you have the Distress Warrant.

 

Thirdly, and most importantly... It does not matter whether I can provide proof that I am the sole occupier of the dwelling (Isn't my mortgage statement enough?). I have provided you with a Notorised Statutory Declaration. For the Lament terms (please listen) this is sworn under oath and a Legal Document. It WILL stand up in a Court of Law, so you are advised not to ignore it. You are aware that all possessions within this property and its boundaries belong to me and my 16 year old son (his bedroom contents), so even if Mr x did reside in this property you would not be able to serve a levy on any of it's contents (do you really think I'm stupid?). You are also aware that my 16 year old has learning difficulties and is likely to be here alone if an Agent did call. My 16 year old is vulnerable under the National Standards for Enforcement Agents (this applies to the household, not the person), so any attempt to visit this property is in breach of the National Standards for Enforcement Agents and I will pursue such a breach within the full extent of the Law.

 

If any “Agent” from you company arrives at my doorstep I will NOT be answering my door, I will be calling the Police. You have NO right to pursue this matter through me. Any further attempt to do so will be considered harassment and I will take Legal Action against you. I will also file a Form4 and address the matter with the Magistrate granting certification. Please advise me of the name of the Certified Bailiff dealing with the matter and the Court that Certified him.

 

I am not obliged to furnish you with information of Mr x's whereabouts and I have not intention of doing so without a written Court Order instructing otherwise.

 

I trust I have made my position perfectly clear and will not being hearing from you further, other to confirm this matter is now closed. I will charge for my time of writing further correspondence to you, so please do not waste either of our time with stupid requests you are not legally obliged to receive.

 

Yours faithfully

 

At what point do they stop harassing the relatives of the people they have the warrant for?

 

I know 100% that even the Police have to apply for a Court Order to trace a wanted criminal, so Philips insinuating they have the ability to "trace" is in itself laughable (I have more power and I'm just a front line Civil Servant - would cost me my job though...).

 

I am fed-up and tired with all of this...... I know I've made threats to take the matter further, but exactly what do i do if they continue? How do I make this stop?

 

Sorry if I seem a bit agitated, I'm just fed-up with all of this and just want to "put it all to bed" so to speak

 

Many thanks

 

Pixie

Edited February 26, 2010 by Pixidust

[RaeUK]

Nice response, Pixie, an enjoyable read. Just check it before you send it as there are a few little typo's.

I can fully understand your frustration. Not sure where the next step would lie but am thinking along the lines that this is a Magistrates Court fine, they are the bailiffs boss. The Ministry of Justice is in overall charge so some form of Formal Complaint that way may do the trick...

Best wishes.

Rae.

[Pixidust]

I think I've corrected the typos (my fingers type faster than my brain operates...)

 

I'm more frustrated than anything now. I could understand if I owed the money, but I don't. Why should I have to prove my innocence? Even in a Court of Law I'm am innocent until proven guilty.

 

The way this company is presenting itself suggests they have more powers than the Police, which is absolute rubbish! If my son was living here and broke the Law, the Police could only search HIS room with a search warrant, but the bailiffs suggest they have the power to enter my property and "help themselves" unless I can prove ownership, which I am fairly certain is not the case (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

 

Why are bailiff companies allowed to breach the Law in this way? Why won't the Police take action against them? I'm pretty sure if I so much as kicked a bin over I'd be arrested, but bailiff companies are committing acts of harassment, fraud, and threatening behaviour without any consequence.

Edited February 26, 2010 by Pixidust

[RaeUK]

I'm afraid bailiffs exist in a world that only revolves around their own hunger for money. They will lie, cheat, inflate, fabricate and generally delude themselves. I believe they must hate the internet...

They can only take goods belonging to the debtor. They cannot enter in the first instance except by peacefull means, i.e. an open window or door. Or by tricking a person into letting them in.

You don't HAVE to prove ownership, but it helps. If a bailiff has reason to believe the property is the debtors then the real owner will have to prove the opposite after the fact.

You have done everything a reasonable person would do. If they still came, got inside your property and levied your goods then you should have a good court case against them.

Best wishes.

Rae.

Edited February 26, 2010 by RaeUK
type o

[tomtubby]

I think I've corrected the typos (my fingers type faster than my brain operates...)

 

I'm more frustrated than anything now. I could understand if I owed the money, but I don't. Why should I have to prove my innocence? Even in a Court of Law I'm am innocent until proven guilty.

 

The way this company is presenting itself suggests they have more powers than the Police, which is absolute rubbish! If my son was living here and broke the Law, the Police could only search HIS room with a search warrant, but the bailiffs suggest they have the power to enter my property and "help themselves" unless I can prove ownership, which I am fairly certain is not the case (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

 

Why are bailiff companies allowed to breach the Law in this way? Why won't the Police take action against them? I'm pretty sure if I so much as kicked a bin over I'd be arrested, but bailiff companies are committing acts of harassment, fraud, and threatening behaviour without any consequence.

 

A very good letter and a copy MUST be sent to the Manager at the Magistrates Court.

[dashdespatch]

ive recently had problems with said ballifs i had a disagrement about the details of the fine, phillips said it was cast in stone went back to the court they ..northampton magistrates court.. said the debt had been "sold to phillips " and was nothing to do with them any more

 

ho hum/

[RaeUK]

Hi dashdespatch,

Not sure if you refer to an old problem or something you want help with. If the latter, then click the link below and start your own thread. People will then be along in due course to help...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=168

 

Best wishes

Rae