Lots of debt

[Americanmuscle]

Hi all! first time poster and now a frazzled brain from trying find and read what I am looking for, excellent site btw!

 

Just like a lot of others on here I have struggled to meet the monthly minimum payments on my credit cards,

I have used the templates from this site to write to the Credit Card companies asking if they will accept a pro rata payment

(still waiting to hear back from them)

 

 

do I also need to write to them asking for a credit agreement?

I thought yes to enable me to check if the debt was enforceable or not as

 

 

the cards I have were obtained 12,11,8 and 7 years ago,

obviously new cards were activated but no credit agreement was issued with the replacement cards.

 

Reading some of the threads on here would I be correct in saying the first response from the cc companies will be informing me

to expect a default notice and if they will accept my payment offer or not?.

 

In laymen terms what can or can't I do if the agreements are not enforceable in respect of them not accepting my pro rata offer?

 

Thanks in advance

[cerberusalert]

Yes still send the CCA requests. Depending on what they send back and whether they are legally enforceable will depend on what advice is given.

 

They have 12 working days from receipt of your request to provide the CCA, if they fail to do so or the agreement is unenforceable you can withold any future payments.

 

Send this recorded delivery http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/581-cca-request-letter and enclose a £1 postal order.... do not sign the letter.

[Americanmuscle]

Many thanks for your reply, does it have to be a £1 p.o? (will a cheque suffice?)

 

If unenforcebale you say I can withold future payments, is this until a compromise on reduced payments has been reached for me to clear the outstanding balance or leading to them writing off the debt?

 

Thanks

[cerberusalert]

Unless you can get someone else to do a cheque it's advisable to send a p.o. It has been alleged in the past that certain institutions have been creative with 'Photoshop'.

[cerberusalert]

If unenforcebale you say I can withold future payments, is this until a compromise on reduced payments has been reached for me to clear the outstanding balance or leading to them writing off the debt?

 

If they fail to send a CCA you can withold payment until they do. If they send an unenforceable agreement you can withold payment indefinitely, but if you wish you can negotiate repayment on your own terms if you feel morally obliged to repay any alleged debt. But remember, the words moral and finance together is something of a misnomer.

[Newborn]

One point to bear in mind is, that if you with hold payments they will frazzle your credit rating for a minimum of six years whether or not the debt is enforcable.

 

The CCA 1974 is not a magic wand that wishes debt away.

[Americanmuscle]

Thanks for the replies, I'm not wanting to make the debts vanish just to come to an agreement with them to enable me to repay an amount I can afford at present and for interest and charges to be frozen on the account to prevent the smaller repayments being eaten up making the debt bigger.

[alfwithhair]

Even if you do make arrangements to pay, if it is at a reduced rate most creditors will still stuff your credit file and default the account

[Americanmuscle]

Have heard back from one of the CC companies confirming they have received my offer letter and to inform me a default notice will follow (actually arrived in seperate envelope at same time), having read the DN I'm guessing I have a standard DN asking me to correct the breach of contract within 17 days, if I don't they will terminate the agreement, may demand immediate repayment of monies due plus any interest and admin charges and they may also assign my account to a debt collection agency or take court action to recover the debt.?

I guess I now wait for the 17 days to pass for them to contact me again to enable a repayment plan to be sorted.

[cerberusalert]

Can you post that DN up here after removing personal details?

[alfwithhair]

Have heard back from one of the CC companies confirming they have received my offer letter and to inform me a default notice will follow (actually arrived in seperate envelope at same time), having read the DN I'm guessing I have a standard DN asking me to correct the breach of contract within 17 days, if I don't they will terminate the agreement, may demand immediate repayment of monies due plus any interest and admin charges and they may also assign my account to a debt collection agency or take court action to recover the debt.?

I guess I now wait for the 17 days to pass for them to contact me again to enable a repayment plan to be sorted.

 

Issue a default before they will accept reduced payments?

Sounds like MINT or RBS to me. Correct?

Told you they would have to terminate the account before they could accept your plan did they?

 

Do post the DN up on here as it may be invalid

[cerberusalert]

Do post the DN up on here as it may be invalid

If its a DN rather than a Notice of Arrears I know it's defective.

[Americanmuscle]

Attached is page 1 and 2 of the notice I received at the same time but in a seperate envelope from their letter thanking me for my financial statement, that letter reads..

Before your offer of payment is considered a DN will be issued, followed by a termination letter 21 days later, formally cancelling the facility, as you are unable to make payments in accordance with your t&c's.

Our debt recovery office will contact you shortly with regard o your repayment proposals and the suspension of interest charges.Please note interest will continue to be added to your account until payment proposals are accepted.

 

Edited March 2, 2010 by Americanmuscle

[cerberusalert]

Right, the DN is dated the 6th Feb which was a Saturday, so the letter could not have got into the postal system before Mon 8th, the legal system assumes that it was posted second class unless the creditor can prove differently. In that case you have to allow four days for postal service + 14 days for you to remedy the default, which brings it to the 26th Feb. They have stated you have 17 days from the date of the letter which would bring it to the 23rd, so you are three days short. The DN is defective on this count also it is defective because it should be date specific for the remedy date, saying 17 days from the date of the letter is incorrect. All you have to do now is for them to terminate the a/c & then they will have unlawfully rescinded the contract.

 

Do not let them know about the defective DN until they terminate the agreement.

[cerberusalert]

Do you still have the envelopes? If so which class were they posted or were they sent UK business mail with an S on the envelope?

[alfwithhair]

As I thought RBS.

Know there wording anywhere.

Do as advised: NOTHING.

Let them terminate

[MDK]

I have a very similar one with S on the envelope and 'before the date shown' on the DN

So that means they go ahead and they are in the wrong?

[cerberusalert]

S on the envelope means second class post = 4 days for delivery. The date to remedy by must be date specific, just stating within 17 days is unacceptable.

[Americanmuscle]

Both envelopes are postmarked 1 royal mail (1st class)

the DN is dated February 5 which was a friday not that it makes much difference if the DN is defective for not being date specific anyway. I will do nothing and wait for them to contact me again.

[cerberusalert]

It's still defective because even if it was posted on the fri it could not get into the postal system before the following mon. Even tho' it was posted 1st class which is two days service it still makes the DN one day short + the fact that it's not date specific.

[cerberusalert]

With luck you'll get the hat trick, they'll send you a termination letter dated 22nd Feb & the CCA will turn out unenforceable too.

 

 

Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983, states that a failure of a Default Notice or Termination Notice to be accurate not only invalidates such notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd V Swain & Co NLD 14 July 1998 but it is an unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the court enforcing any alleged debt (Wilson V First County Trust Ltd [2003] UKHL 40, Wilson V Robertsons (London) Ltd [2006] EWCA Civ 1088, Wilson V Pawnbrokers [2005] EWCA Civ 147) - but would also give the claimant a claim for damages in the sum of £1000 (Kpophraror V Woolwich Building Society [1996] 4 All ER 119).

[Americanmuscle]

Excellent replies, many thanks, will post up when I receive communication from the other card companies.

Thanks again

[MDK]

And thinking of default notices....

 

 

Faber's Bold Prediction: Both The US And Europe Will Default On Their Debt | zero hedge

 

so why should we let the banksters get one over on the ordinary person who is just trying to make ends meet

[MDK]

and if you think you have a moral obligation.. this is for USA though and mortgages but worth a thought...

Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis: Walking Away Goes Mainstream; Yes It's OK; Moral Obligations Yet Again

[cerberusalert]

do I call or wait for them to write again?

Ignore them, all communication must be in writing. It leaves a nice paper trail & they cannot then deny what has occurred.