Whats the lowest full & final settlement?

[benboy]

Hi all. I have three credit cards on a debt management plan and I am lucky enough to have received a small windfall. I phoned Barclaycard today to ask for my balance and then asked what address I should send a f+f s offer to. She replied....."Barclaycard to not offer Full and Final Settlement, we have a collections department instead". So do I believe her or just write off with my offer? I also would like your opinions about percentages my creditors are likely to accept. My creditors are Lloyds tsb credit card, MBNA credit card and Barclaycard. I have in total about £11,500 in debt with them and wish to pay off with as little as £4,000.

 

Oh and also... how do I start a new thread? I can't see any "start new thread" button.

 

Thanks in advance

[PriorityOne]

To start a new thread, you choose the forum you want to go into and you'll see the "new thread" button at the top.

 

Don't make any offers to B/cd until you get proper advice on this.

[benboy]

To start a new thread, you choose the forum you want to go into and you'll see the "new thread" button at the top.

 

Don't make any offers to B/cd until you get proper advice on this.

 

'appen, but what contitutes as proper advice? I have a template letter from National Debtline and have also phoned CCCS regarding full and final settlemnt offers. They said be as cheeky as you can and start low (10%). Also get in writing first and get 3rd party to make payment. Also tell the creditor to make an entry on credit record that the debt is settled.

 

I'm off to get a printer cartridge now

[PriorityOne]

'appen, but what contitutes as proper advice? I have a template letter from National Debtline and have also phoned CCCS regarding full and final settlemnt offers. They said be as cheeky as you can and start low (10%). Also get in writing first and get 3rd party to make payment. Also tell the creditor to make an entry on credit record that the debt is settled.

 

I'm off to get a printer cartridge now

 

Depends on the advice you were offered from CCCS/National debtline. Not all advice is good advice.... same as at the CAB. The advice you've stated above however seems fair.

 

[benboy]

Thanks, I'm going to use National debtlines template letter for this.

 

Oh, btw I was also advised to "say the money is from a relative and ask them to pay on your behalf". Have heard this makes it more legally binding and tha advisor at CCCS said it can encourage the creditors to be more flexible.

 

Fingers crossed I don't have to go too high with my offers.

[Bigdebtor]

Benboy

 

There are templates in CAG and Martin Lewis's sites which I would use in preference to National Debt Line or CCCS.

 

Don't be fooled into giving them a details of your debts and your income/expenditure. Just tell them how much pro-rata you can afford to repay either monthly (with interest frozen) or as a low % short settlement. I take it you have ascertained the agreements are actually enforceable before parting with any of YOUR or YOUR RELATIVE'S money?

 

BD

[benboy]

Benboy

 

There are templates in CAG and Martin Lewis's sites which I would use in preference to National Debt Line or CCCS.

 

Don't be fooled into giving them a details of your debts and your income/expenditure. Just tell them how much pro-rata you can afford to repay either monthly (with interest frozen) or as a low % short settlement. I take it you have ascertained the agreements are actually enforceable before parting with any of YOUR or YOUR RELATIVE'S money?

 

BD

 

Hi Bigdebtor, my creditors were told of my expenditure about 2years ago when I set up my DMP with CCCS and I am not prepared to go through that with them again anyway. No I have not ascertained the agreements are enforceable. What good will it do to find out if the debts are enforceable anyway? They rarely get written off from what I have heard. No-one on this forum can seem to agree on why you would find out whether or not it's enforceable or not. I also don't want to go to court again. RBS took me to court for a final charging order on my house and the judge nor anyone else ever mentioned whether or not the agreement was enforceable or not. In fact, the advice I got from both CCCS and National Debtline was that it's likely the charging order will go ahead anyway. To be honest I just want rid of my debts now, I have had enough and can't carry on like this. The CCA seems like a mindfield and I don't have the energy for that anymore.

[Bigdebtor]

Benboy

 

1. If the CCA is unenforceable it CAN'T be enforced - at least as the Law currently stands - and after 6 years it will be statute barred - so worth finding out. OK the CRA's will crucify your Credit Rating for 6 years - but this has probably happened already.

2. If you ask for CCA and they can't find it - or they realise it's unenforceable, you are much more likely to be able to negotiate a very low short settlement - if you want earlier peace of mind.

3. CCCS and National Debtline are not as independent as you might think - they seem mainly just to want to get an affordable payment plan agreed - so the creditors (who fund them) get paid back - albeit very slowly.

4. Sending for CCA's and doing the SAR is not so difficult or stressful if you think what the end result could be - debt free earlier and at lower cost.

