Paragon Personal Finance: What to do????

[KJBoutcher]

Hi all,

 

Just got our statement back for a now closed account from Paragon and I have totalled up all the charges etc, including things like 'Arrears Letter' and 'Arrears Telephone Call' which comes in at a modest £185 (the account was only up and running a few years before we paid it all off).

 

However, my question is about the redemption penalty they slapped on at the end, a massive £2170.14! I guess the key word here is 'penalty'... Can I claim this sucker back along with the other charges? And what about the 'Admin Fee' of £150.00... That also seems quite disproportionate just to close an account down! Soooo.... Does anybody know the score, can I claim for the whole lot or just the charges?

 

Thanks to anyone who can help!

 

KJB

[Giveitback]

you paid a fee at the end of 2700? What did they tell you it was for when you paid it?

 

I'm thinking maybe, but it depends on what it is for. if it's a penalty for repaying early or something, then it's possible, but perhaps unlikely.

 

Best wishes!

[KJBoutcher]

you paid a fee at the end of 2700? What did they tell you it was for when you paid it?

 

I'm thinking maybe, but it depends on what it is for. if it's a penalty for repaying early or something, then it's possible, but perhaps unlikely.

 

Best wishes!

 

It was a redemption penalty for paying back the loan early (22 years early I might add). Can these be claimed back as they are blatantly penalties?

[jadest]

I am really sorry but I have no idea whether redemption charges can be claimed back. I think that you should be able to... No-one should get penalised for paying some-thing of early... Unless you had a fixed interest rate and agreed to redemtion fee

[KJBoutcher]

Okeydokey, been a while waiting to post back here as Paragon are taking it to the wire....

 

We have filed with MCOL for the redemption penalty and admin fees and Paragon have refused to budge. Time ticks on, their solicitors are now sending letters and hello, whats this? A cheque for the admin fees (£150) which they said they'd never refund?

 

So, after MCOLing them they have sent a cheque for part of what we are after. How does this affect the claim though as the amount submitted to MCOL will obviously incude this £150? Does it make any difference?

 

They have also asked that the case be stayed too, pending the outcome of a few other claims (ladymoonray and susanmom I believe).

[tamadus]

Okeydokey, been a while waiting to post back here as Paragon are taking it to the wire....

 

We have filed with MCOL for the redemption penalty and admin fees and Paragon have refused to budge. Time ticks on, their solicitors are now sending letters and hello, whats this? A cheque for the admin fees (£150) which they said they'd never refund?

 

So, after MCOLing them they have sent a cheque for part of what we are after. How does this affect the claim though as the amount submitted to MCOL will obviously incude this £150? Does it make any difference?

 

They have also asked that the case be stayed too, pending the outcome of a few other claims (ladymoonray and susanmom I believe).

 

I would simply write to the court to record that a part settlement of £150 has been sent. It's usually better to keep them informed of these things as a judge wont like any surprises.

[KJBoutcher]

I would simply write to the court to record that a part settlement of £150 has been sent. It's usually better to keep them informed of these things as a judge wont like any surprises.

 

Thanks for that info, I have since been to the court and dropped off the AQ with the £100 fee and also a letter detailing the £150 refund... Now we sit and wait. Again.

[zootscoot]

Hi KJ

 

Are you are of the recent events with ERCs?

 

See here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgage-companies/62003-important-erc-claimants-please.html

 

I'll move your thread to the mortgage forum where it belongs!

 

Best wishes

 

Zoot

[KJBoutcher]

Hi KJ

 

Are you are of the recent events with ERCs?

 

See here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgage-companies/62003-important-erc-claimants-please.html

 

I'll move your thread to the mortgage forum where it belongs!

 

Best wishes

 

Zoot

 

Thanks for that Zoot! Got it.

 

Obviously you'll all be aware of the Ladymoonray Vs Paragon tale, to which I was also party too at court a few weeks a go. It's sad to hear Lady M is not going to continue with the fight but I can totally understand her reasons. Paragon's solicitors are a real slimy bunch and the stresses are many.

 

However, as my case was stayed at that hearing, I do think there may well be slight room for progress because of one very key factor. The ERC I have gone after, as I think I have mentioned elsewhere, is listed on the statement I received from Paragon as 'Penalty Int. On Redemption' and it's because of this very specific wording that my case has been treated differently.

 

At the court Paragon's solicitor said that because of this my case was 'unusual' and that the document I received could possibly have been sent in error because of the 'admission' it was indeed a penalty...

 

But this is where it gets murky. Having spoken to P's solicitor and valiantly put my case to the judge that it says penalty so thats what it is, the solicitor retorts that 'just because it says penalty doesn't meant in the eyes of the law it will be viewed as a penalty'. That seems very much like moving the goal posts to suit themselves if you ask me. Because my case is significantly different because of this little tiny word, I don't think it should have been stayed, and argued as such, but the judge decided otherwise.

 

I did suggest that it would be like saying the sky is actually pink when obviously it is blue. "We can SEE the sky is blue". "No, even thougn we can SEE it's blue, you are mistaken. Its pink. The law says its pink". Arrgh! The frustration! So I have this paperwork with this very specific term on it that could make or break the whole case... and it got stayed pending the outcome of Lady M's case which now won't happen.

 

So my questions are these: Does anybody else out there have the same definition on their stament as I do? Does yours also say 'Penlaty int. On Redemption'? It would be interesting to see!

 

Also, where the heck do I go from here now? It would seem that as Lady M is not proceeding I could be in line to try my hand in court.

 

Anybody got any much needed suggestions? PLEEEEASE?

[zootscoot]

Hi KJ,

Unfortunately in order to get on to the question of whether or not the charge is a penalty you have to get over the no breach argument.

Also the fact that the parties call the charge a penalty is not conclusive as the following quote from Lord Dunedin in Dunlop v New Garage demonstrates.

 

1. Though the parties to a contract who use the words ‘penalty’ or ‘liquidated damages’ may prima facie be supposed to mean what they say, yet the expression used is not conclusive. The Court must find out whether the payment stipulated is in truth a penalty or liquidated damages. This doctrine may be said to be found passim in nearly every case.

 

Has your claim be allocated yet?

[KJBoutcher]

Hi KJ,

Unfortunately in order to get on to the question of whether or not the charge is a penalty you have to get over the no breach argument.

Also the fact that the parties call the charge a penalty is not conclusive as the following quote from Lord Dunedin in Dunlop v New Garage demonstrates.

 

 

Has your claim be allocated yet?

 

Hi Zoot,

Yep it has been allocated to the multi tarck but stayed pending the outcome of Ladymoonray's Paragon nightmare. What joy.

 

KJB

[zootscoot]

Did they offer you the no costs options they did with Lady Moonray?

[KJBoutcher]

Did they offer you the no costs options they did with Lady Moonray?

 

Yes they did and also with the 'liberty to restore'.