Claim Stayed – Due to Unenforceable CCA Test Cases.

[gaz2006]

Pursuant to new legislation even if the Agreements are enforceable (post them up) you can make an application for a time order (post default)....hit them before they hit you with a Judgment.

 

PW

 

never heard of time order whats that

[the_shadow]

never heard of time order whats that

 

Not sure why its been referred to as new, its been around a while its just the threshold on maximum amounts has been increased.

 

a Time order allows you to request a judge to set possibly lower repayments/longer repayment term or even less interest on a debt. This can be secured or unsecured debt but mostly its in the secured debt arena.

 

However where a creditor (credit card firm) and a debtor cant agree suitable repayments its possible to ask for a time order once you have been defaulted and prior to court action.

 

If court action has started you would normally ask for a variance on repayment if you have lost your case.

 

http://www.insolvencyhelpline.co.uk/debt_factsheets/time_orders.php

S.

Edited January 15, 2010 by the_shadow
That was quicker than i expected :-)

[tifo]

---------------------

Careful !!!

 

I'd show it to the Police.

 

John Story

 

What you on about?

 

It's on/was on the company's website (stating 10%) but later i read they normally pay between 3-6% on many debt purchases.

[tifo]

Not sure why its been referred to as new, its been around a while its just the threshold on maximum amounts has been increased.

 

a Time order allows you to request a judge to set possibly lower repayments/longer repayment term or even less interest on a debt. This can be secured or unsecured debt but mostly its in the secured debt arena

 

Is this the sort of thing those autonomous telemarketing phone calls talk about? Many usually state Relief Order because of new legislation since 6 April.

[the_shadow]

Is this the sort of thing those autonomous telemarketing phone calls talk about? Many usually state Relief Order because of new legislation since 6 April.

 

I doubt it, they will only go for things they can charge fees on dont they

 

This can be applied for by anyone so far as the agreement is a regulated CCA agreement.

 

Debt Relief orders and IVA's are something completely different and give debtors a chance to get part of the debt written off.

 

S.

[tifo]

yes, the calls talk about a Debt Relief Order as important new legislation to possibly write off all your debts.

 

how can i stop these calls? i get about 4 a day.

[ruinedbynatwest]

What you on about?

 

It's on/was on the company's website (stating 10%) but later i read they normally pay between 3-6% on many debt purchases.

----------------

 

I was referring to PaulW's "deed" and to whether it may be of interest to the Police ?

 

John Story

 

www.ruinedbynatwest.com

[angry cat]

-----------------

Bit off thread but relevant,

We are aware that a number of DCA's have bought questionable ie possibly unenforceable CCA regulated accounts at knock down prices. Now, what we don't know is who knew what, and when, during the negotiated sale of these CCA regulated credit agreements in the regard of their unenforceability ? IE was there full disclosure ?

 

Criminal law require that both the wrongful deed (Reus Actus) and the guilty mind (mens rea) be proved to secure a proper conviction.

 

IE - We do not know whether these (alleged) debts (ie unenforceable) were sold "in good faith" ( whether the seller was transparent on the issue of enforceability) or whether there are potentially criminal fraud issues where the accounts were not sold in good faith. Also, If these accounts were sold in good faith as unenforceable, were the individual debtors subsequently notified by the DCA's that they were being chased for unenforceable accounts ?

 

These are matters that would have interested my Dear old dad when he served on the Serious Crime Squad. These are matters which interest me because HHJ Jack QC, during the Story trial,opined that "if Natwest knew it had a problem with the CCA, the last person it would tell would be you [ie me, Story]. It would hand the matter over to its lawyers to sort it out "

 

John Story

 

www.ruinedbynatwest.com

 

Big, mixed, buckets of toxic debt;

debt buyers have no idea about what they are buying;

some will be good, some bad;

this I believe is similar to the sub-prime mortgage off loading.

 

Basically, and at the end of the day, they get what they pay for...

[paulwlton]

[andrew1]

-----------------

Bit off thread but relevant,

We are aware that a number of DCA's have bought questionable ie possibly unenforceable CCA regulated accounts at knock down prices. Now, what we don't know is who knew what, and when, during the negotiated sale of these CCA regulated credit agreements in the regard of their unenforceability ? IE was there full disclosure ?

 

Criminal law require that both the wrongful deed (Reus Actus) and the guilty mind (mens rea) be proved to secure a proper conviction.

