HSBC CCA going to court

[MandM]

Hi Gemz,

 

Have read your thread now on both sites. Out of interest, did you also send CPR 18 request? as I can't see it.

 

As TMM stated, it's 28 days + 5. But don't leave it until the last day (just in case your PC blows up )

 

Do you have your ED ready yet?

 

Might still be worth putting in a SAR to HSBC as it could flush out something of interest.

 

M

Edited January 9, 2010 by MandM
added a bit

[MandM]

And why does the member have to send a CPR18 request when a Site Team member has advised (in post 5) and correctly said (and even gave a specimen letter) "You will need to send CL Finance a CPR 31.14 request"?????

 

In some instances it pays to send both as it gives the OC little or no room to manouvre.

 

M

[MandM]

31.14 relates to documents mentioned in the POC whereas 18 relates to additional information and will be handy for drawing out statements and the like which may or may not give the OP further ammunition

 

M

[MandM]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blind-as-a-bat

Ok you need to go on mcol and acknowledge the summons and say you intend to defend in full. Done

 

They are basing there claim on a document they have already stated they dont have.

 

Not a good start for them Thought that was the case

 

You then need to sen HC the CPR fermi posted, plus a CPR 18 i think to get full statemants of the acount to verify what the true ballence is, im not sure CPR 31.14 covers statemants, need to check. Send who the CPR?

 

 

It is imperative you acknowledge before the hols, prefrably today, you technicaly have a few more days, and it would be nice to use them, but with the hols..............dont think its worth the risk.

 

We then have approx 14 days to get a defence sorted

 

Done and awaiting further instruction

 

Sorry Gemz, missed it on 1st read, see you've sent cpr18. What did you ask for? Did you ask for copies of statements?

 

M

[MandM]

Hi Gemz,

 

If you've done your AOS and you're defending they will move it to YOUR local court.

 

With regards to ED and CPR18 try this link, adapt to suit and post it up if you have any queries, Read the thread right through as the ED gets adapted - it's quite recent.

 

M

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/238913-me-tesco-incasso.html

[MandM]

Can you confirm the amount (roughly) Under £5k, or £5k to £25k, or over £25k.

 

Thanks

[MandM]

Will we receive something from the local court to confirm this? Thanks M

 

 

£5k to £25k

 

Yep, Northampton will write to you confirming receipt of your defence and confirming that a copy is being served on the Claimant.

 

2 or 3 weeks after that you will receive form N271 'Notice of Transfer of Proceedings' which will state that 'if the defendant is an individual the claim has been transferred to the court covering the area where the defendant lives or carries on business'. This, provided the claimant hasn't bottled it already, will come attached to the Allocation Questionairre.

 

Then the fun begins.

 

£5k to £25k

This will put you in 'fast track' unless you're very close to the £5k.

 

This should give you plenty of opportunities to find cause to strike out should the chance arise.

 

M

Edited January 11, 2010 by MandM
missed a bit. M

[MandM]

Attached draft defence statement. You have to edit everywhere where there is xxxxxxx.

 

There are two exhibits referred to. XX1 you change to Initial Surname 1. So if the name is say John Smith then you change XX1 to JS1 and XX2 to JS2.

 

You have to read it and understand it. As already said it is a draft and it is up to you if you want to accept it "as it is" or if you want to do any amendments.

 

You will have to do 3 copies. (I would actually say do 4 copies so you have a spare one just in case). One for you, one for the claimant and one for the Court. Also 3 copies of the exhibits. Exhibits are: 1: copy of the default notice and 2: copy of the letter from CL finance saying "We cannot get a copy of the agreement". (To prove to the Court that there is no copy of the agreement).

 

The first one by itself should get the claim struck out. The second one by itself should get the claim struck out. The two together in my opinion should 100% get the claim struck out. The third one is to add a bit more.

 

Could have added that they are also in breach of OFT guidelines but think that would be superflous.

 

Have fun.

 

Note: The dates for the s.77/s.78 application seem a bit strange. 2007 to HSBC and then 2008 reply from CL Finance. Have you got the right dates? Does not make that much difference really as you have that letter from CL Finance saying "no copy of the agreement" which is enough but, it is best to have the right dates on a statement.

 

Hi Nick,.

 

That was a late one! .

 

So, are you suggesting that the OP skips the ED route and goes for a full defence now (through Northampton???)

 

Might be worth giving the OP a few links to other threads where this has been used successfully so they can draw a balanced view.

 

IMHO I would have thought that, particularly due to the lack of factual information presented by the OC, it would be prudent at this stage to submit an ED and allow the OC a little more rope to hang themselves with.