5. I presume you have already deducted all unfair charges and contractual interest from credit card debt balances? If not, then you should do so before any negotiating on short F&F settlements.

 

BD

[PriorityOne]

No I have not ascertained the agreements are enforceable. What good will it do to find out if the debts are enforceable anyway? They rarely get written off from what I have heard. No-one on this forum can seem to agree on why you would find out whether or not it's enforceable or not. If they are unenforceable, then they cannot be legally enforced basically. Although they may not get written off as such, they are uncollectable through the courts, which amounts to the same thing. You will always get differences of opinion over this one, but unless you're particularly bothered about fighting unlawful defaults on your credit file (which often occur as a result), then it's worth checking out whether any company has an enforceable CCA.... in my opinion.

 

I also don't want to go to court again. RBS took me to court for a final charging order on my house They would have needed a CCJ first... If you'd have known how to defend a CCJ at that time, you may not have ended up with a Charging Order... and the judge nor anyone else ever mentioned whether or not the agreement was enforceable or not. Well, they wouldn't... In fact, the advice I got from both CCCS and National Debtline was that it's likely the charging order will go ahead anyway.Classic example of really cack advice.... To be honest I just want rid of my debts now, I have had enough and can't carry on like this. The CCA seems like a mindfield and I don't have the energy for that anymore.

 

It's not a minefield, providing you have the support of CAG. The decision is yours however.

 

[Bigdebtor]

I couldn't agree more. Please Benboy - don't just roll over and let them sh*t all over you! The fight is NOT that difficult with CAG support!

 

BD

[benboy]

Hi Priorityone. I tried to fight the ccj/interim/final charging order myself. There were to be 2 court cases - one for the final charging order and the other was my appeal. I took time off work to attend the final charging order hearing. The judge was all nicey nicey to RBS's solicitor and spoke to me like sh*t. She said I am seeing you in 2 weeks time for the other hearing so I might as well see you then and deal with it all together. Before the 2 weeks was up I received a letter to say the hearing was to be ajourned and will be advised of a new date in the near future. Guess what?........ I received a letter from the court saying that a final charging order was granted and they stated on the form that the defendant didn't attend. So the hearing went ahead without me being told! I complained to the court office by phone, who admitted they sent me a notice of ajournment but said I had to write to the judge. I complained to the judge in writing and all I got was a copy of the court's letter from RBS's solicitors stating they have received my complaint. I have heard nothing since. I am disgusted that these pompous tw*ts get away with this!

 

Anyway... back to the "enforceabilty" route. #from what you have said, it wont make much difference to my credit score anyway as it's already been wrecked.

 

I am not yet in receipt of my money from my relative (share of inheritance) but I have drafted a full and final settlement letter and done a chart based on pro=rata offers. I am being cheeky but I don't care... I'm offering £2000 to pay off £17500 which is just over 10%. I aim to start low and only very very slowly after asking for reconsiderations will I increase the amount. I will not rush into this until I have my money though. Yes I did know the CCCS was funded by financial institutions but my advice today was to be as cheeky as possible when making F+FS offers and by all means start at 10%, I suppose it depends on which advisor one speaks to... she was very nice to be honest.

 

Bigdebtor...ok, I see what you mean and I will send letters out demanding CCA's from all my creditors whilst I await my money. But please tell me if the fact RBS now have a CCJ/final charging order against me means the court say the debt is enforceable as it is the court who say I have to make and continue with my payments??? OhBigdebtor.. yes indeed I had my interest stopped more than 2 years ago on all my credit cards under the debt management plan. MBNA was a toughie but got there in the end. They once offered me an unprompted settlement of £2500 for a debt of over £8000 but I was unable to make the offer... then they said they could lend me the money with one of their loans!!! haha!

 

Thanks for your support guys it is really appreciated.

Edited December 14, 2009 by benboy

[Bigdebtor]

Benboy

 

I am interested in what you say about MBNA. I had 4 of their cards (two had been Alliance & Leicester originally) and found MBNA was the EASIEST OC to deal with - offering me 35% F&F on all 4 cards - saving £23k on a debt of £34k. I couldn't take it up initially - but when I got the money from family they did agree to the original deal. I now suspect they didn't have enforceable CCA's - so while it was good to see £23k written off - not paying the other £11k either would have been much better. This was before I knew about CAG - and I could probably have got about £8k in charges etc. taken off the original £34k before negotiating the 35% F&F.

