Argyle V Barclays

[argyle]

Hi All.

Just would like to start saying what a great forum this is and how very supportive to each other everyone here is, will probably need your support in the time ahead.

Hopefully your support in the unknown time ahead will get my nerves through my claim to the end.

 

This is my first post and though i have been following other people's cases closely and reading the faq's this is the first time i actually feel ready to take on Barclays.

I do have a couple of questions before i start and was wondering if anyone could advise me.

 

Firstly i have setup a parachute account and have statements received for the last 6 years, which i have checked over and highlighted all those unfair charges.

 

My first question is do i need to send the DPA letter or can i start straight with the letter for approach for payment seeing the bank has sent my statements, with my calculations enclosed with the letter?

I have decided with the wife that i will not persue the interest charges on our account as i feel this to be adequate fees to cover Barclays expenses and all i require is the payment of those £20,£25 & £30 charges back.

 

Finally this came about after a conversation with a customer advisor from Barclays, after requesting my statements on the phone he advised that i send the letter for refund of charges to the Leicester Branch :o , must admit his remarks knocked me out of step for few seconds until i composed myself again and politely replied that the request was for my records only and that he was wrong to presume why i wanted our statements .So my 2nd question is will the Leicester Branch be ok to send my letter to or am i being setup?

 

Thankyou all in advance of any replies and support.

 

Argyle:)

[Michael Browne]

Barclays Bank PLC

Leicester

LE87 2BB

This is Barclays central processing, so no it wasn't a set up.

 

If you have your statements and know all your charges you can go straight to the prelim letter. V. wise re: claiming charges interest, it's a minefield.

[andtroy]

Hi Argyle

 

Just to say that I have sent all my correspondence to leicester.

 

Glad that you have all your satements as it does save time.When you send your lba keep a hard copy and put it in a seperate file, also send all your letters recorded/special delivery.I have done this with all my letters inc Abbey ( see thread ).

 

Anyway the best of luck and start thinking about that holiday :D

 

Andtroy

[argyle]

Hi Comrades.

Just an update for you all.

Received a letter from Barclays today goes as follows.

 

Dear Argyle.

We are sorry you have had to contact us about the level of service you have received from Barclays.

Thankyou for taking the time and trouble to do so.

We are looking into your concerns and will let you have an answer or update as quickly as possible(Yeah right what does Barclays know about the word quick), but no later than 12th September.(Thats more than the 14 days i gave them so they obviously never read my letter). In the meantime if you wish to contact us to discuss this matter further please call us.....BLAH BLAH BLAH.

 

As you all will see a standard letter as expected C'mon Barclays get with the program Pay up & at least change your responses so we as customers feel different and appreciated.

Well just to let you know looks like they will be getting my LBA before they reply properly to my premliminary letter.

 

Keep up the fight comrades.

Argyle.

[argyle]

Hi Comrades.

Just to bring you all upto date with my situation.

Sent preliminary letter on the 14th August had the usual reply, so i waited 14 days and sent the LBA on the 30th August.

Today (5th Sept) received a reply from Lawrence White offering me 50% of my claim.

 

Must admit i am a little set back at the offer and wondering what my next step should be.

I know i should reject the offer and then submit my claim to moneyclaim when the LBA runs out however "Wifey" is worried that should i reject the claim we could end up with nothing..

Can somebody give me a pep talk and some further information regarding the length of time from submitting a claim with moneyclaim to the point of payday from Barclays, what i mean is could i be waiting for Barclays to pay up this side of Christmas or will it be into 2007???

 

I must admit now am getting to the sticky bits i.e court stuff i am getting a little nervous probably because i feel i will stuff up the claim if and when i come to doing it.

Some real advice from those of you who have gone this far and further would be very helpful, also is it normal for me to feel this apprehensive???

 

Thanks in advance for your help "peeps"

Argyle.

[essjaysea]

Hi Argyle

 

Firstly you have to convince YOH that she is wrong to think that you will end up with nothing. I have not yet come across anyone on this site who has got to the Court stage and got nothing, or in other words lost the case.

 

It will take time, especially with Barclays, as they seem to have a policy of procrastinating right down to the wire, and then settling in full within days of the date set for the hearing. All the banks are panic stricken about appearing in court and defending their actions which they all know to be unlawful.

 

Also if you look at all the different banks that are named on the site, you will see that there are over 14000 different threads running, (and that is just for this site, I know of 2 other sites that are operating in the same way). Now obviously not all these will progress to the Court stage, but the majority probably will, and this must have an effect on the normal operation of the court system. This means that court dates are pushed further and further into the future. So you will probably find that if you are at the initial stages, and file your claim, say mid September, you may not get a court date until end of 2006 or early 2007

 

So my advice would be, (if you are prepared to wait), to reject the 50% offer, or rather accept it, making it clear that you intend to claim the balance, and then issue proceedings, according to your own timetable.

