up against RBS and MBNA - scotland

[George1958]

Its strange they not come to arrangement about sending SAR as they do normally when you send suggested letter i posted up for you,In my case they offered to let me phone them at their compliance dept to go over my security details and then sent my SAR on after that,If they not sent you any response to cca i would personally ignore them now and see what their next move is ! still every situation and person different so next move up to you G It all depends on how much you can take and if you preapred to be bombarded with phoneccalls letters threats and maybe court!In my case i am completly penniless and been told by the debtline online budget checker that i can not afford to pay them anything and should not be offering them anything so really i got no choice as i not got any money to offer a full and final so putting account in dispute only option for our economic survival as i can not afford to pay them much! and be able to keep up wth other imprtant bill or bank likrly to have enforceable ones and otr power to harm us more,Even if i had not disputed their alleged agreemnt \and attempted to make them token £! per month payments it would only have been a matter of time before they dragged me into court and if i not disputed their alleged cca they would have destoyed me and OH as we would have had nothing to fight back.So going down cca route is the only way for me!

 

S99

 

If I could do anything I would, but all I can offer is my support and best wishes, I can't even give you advice. Well I could on workplace regulations!!

 

As I said keep me posted, my thoughts are with you.

 

Regards

 

G

[sunflower99]

S99

 

If I could do anything I would, but all I can offer is my support and best wishes, I can't even give you advice. Well I could on workplace regulations!!

 

As I said keep me posted, my thoughts are with you.

 

Regards

 

G

Hi G

Thanks for moral support! Hopefully one day i will be posting up a note on your thread to say Restons was beaten

[George1958]

Just a quick update, I have downloaded a complaint form from the Financial Ombudsmans Service site, completed it and posted it with copies of all letters sent to MBNA.

 

Just wait and see now I suppose.

 

Regards

 

G

[sunflower99]

Hi G

Good luck ! Ive never been down that road of complaining to FOS.So will be interested to see how you get on.,I hope all goes well though some people say that FOS a bit biased to banks and sit on the fence a bit

[George1958]

Hi G

Good luck ! Ive never been down that road of complaining to FOS.So will be interested to see how you get on.,I hope all goes well though some people say that FOS a bit biased to banks and sit on the fence a bit

 

Thanks S99

Being cynically minded I have no doubt the FOS will be biased towards the creditor, should favouritsm be perceived then I shall escalate matters to the FSA and probably my MP.

Regards

G

[George1958]

Hi G

Good luck ! Ive never been down that road of complaining to FOS.So will be interested to see how you get on.,I hope all goes well though some people say that FOS a bit biased to banks and sit on the fence a bit

 

Updates!!

 

FOS have acknowledged receipt of my complaint, but due to high volume of complaints it will take another week before they get round to it.

 

Being upfront I wrote a letter to MBNA to inform them I had complained to the FOS, I received this attached standard letter this morning along with their complaints procedure.

 

One thing is for sure I'm not waiting 28 days.

 

Regards

 

G

MBNA Complaint Acknowledgement.PDF

[buzby]

28 days is within the bounds of a 'reasonable' period - it is actually 3 'working weeks. If you attenmpt any formal action within this period you'll be classed as being an unreasonable litigant (should it come to that) so it's worth while being patient.

[George1958]

28 days is within the bounds of a 'reasonable' period - it is actually 3 'working weeks. If you attenmpt any formal action within this period you'll be classed as being an unreasonable litigant (should it come to that) so it's worth while being patient.

 

Thanks for that Buzby

I'll take your advice and back off a wee bit.

Regards

G

[sunflower99]

Hi G

I got same letter when i complained to them about their harrasing calls,At least you started ball rolling writing to fos,i expect it will have been well over 28 days before FOS do anything:rolleyes: Ithink people have been waiting six months or more

[George1958]

Hi G

I got same letter when i complained to them about their harrasing calls,At least you started ball rolling writing to fos,i expect it will have been well over 28 days before FOS do anything:rolleyes: Ithink people have been waiting six months or more

 

S99

My only real problem is the legalities of what "in dispute" really means. I hope I am wrong but from what I gather the creditor can cobble together a credit agreement to comply with your CCA request. I think then the account is no longer in dispute.

However, I also gather that a cobbled together CCA can be disputed as it is not a true copy of a properly executed credit agreement.

I don't want to be ranting at MBNA for an account being in dispute, when it's the CCA that's in dispute, as MBNA have complied with the amended Consumer Credit Act.

So I'll let the FOS do the ranting for me, hopefully anyway!!

 

MBNA will get their 28 days to investigate and get back to me.

 

Regards

G

[sunflower99]

Hi G

Though unfortunatly sometimes the crediter can get away with a cobbled together agreement in response to a s78 request,even if it complies it still does not mean that it is enforceable in court,I saw quite a useful post about this in another thread writted by one of the site managers steve

[George1958]

S99

It all seems a bit underhand, but I suppose it is in their best interests to cobble together something hoping that the debtor might take fright and cave in, or maybe even find a friendly judge/court somewhere thereby setting a counter precedent.

However, I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it, as I have asked for a true copy of the properly executed agreement, and would expect the original to be produced in court as evidence should things go that far.

Anyway how is your fight proceding, you managed to slap down MBNA yet?

