Lloyds CCA - paperwork rcvd back from Lloyds

[twinkle1977]

Hi all

 

Got an old debt with Lloyds for a loan. Defaulted on my file (old debt).

 

I have been paying each month direct to Lloyds and CCA'd them

 

They sent my signed agreement, with terms and DD instruction to me.

 

Couple of questions I have are:

 

1) it shows payment protection has been added - is there something I can do with regards to this - i remember some story about this being incorrectly sold?

 

2) there is no statement of account, no paperwork other than original agreement. Should I receive some other bits from them?

 

Thanks

[katpuss]

Hi all

 

Got an old debt with Lloyds for a loan. Defaulted on my file (old debt).

 

I have been paying each month direct to Lloyds and CCA'd them

 

They sent my signed agreement, with terms and DD instruction to me.

 

Couple of questions I have are:

 

1) it shows payment protection has been added - is there something I can do with regards to this - i remember some story about this being incorrectly sold?

 

2) there is no statement of account, no paperwork other than original agreement. Should I receive some other bits from them?

 

Thanks

 

I remember when the PPI misselling issue came up a few years ago. When was the payment protection added?

 

Are you able to scan a copy of the agreement and post here so that us caggers can take a look at it for you? If so remember to blank out your personal details for security.

 

I think to get a statement of account you need to SAR them.

[twinkle1977]

Thanks Katpuss

 

I got the paperwork in my bag and meant to copy it at work today and cross out my personal bits.

 

The loan was 2002 - i'll scan it in and post it up tomorrow.

 

Thanks!

[katpuss]

No worries Twinkle

[twinkle1977]

Hi all

 

Paperwork rcvd back from Lloyds after my CCA request

 

Any comments?

Anything to do with the payment protection I can do?

 

Thanks!

Lloyds.pdf

[vint1954]

Hi all

 

Paperwork rcvd back from Lloyds after my CCA request

 

Any comments?

Anything to do with the payment protection I can do?

 

Thanks!

Yes, you can make a claim for the PPI payment and the interest on that.

 

If you search the forum for PPI claim, have a read how others have gone about it.

 

Vint

[twinkle1977]

Thanks vint1954 - what do you think about the paperwork they sent back? Is it complete for paperwork to be received after requesting a CCA or do I need to go back to them for more "bits" (statements etc?)

 

Thanks again!

[vint1954]

Thanks vint1954 - what do you think about the paperwork they sent back? Is it complete for paperwork to be received after requesting a CCA or do I need to go back to them for more "bits" (statements etc?)

 

Thanks again!

They should provide a signed statement of the account.

 

True copy of any agreement

 

Historic Terms and conditions from when the account was opened.

 

Current terms and conditions.

 

Go back to them.

[vint1954]

You can adapt this letter.

 

Dear xxxxxxxxx,

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Re account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I write regarding recent communication regarding the above account.

Further to my request under the above act, your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is now subject to a serious dispute. On xxxxxxxx, by recorded delivery, I requested that you supply me a copy of the executed credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78, a copy of this request is enclosed. To date you have failed to comply with my request. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I have to date only received terms and conditions from yourselves.

Contrary to your assertion, xxxxxxxx have not complied with the terms of CCA 1974 s78. The documents that you have supplied, do not comply with your duties to supply a “True Copy” of any agreement you claim to have been signed by me.

In a recent letter from the enforcement department of the OFT, the text below was quoted, explaining what is required.

“The copy of the executed agreement need not be an exact copy but it must be a ‘true copy’ and not some reconstruction of what the original might have been and it must contain the same terms as the original. Where the terms have been varied as provided for within the agreement, the copy of the original agreement must be accompanied by a document setting out the current terms, as varied. Certain details may be omitted from the original agreement eg the signature but the debtor must be in no doubt as to the true nature of his obligations under the loan.

 

Should no original agreement be in existence it is very hard to say that the copy the creditor offers to the debtor is, in fact, a true copy as there would be no original with which to compare it. In our view the onus of proof would be on the creditor to show that the copy is a true one and where none existed he may have difficulty discharging this. Neither should creditors suggest that a consumer has signed a credit agreement where they are unable to provide evidence to support this — to do so is likely to be a misleading action under Regulation 5 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (the CPRs) and would also constitute an unfair or improper business practice.”

 

I also refer you to the information below.

1. A valid credit agreement must contain certain terms within the signature document (s.60(1)(2) CCA 1974). These core terms are the credit limit, repayment terms and the rate of interest (SI 1983/1553 (6 Signing of agreement) which states that the prescribed terms must be within the signature document. (Column 2 schedule 6). s.61(1)(a) states the agreement must contain all the prescribed terms and be signed by both the debtor and on behalf of the creditor.

 

 

2. Further, s.127(3) CCA 1974 makes the account unenforceable if it is not in the proper form and content or improperly executed.

 

In Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd (2007) it was stated “In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties … and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s.61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement”.

 

2. The need for prescribed terms to be contained in the credit agreement is confirmed by the Author of the CCA1974 act, I quote ““As the draftsman of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I would like to thank Dr Richard Lawson for his interesting and well-argued article (30 August 2003) on Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2003] UKHL 40, [2003] 4 All ER 97.

 

Dr Lawson may be interested to know that I included the provision in question (section 127(3)) entirely on my own initiative. It seemed right to me that if the creditor company couldn’t be bothered to ensure that all the prescribed particulars were accurately included in the credit agreement it deserved to find it unenforceable, and that the court should not have power to relieve it from this penalty. Nobody queried this, and it went through Parliament without debate. I’m glad the House of Lords has now vindicated my reasoning and confirmed that nobody’s human rights were infringed.” - 167 Justice of the Peace (2003) 773.”

I am now granting to you a further 7 days to produce a copy of an executable agreement. After that I will consider that the above matter is closed and that you will no longer pursue the alleged debt. If you are insisting that the non enforceable document, that you have supplied, is the only alleged agreement in your possession, then I would suggest that the best course of action would be to immediately set the balance of the above account number to zero.

I look forward to your response.

[twinkle1977]

Hi

Not meaning to sound really dense here, but they've sent me a copy of the agreement and the terms and conditions of 2002

 

Am I just missing the signed statement of the account & current terms and conditions?

 

I just need to be clear in my mind, what i'm disputing.

Should I put the PP issue on ice until I hear back from them?

 

Thanks

[vint1954]

You can do both at once.

 

You are disputing the missing documents. The loan agreement does not have the right to cancel, unless this was signed in branch. They also need to send a statement of the account.

 

You will need to adapt the letter to suit.

[twinkle1977]

I did sign this in branch.

 

Am composing the letter as we speak....

[vint1954]

I did sign this in branch.

 

Am composing the letter as we speak....

Maybe they won't know that.