 

M

Edited January 12, 2010 by MandM
Added a bit. ; )

[MandM]

MCOL word count is 8000 so plenty of scope there. Also, when the defence is returned to the court via online then THE COURT will serve the defence on the claimant - no need for 3 copies.

 

M

[MandM]

Have you read the draft defence? Is 8000 enough to cover 7 pages? Can you attach exhibits to MCOL?

 

Draft Def is only about 3500. Not sure about attaching exhibits. I'm sure others will comment.

 

M

[MandM]

Date on the claim form plus 5 days for service = 33 days. DON'T miss the date.

 

M

Edited January 12, 2010 by MandM
typo, fat fingers

[MandM]

So go for Friday! If your PC crashes or throws a wobbly on the last day then they may win by default through no fault of your own. Better safe than sorry (sound like my nan).

 

M

[MandM]

I believe the limit on filing with MCOL is 8000 CHARACTERS, not words. The draft defence is almost twice that size, partly because it includes the regulations and the judges words in the case law. Neither of these are required at this stage. The result is a defence document that is too long and quite often not relevant to the points at issue.

 

As to the procedure at Northampton, I doubt very much that any human being (let alone a judge) will get involved in the process. Even the insertion the name of the local court can be done electronically by reading the defendant's post code. It is far more likely that an automatic mailing of the defence is sent elecronically to the claimant's solicitor and the transfer papers issued.

 

There is an exemption to CPR 16 that applies to MCOL cases so that the exhibits do not have to be served with the claim form. If no documents are served separately by the claimant, IMO you should just file a short holding or 'embrassed' defence with Northamton and include a request to file an amended defence if and when the claimant supplies the documents.

 

Thanks Docman. 8000 words/charachters!!! Slight difference lol.

 

Totally agree that ED is the most suitable way forward at this time and then turn the screw from now to AQ.

 

M

[MandM]

 

Pretty straightforward holding defence & a strike out application to me.

 

Agree totally,

 

M

[MandM]

They said to enter the defence and it will be transferred automatically.

 

Then crack on with your defence, put it up on here when you're happy with it and i'm sure we'll be happy to pick holes in it for you.

 

M

[MandM]

IMO not at this stage. As pointed out previously you're only submitting a holding defence as they've given you little to defend. Then you can start on them

 

M

Edited January 12, 2010 by MandM
typo

[MandM]

Have a look back in Post 35 and adapt to suit.

 

M

[MandM]

Hi Gemz,

 

Cut and paste your defence up on here before you send it so some of the more experienced ladies and gents on Cag can have a look and comment before you send it.

 

Looks like there's been a fair few comments so best to make sure nothings been lost between the posts.

 

M

Edited January 13, 2010 by MandM

[MandM]

gh's point in post 83. Is it in?

 

M

[MandM]

Have you bothered reading previous posts?

 

Yep. Can see the defence on post 82. Can also see gh2008 suggestion in post 83. Can't see anywhere where it was picked up!! Was it?

 

As pointed out, this could be "a major point". OP needs to leave as many angles open to them as is possible.

 

M

Edited January 14, 2010 by MandM
added in bold

[MandM]

Post 83/84 refers to......

again, just my opinion but I would at least mention that the claimant is not actually entitled to issue a claim whilst in default of an S78 request. Not entitled to issue = strike out full stop no arguing no further defence needed.

 

This is actually a really major point and shows clear 'abuse of process' by the claimant.

 

Your reply in post 87 makes no reference to the Claimant being in default of a Sec 78 request. Just wondering if this is relevant for future reference.

 

M

[MandM]

Best of luck Gemz. Thats another nice nugget from gh.

 

Read up as much as you get time to on similar cases and post up any thoughts or questions. You'll find plenty of help on here.

 

As soon as you hear something back post it up also.

 

M

[MandM]

mmmm. Nicely put. Not going to answer myself, gave up at 'differate'.

 

wish you luck Gemz, look forward to further posts.

 

M

[MandM]

We received acknowledgement of defence, dated 13th January.

 

Well the next docs you receive is likely to be the Allocation Questioniarre. Has anything come back further to your CPR request out of interest?

 

M

[MandM]

Gemz

 

This is what you should be getting. Have a good read in advance and before you fill it if you have any questions ask. Also note that B asks you if you want to change the location. You have to make sure you change it to your local County Court. http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n150.pdf

 

Form will come from local court. No need to change anything.

 

M

Edited January 22, 2010 by MandM