Regards

G

[sunflower99]

Hi G

I had my SJ today!

sucess! It looks like i may not have to,live in a cardboard box just yet:)

If you interested here is link to thread!http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/199523-restons-mbna-issued-court-21.html

[George1958]

Oi S99

Well Done, I puit a wee posting on your "Round One" thread.

Regards

G

 

Good afetrnoon All

I finally received documents from MBNA which in their opinion complies with s78 of the Consumer Credit Act.

I have grave doubts they have sent me what I asked for, which was a true copy of a properly executed credit agreement.

 

The whole package consists of ( all annotations have been applied by me)

1) A header letter (annotated Header)

2) Aplication Form (annotated pages 1 and 2)

3) Credit Card Agreement (annotated pages 3 to 6 inc)

4) Latest Statement (annotated pages 7 to 9 inc)

5) FAQ (annotated pages 10 and 11)

 

I would be extremely grateful I could have my own opinion reinforced that they have not included a true copy of a properly executed credit agreement.

I am of the opinion that they have sent what I asked them not to send which was an amalgum of application form, T & C, and statements.

 

Kind Regards

 

G

 

PS I have removed the amounts in my statement as that could allow snoopers to identify me and predict my next steps.

CCA from MBNA - Edited.PDF

[IdaInFife]

if your pages 1 and 2 were front and back then it would be....but

 

note the reference numbers on the bottom right hand side (normally they delete these!) are completely different which would suggest that these two pages are not linked and they are trying to make you think they are!

 

idax

[George1958]

 

Thanks for looking Ida

As usual your input is rock solid.

I had noticed the different reference numbers on my page 1 and 2, but also as well I had noticed on page 3 that they have my current address, not the address they have on the application form. I would have thought for it to be true copy of the original properly executed credit agreement that even the addresses would have to be the same, especially as it was signed away back in 1999.

 

So am I correct in assuming that they have reconstructed a CCA in the hope that I see it as a true copy of the original properly executed credit agreement.

Should I now send a letter claiming that the CCA they have provided is not a true copy of the original?

Regards

G

[IdaInFife]

Dear Sirs,

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

This account is in Dispute .

On xx/xx/2007 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form along with a page of unrelated terms and conditions which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

I trust this out lines the situation

 

Ida x

[George1958]

Ida

 

Thanks very much for the letter template, but since MBNA have passed my details to other parties such as credit reference agencies, I feel very much tempted to state that my Human Rights have been violated as I am now unable to get credit. Especially as the reconstructed CCA is not a true copy of the original properly executed credit agreement.

 

What do you think?

 

Regards

 

G

[IdaInFife]

you can add the s10 notice

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/586-legal-notice-issued-under-section-10-of-the-data-protection-act-1980

 

ida x

[George1958]

 

You really are a treasure trove, and in Fife as well. I never ever thought I would use treasure and Fife in the same sentence.

 

Thankyou very much Ida

 

Regards

 

George

 

Update

 

Due to the CCA considered not to be a true copy of the properly executed credit agreement, I am firing off a letter with the following text tomorrow morning.

Many thanks to Ida for supplying the letter template.

 

 

To whom it may concern

 

This account is in legal dispute.

.

On DD MM 2009 I wrote requesting that MBNA supply me a true copy of the properly executed credit agreement for this account.

 

In response to this request I was supplied an amalgam of documents purporting to be the executed agreement. This amalgam of documents consisted of an application form along with a page of unrelated terms and conditions which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The documents purporting to be the executed agreement do not contain all the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required.

 

Since this document does not contain all the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you pursue me for this alleged debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states:

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I now require you to produce a compliant copy of my original properly executed credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case.

 

Your failure to comply with my request to produce a copy of my original properly executed credit agreement also violates my Human Rights.

 

Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a properly executed credit agreement, therefore until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998, any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

 

As well as contravening The Data Protection Act you have further violated my Human Rights by forwarding my details to other parties, such as credit reference agencies.

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for the alleged debt to be written off.

 

I suggest you give this serious consideration as I am preparing a claim for all quantifiable damages due to breaches of statutory legislation and violation of my Human Rights.

 

You have 14 days to provide a written resolution to my complaint.

 

Should you not respond in writing within 14 days, then you leave me no option but to start legal proceedings.

 

Regards

[RHOOD]

Told u it was fun George - you go get em

 

look towards CREDIT DAMAGE & REPUTATION

 

Banks 'should pay for credit damage'

 

cant find the law that applies to REPUTATION perhaps somebody else will help.

[George1958]

Surprise Surprise

 

My SAR arrived this morning, and had a quick look still no properly executed credit agreement.

 

What staggers me though, is the interest I've paid for this credit card.

 

Clearly it was a case of me burying my head in the sand at the time.

 

One lives and learns, and gets to fight another day.

 

G

[RHOOD]

 

remember to look out for UNLAWFUL CHARGES and claim back full amount with interest:D

[sunflower99]

Hi G

LIke Idainfife!says looks like MBNA are up to their usual tricks sending pages together and implying that the application form has a reverse of prescribed terms without actually stating it,,Also i find that second paper with prescribed terms not very easy to read or legible so you can complain about legibility as well,If you manage to read that very tiny print of prescribed terms you may find that it refers to terms not presnt in any of the papers they have enclosed Great letter by the way!

[RHOOD]

George, did you see DINKJAMES post this morning at 08:50 about MBNA

 

COURT LETS WOMAN OFF WITH £8,000 LOAN

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/223151-all-us-fighting-mbna.html

 

enjoy and don't laugh to much :D:D