 

Also it is worth reading through some of the other threads, especially ones with a lot of posts, as many of them reproduce the correspondence sent and received, and also the details they entered on the N1 form and Allocation Questionnaires. And there are all the templates and guidance notes in the Bank Templates Library. All this info should help you put your case effectively,

 

Good luck

[argyle]

Thanks for your support Essjaysea.

After reading your post and discussing the issue regarding to rejecting Barclays offer with the MOH, i have decided to go for it.

Therefore Saturday 9th sent the rejection letter off.

Now on Friday(probably unless Barclays settle LOL) i have to start my claim through Mcol can anyone tell me if the following (Particulars of claim - - hard copy version )in the bank letters templates is what i have to copy onto my claim?

Just want to makesure i start properly.

Also am i right in thinking Barclays have to acknowledge my claim in 14 days and if they don't i win by default or do i win by default after 28 days if they don't submit a defence?

I assume the Particulars of claim - - hard copy version is the correct wording to put on my claim and i just need to edit the particulars.

Would be grateful if someone could give me some further reassurance and guidance.

 

Thanks "Peeps"

Argyle.

[Michael Browne]

Particulars of claim - - hard copy version This is a version only suitable for filing with form N1. MCOL is much more limited for space.

 

This should fit:

 

Claimant has account (A/C No) with Defendant from (Date a/c opened)conducted on their standard terms and conditions. Claimant is claiming the return of (£0.00 = amount of charges claimed) taken by Defendant in charges over (X) years. The Defendant's charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. They are also invalid under the Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.Para.8 and sch.2.1.e.

In the event that the charges are not a penalty they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. Defendant has declined justification of charges despite repeated requests. Claimant claims interest under Sec.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% a year from(Date of 1st charge) to (Date of filing claim) of (£0.00 =The interest in the 8% spreadsheet calculation) and also interest at same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of (£0.00p = Amount of charges claimed x 0.00022).

[argyle]

Thankyou very much Michael.

That was the info i was looking for to copy onto my claim,very much appreciated.

 

Final question, now am i right on the 14 day and 28 day issues regarding acknowledgement and defending?

 

Thanks

Argyle.

[Michael Browne]

Barclays have to acknowledge your claim in 14 days and if they don't you win by default. If they acknowledge, they then have 28 days from the original date of service to defend. If they fail to enter a defence within 28 days you win by default.

[argyle]

Hi All.

Just an update.

Received letter (13th Sept) from Barclays regarding my rejection letter to their goodwill gesture of 50%.

They basically have said that they will not increase the offer and they also stress this offer is a full and final settlement seems to be the same reply that other posts have had.

So it appears that Barclays want to do this the hard and more costly way.

So Friday i will start my Moneyclaim as that is when my LBA runs out.

 

Thankyou to you all who have helped me get this far.

Will keep you posted.

 

Argyle.

[kburch]

can you advise what an LBA is.. i have started the ball rolling to claim back charges and had the same standard letter from Barclays as you. Where do i find this letter

Hoping you can help

[argyle]

Hi Kburch.

 

LBA stands for Letter Before Action.

This is the letter you need to send when the 14 days is up for your preliminary letter.

Should find it here with the following link.http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/92-letter-before-action-consumer.html

 

Good Luck.

Argyle.

[kburch]

Thank You

 

I ahve read through the LBA and some doesnt apply and also i dont have an amountthat i have been charged over the last 6 years ( though i am looking toward a 4000 figure) Do i need to request this from Barclays first and can i edit the LBA as they did answer my initial letter .

 

Sorry to be a pain but bit confusing:-?

[argyle]

Hi Kburch.

Sounds like your going the wrong way about things.

If you read the FAQ's there is a set and proven way of starting this.

You will need your statements and a figure for all the charges incurred over the 6 years.

In your premlimary letter you should have requested this total.

After 14 days the next stage would be your LBA.

You might then get a letter offering a sum as full settlement of which i rejected on the 9th, Barclays will then send you a further reply like i received today.

After the 14 days has passed since you sent the LBA you will need to submit a claim.

Some of the parts in the LBA did not apply to me either, just edit the template and adapt it to your circumstances.

You will need your statements with the highlighted charges for possible court date and for your claim when you submit it.

If you read from my first post you should have an idea of what u need to do.

 

Argyle.

[argyle]

Hi All.

 

Lba time is up.

I need to submit my moneyclaim asap.

Can somebody tell me which address i should get Mcol to send the documents to i have been using the Leicester address to date but i did read somewhere that one should use the London address.

Could someone please advise me.

Thankyou.

Argyle.

[Michael Browne]

barclays Plc

1 Churchill Place

London

E14 5hp

[argyle]

Thankyou Michael.

When i get my claim number should i inform anyone from the site?

In the middle of doing this MCOL now would like to get it done tonight.

Thanks

Argyle.

[argyle]

MCOL Submitted.