 

I have heard that MBNA destroyed loads of records around 2005-2006 - so maybe you won't need to pay them a penny after all?

 

Regarding RBS - I really don't know - but I would have thought you should have been given a copy of all the papers they showed the court - and without a signed CCA they should not have had the debt enforced in court. Now we own 80% of RBS it might be worth talking to your MP about RBS?

 

Good luck. Nil illegitimi carborundum!

 

BD

[benboy]

Hi bigdebtor. Yes I found MBNA very interesting, if not infuriating. When I set up my debt management plan with the guidance of CCCS they were the only ones who refused to freeze charges and interest. They wanted more money than the pro-rata agreement for repayment allowed. CCCS would not budge either so I eventually went independent and carried on with my payments CCCS set up but paid MBNA extra as this debt with them was getting bigger. I am no longer with CCCS and am doing ok'ish with payments. They sometimes request an expediture document from me unless my situation has not changed (I just make out it hasn't). But beleive me they can be very crafty and bordering on harrassing! When they wanted more money, they used to send me formal letters and then I used to get weird postcards (i think posted in Eire) with poppies and scenery on them!!! Not even telling me who sent them but asking me to phone them!!! I recently heard from them saying I am no longer in default and yet they still don't charge me interest! I asked them at the time they offered £2500 for settlement if they would make an entry on the credit file as "satisfied" but they said no we won't do that.

 

Wow, that's interesting to hear about MBNA getting rid of documents etc, maybe my luck is in with them. Shame you didn't know about this back then B.D. I can't wait to send my CCA letters off now. So if I don't hear from them or they don't send me a CCA can I just cancel my Direct Debit to them? Seems a bit too easy.

 

Hmm, I don't know about talking to my MP about RBS.

 

Thanks BD

Edited December 15, 2009 by benboy

[Bigdebtor]

Hi bigdebtor.

 

Wow, that's interesting to hear about MBNA getting rid of documents etc, maybe my luck is in with them. Shame you didn't know about this back then B.D. I can't wait to send my CCA letters off now. So if I don't hear from them or they don't send me a CCA can I just cancel my Direct Debit to them? Seems a bit too easy.

 

Hmm, I don't know about talking to my MP about RBS.

 

Thanks BD

 

Benboy

 

If MBNA can't or don't send the CCA I would send the "account in dispute" letters and definitely stop paying - so the 6 year SB period starts ticking and they can't enforce (but will pester and threaten) without an enforceable CCA signed by you. If they threaten court action then send the correct "cpr" template to force them to reveal what they have - but first step is CCA and also ASAP you should reclaim charges and associated contractual interest (send SAR if you don't have your statements) to get balance down (possibly to zero - or them owing YOU).

 

Re RBS - I don't see what you have to lose by getting your MP (as your "shareholder rep" ) involved - maybe also bounce it off FOS if they have got the CCJ without an enforceable CCA?

[benboy]

BD

 

cpr?

 

Yes, one step at a time. I will feel no guilt if I stop payments, especially MBNA, they have had so much of my money and caused me lots of grief.

Edited December 15, 2009 by benboy

[Bigdebtor]

BD

 

cpr?

 

.

 

Benboy

 

I can't remember what cpr stands for - but basically it is asking them to show what evidence they have before going to court.

 

You can point out that unless you have the original document you won't know if it was compliant with the CCA legislation, so you need to have a true copy of te original - not a reconstituted copy. I got this from one thread and think it is good because it is not too legal but shows you know your rights.

 

If the lender fails to supply it on request, then you should write to them setting out that you need the agreement to assess if it was properly executed.

 

You should point out to them that…

 

1.By disclosing the original agreement it may avoid the need for any proceedings because a cards on the table approach will be taken by each party. Currently the Creditors

will have failed to do this and will have ignored your requests to do so.

2.Furthermore disclosure will assist the dispute to be resolved without proceedings being necessary because once disclosure is given each party can see the strengths of their respective cases and informed negotiations may then be undertaken with the aim being to agree settlement without the need for proceedings to be issued.

3.It will also save costs because full proceedings may not be necessary. You will not need to continue to write unnecessary letters reminding the proposed Defendant to disclose documents. Both parties can deal with the claim more quickly and economically.

You should also enclose a copy of your original request for the documents with the second letter, that way they cannot claim not to have received your requests. Send by special delivery so that you have proof of posting and receipt.