 

IE - We do not know whether these (alleged) debts (ie unenforceable) were sold "in good faith" ( whether the seller was transparent on the issue of enforceability) or whether there are potentially criminal fraud issues where the accounts were not sold in good faith. Also, If these accounts were sold in good faith as unenforceable, were the individual debtors subsequently notified by the DCA's that they were being chased for unenforceable accounts ?

 

These are matters that would have interested my Dear old dad when he served on the Serious Crime Squad. These are matters which interest me because HHJ Jack QC, during the Story trial,opined that "if Natwest knew it had a problem with the CCA, the last person it would tell would be you [ie me, Story]. It would hand the matter over to its lawyers to sort it out "

 

John Story

 

www.ruinedbynatwest.com

 

 

In the sales deeds we obtained about the Cabot deals with various banks, the script in those stated the debts were provided along with 2 cd's which contained name, address, Account number, Amount and contact details, any further details would be supplied at £2 a shot....so nothing was known by Cabot about the history of the accounts, the agreements, nothing, just enough for their monkeys to pick up the phone and do what they did best - annoy everyone and breach most of the OFT guidelines. They were something like the amounts shown in Pauls document above too - tens of thousands of accounts at a time!

[paulwlton]

Not sure why its been referred to as new, its been around a while its just the threshold on maximum amounts has been increased.

 

a Time order allows you to request a judge to set possibly lower repayments/longer repayment term or even less interest on a debt. This can be secured or unsecured debt but mostly its in the secured debt arena.

 

However where a creditor (credit card firm) and a debtor cant agree suitable repayments its possible to ask for a time order once you have been defaulted and prior to court action.

 

To clarify. The new legislation started in October 2008 and provides that debtors are able to apply to the court for a time order after being sent an arrears notice, rather than having to wait until the stage at which a default notice is served which used to be the case.

 

Hope this helps.

 

PW

[angry cat]

Not sure why its been referred to as new, its been around a while its just the threshold on maximum amounts has been increased.

 

a Time order allows you to request a judge to set possibly lower repayments/longer repayment term or even less interest on a debt. This can be secured or unsecured debt but mostly its in the secured debt arena.

 

However where a creditor (credit card firm) and a debtor cant agree suitable repayments its possible to ask for a time order once you have been defaulted and prior to court action.

 

If court action has started you would normally ask for a variance on repayment if you have lost your case.

 

Debt Factsheets - Time Orders

S.

 

CCA 2006:

 

16 Time orders

(1) In subsection (1) of section 129 of the 1974 Act (time orders) before paragraph

© insert—

“(ba) on an application made by a debtor or hirer under this

paragraph after he has been given a notice under section 86B or

86C; or”.

(2) After that section insert—

“129A Debtor or hirer to give notice of intent etc. to creditor or owner

(1) A debtor or hirer may make an application under section 129(1)(ba) in

relation to a regulated agreement only if—

(a) following his being given the notice under section 86B or 86C,

he gave a notice within subsection (2) to the creditor or owner;

and

(b) a period of at least 14 days has elapsed after the day on which

he gave that notice to the creditor or owner.

(2) A notice is within this subsection if it—

(a) indicates that the debtor or hirer intends to make the

application;

(b) indicates that he wants to make a proposal to the creditor or

owner in relation to his making of payments under the

agreement; and

© gives details of that proposal.”

Consumer 12 Credit Act 2006 (c. 14)

(3) In section 143(b) of that Act (provision which may be made by rules of court in

Northern Ireland) after “129(1)(b)” insert “or (ba)”.

(4) In section 32(1) of the Sheriff Courts (Scotland) Act 1971 (c. 58) (regulation of

civil procedure in sheriff court) after paragraph (l) insert—

“(m) permitting the debtor or hirer in proceedings for—

(i) a time order under section 129 of the Consumer Credit

Act 1974 (time orders), or

(ii) variation or revocation, under section 130(6) of that Act

(variation and revocation of time orders), of a time order

made under section 129,

to be represented by a person who is neither an advocate nor a

solicitor.”

(5) In section 32(2B) of the Solicitors (Scotland) Act 1980 (c. 46) (offence for

unqualified persons to prepare certain documents)—

(a) after “represent” insert “—(a)”;

(b) after “cause” insert—

“(b) a debtor or hirer in proceedings for—

(i) a time order under section 129 of the Consumer Credit

Act 1974 (time orders); or

(ii) variation or revocation, under section 130(6) of that Act

(variation and revocation of time orders), of a time order

made under section 129”.