Fingers crossed now i can relax a little for a bit (i think????)

 

Argyle.

[Michael Browne]

Please PM a Mod with your claim details.

Claim Number:

Bank:

Date:

Deemed Served:

Bank Charges Claimed: £XXX + £XXX 8% interest = Total £XXX

[argyle]

Err!!

 

Hi All.

Is this normal?

My Mcol claim has been issued to Barclays on the 18th and i have just checked my status and it now says claim acknowledged 20th.

I thought Barclays left it late to acknowledge???

Do you actually think they have caught up with the claims?

And finally is an early acknowledgement Good News???

 

thanks for any comments "peeps"

Argyle.

[Stevie T]

This is all normall - it means they've got the claim. In 14 days or so you should expect them to tell you that they plan to defend and then in 28 days (from the date of service - which is 7 (I think or 5?) days after you submitted your claim) they have to defend, which they normally do at the very last minute.

 

They'll do everything they can to bore us into giving up ... but we know we won't!

[argyle]

Hi All.

 

Just an update for you on my progress.

Barclays true to form submitted their defence on the last day possible(28th day).

So should get my AQ shortly.

So any newbie's reading this thread and worried about what happens next watch this space.

Barclays are fast becoming my Ex bank with their lack of customer care.

I have noted that Barclays have yet to step into a court maybe I could be the first to see them there.

 

Argyle.

[khayes]

Have been reading your thread with interest. Hopefully you won't end up in court.

 

I'm just starting out on this long journey!

[argyle]

Hi All.

 

Received my allocation questionaire and Barclays laughable:lol: defence which follows.

 

1. The particulars of the claim do not provide details or particulars of the precise charges alledged to have been unlawful, or the date thereof. To the extent it is alledged that the Claimant incurred bank charges on his account for unauthorised borrowings (where unpaid fees for returned cheques, "Paid refferal fees" or any other such fees), the Defendant puts the claimant to strict proof of each charge and date thereof.

2, The defendents standard terms and conditions give the claimant a fair and transparent view of those terms and the charges applicable for unauthorised borrowings (including where the account is overdrawn without an overdraft limit or where the claimant exceeds his authorised overdraft limit)

3. If and to the extent it is the Claimants case that the failure to make necessary payments and / or failure to remain within authorised overdraft limit, failure to arrange an overdraft limit constituted a breach of terms applying to the account and that the contractual entitlement to debit charges from the claimant account constitutes a liquidated damage cause, the same is denied. The charges constitute payments the claimant agreed to make by reason of the terms and conditions of his/her account and were consideration for the defendant advancing credit to the claimant, which the defendant was under no obligation to advance. The defendant was entitlted to impose such charges and interest when the claimant incurred the overdraft.

4. Accordingly, it is denied that legal principles relating to liquidated damages clauses and penalty charges are relevant or application to the facts set out above. Further or alternativly it is denied that any such charges constitiute unlawful penalty charges or are in breach of the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations 1999 (particularly but without limitation to, paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2, or are in breach of the unfair (contracts) terms act 1977 (or any other provision)

5. Therefore, it is denied that the charges were unlawfully debited from the account

6. If and to the extent the claimant incurred charges on his account, this was caused by the claimant having gone into overdraft without having agreed to with the defendant and authorised facility or to increase the overdraft limit and his failure to make payments to bring the account balance back into its credit limit.

7. It is averred that the said charges and interest are and remain lawful and enforecable and that the defendant was entitled to debit the same. Accordingly, the claimant is not entitled to a declaration by the court as to the enforeceability of the said charges.

8. The defendant denies that it is liable to the claimant for the sums claimed and interest as pleaded by the claimant or at all. In the alternative, which is denied, if the said charges asserted by the claimant to have been applied to the account prior to 18th September 2000 would not be recoverable for the reason of exhaustion of time in bringing contractual claims from the date of the accrual, pursuant to the limitation act 1980.

9. In the alternative, and without prejudice to paragraph 6, if (which denied) the said charges and interest or any part thereof are unlawful or unenforceable as alleged by the claimant or at all, the Defendant has nonetheless suffered loss and damage as a concequence of the claimants breach of contract in allowing the account to go into unauthourised overdraft.Accordingly,in the event the defendant is unable to rely on its express entitlement to enforce the charges as set out in paragraph 2,3 above it will seek to recover to the extent necessary such loss and damage as it actually suffered, which will not necessarily be limited to the value of the said charges, and the defendant seeks to set off such sums against any liability owed hereunder to the claimant.

 

 

It does look like this is a standard defence of Barclays.

I do have some questions for you all.

 

1. when i fill in my AQ should i send an updated schedule of charges to the court?

2. Also i assume that i should send a copy of my charges to Barclays litigation offices?

3. Finally is it too early to send my court bundle or do i await the court date to send my court bundle?

 

Thankyou all in advance.

Argyle.