 

THIS IS ANOTHER MORE FORMAL/THREATENING TACK in one thread using Money Laundering Rules:

 

It is not unreasonable to expect the defendant, Barclaycard, a licensed consumer credit entity with 23.3m credit card customers globally and 29.2 million credit cards in issue to have a highly sophisticated and efficient filing and archiving system to fulfill its obligations under the Money Laundering Regulations 2007. Such regulations allow a financial institution to rely on the previous creditor to have undertaken the original due diligence on a debtor, but under para 17(1)(b) they are not permitted to rely on it. However, as I have already mentioned, on [date 1] and again on [date 2], I wrote to Barclaycard to let them know that I was not who they apparently thought I was. Since then, they have made no attempt to identify me or carry out any supplemental due diligence as required of them under para 7(1)(d): “…a relevant person must apply customer due diligence measures when he…doubts the veracity or adequacy of documents, data or information previously obtained for the purposes of identification or verification”.

 

In addition, para 19 (Record Keeping) requires the creditor to keep records, being a copy of, or references to, the evidence of the customer’s identity obtained, and the supporting records (consisting of the original documents or copies) in respect of a business relationship… which is the subject of customer due diligence measures or ongoing monitoring.

 

Therefore I have no doubt that Barclaycard would have these records. There is no reason for me to reasonably believe that they do not hold such information, following acquisition of the credit card business from Morgan Stanley/Goldfish, because this is their clear obligation.

 

If the defendant is claiming that I have intentionally withheld information in order to frustrate matters, I reject this claim and would suggest that he is also implicitly claiming that Barclaycard have not fulfilled their statutory obligations under the Money Laundering Regulations 2007, which has potential civil penalties and is also a criminal offence – in particular, not complying with the requirements in regulations 7(1) and 19(1), which apparently, have not been done

 

Hope this helps.

 

BD

 

 

PS If it helps - tip my scales!

[Dotty50]

CPR = Civil Procedures Rules

 

That's as much as I can tell you.

[Bigdebtor]

Thanks Dotty.

 

I just could not remember. I think I have a mental block in associating the word "civil" with any of this shower!

 

BD

[benboy]

Hey thanks for the advice BD and Dotty. Ok, but if they don't send me the CCA/correct CCA then why bother doing anything else? Is it really necessary? Please forgive my naivity here. From what I hear about MBNA, they are a law unto themselves. Surely by now they know where they stand if they no longer have the origional copy of the agreement ...in the sh*t, as regards their persuit for further payments. They can either take us to court for it or not... either way they don't have a leg to stand on.

 

Also I would like to know where we stand if we stop payments after the 12+2 days are up and no CCA arrives and then it turns up. Is it the mere fact that the document was late arriving that puts an account into dispute??? I don;t understand as surely, even if the CCA turned up late (asuming it is all correct) it does make the debt enforceable and acknowledges there is an agreement and therefore a debt. From what I can gather, all the creditor has done is not abided by the act.

 

I just don't want to get all cosy and think all is good then the CCA does turn up and I have to start paying to these bullies (esp MBNA)

Edited December 15, 2009 by benboy

[benboy]

I must apologise... I am sorry, I seem to be going on about CCAs and have hijacked this thread. It's supposed to be about lowest final settlement offers.

Any chance of getting it moved please?

[Bigdebtor]

Benboy

 

If you want to play safe then why not pay another monthly payment while awaiting the CCA - then put into dispute if still not there? If it was done before 2006 I bet they won't have it. If it turns up they'll still negotiate affordable repayments as they know they are not priority debts and bottom of the queue.

 

BD

[benboy]

Hi BD, I am already on affordable payments. This is not my concern. Will it still help my bargaining power with regards a F+FS? I hope you are right about them not having the agreement. If my memory serves me correct I had the mbna cards before 2003 and skycard/barclays LoydsTSB well before 2007... so fingers crossed.

Edited December 15, 2009 by benboy

[Bigdebtor]

Benboy

 

Once they know you're no pushover it can only help you negotiate a better F&F - that's IF they actually have an enforceable CCA.

 

BD

[benboy]

Well BD and Priorityone, I have got my £1 postal orders today and am just waiting on my new ink cartridge.... then away we go with the CCA requests. I have been given £10,000 from a relative as a gift and I want to use as little of that as possible as I am in desperate need of new carpets and stuff for my house, but when I have a debt of £17,200 (not including a secured Halifax loan with balance of £8,300) it seemed a long shot... but from reading posts and threads on here, my £10,000 could go along way!

[benboy]

Have cancelled my direct debit with MBNA, at least til they send my CCA. The others I have no issue with but have sent them a CCA request anyway as it could be a bargaining tool for F+FS's. Will just have to wait now.