[Demonbarb]

Its all gone a bit quiet on this thread. Baggio mentioned earlier that in the first 2 weeks of January the results of this judgement would become clearer and in the consumers favour, form where I am sitting it isn't. Does anyone have anything they can post about the current situation re unenforceability and if they have had any success post December's judgement?

[the_shadow]

 

To clarify. The new legislation started in October 2008 and provides that debtors are able to apply to the court for a time order after being sent an arrears notice, rather than having to wait until the stage at which a default notice is served which used to be the case.

 

Hope this helps.

 

PW

 

Thanks PW, (didnt see the update till now)

 

Happy to be corrected and brought up to date

 

S.

[Peterbard]

Its all gone a bit quiet on this thread. Baggio mentioned earlier that in the first 2 weeks of January the results of this judgement would become clearer and in the consumers favour, form where I am sitting it isn't. Does anyone have anything they can post about the current situation re unenforceability and if they have had any success post December's judgement?

 

 

Hi

Dont really see what difference the judjement has made really just confired what we already new.

 

The only important implication as far as i can see is that the none requirement of the orriginal for the purposse of reconstructing a true copy, may also be taken that the same technique can be used to provide a proof positive of the correct execution of the agreement. I suppose that has yet to be shown.

 

Petr

[IainHL]

rw-deed1

I have to laugh at the way they can't even get that contract right!

 

Read it carefully, it says 0.0978p in the £, that is less than a tenth of a penny technically. It should really say £0.0978 in the £, or 9.78p in the £. It is only the fact the the sum to be paid is actually stated directly that the true proportion can be ascertained.

[Bigdebtor]

I think we should tell poor old Cabot that they have just been shafted and become (another) victim of the Banks! Paying 100 times more than agreed in the contract! My heart bleeds!!!!

 

BD

[seriously fed up]

Its all gone a bit quiet on this thread. Baggio mentioned earlier that in the first 2 weeks of January the results of this judgement would become clearer and in the consumers favour, form where I am sitting it isn't. Does anyone have anything they can post about the current situation re unenforceability and if they have had any success post December's judgement?

 

yes, how are things progressing Baggio. The other side seem to be taking advantage of the Manchester judgement - and McGuffick - so when will the response be forthcoming?

[Baggio]

yes, how are things progressing Baggio. The other side seem to be taking advantage of the Manchester judgement - and McGuffick - so when will the response be forthcoming?

 

a large number of cases have had proceedings against lenders issued this month, the response is more than forthcoming.

 

i personally know of over 1500 cases that have been issued this month, all 1500+ cases had sec 77/78 disclosures that did not meet the requirements of the waksman judgement.

 

each of these cases had a barristers opinion wrapped around them following the waksman judgement.

 

i fully expect a very large percentage of these cases to be settled out of court.

Edited January 19, 2010 by Baggio
spelling

[paulwlton]

I understand the Carey case is going to full trial with disclosure prior to the 02 Feb.

[the_shadow]

i personally know of over 1500 cases that have been issued this month, all 1500+ cases had sec 77/78 disclosures that did not meet the requirements of the waksman judgement.

 

:eek: and is it any wonder why crapone has just bombarded customers with almost double apr% raises.

 

S.

[Baggio]

I understand the Carey case is going to full trial with disclosure prior to the 02 Feb.

[Docman]

Well i'm glad about that. I've just had some good news and didn't want the Carey case to spoil matters.

 

I've been fighting HSBC for 18 months. They issued a N1 through Northampton and admitted in their SJ application they couldn't find the CCA. The SJ aspplication was thrown out but the case proceeded. HSBC put in their amended POCs before Christmas. I half expected that they would drag matters out until Carey was settled but the judge in my case has surprised me. After reading the POC only, he has struck out the claim (but no order for costs though).

[creditman09]

To gain a solicitors viewpoint have a look at Emmetts Solicitors web site under the heading Consumer Credit.

[Baggio]

:eek: and is it any wonder why crapone has just bombarded customers with almost double apr% raises.

 

S.

 

sorry, i meant over 1500 cases on behalf of consumers that had been issued against the lenders.