up against RBS and MBNA - scotland

[sunflower99]

Hi G!

I noticed in earlier post you wanted a link to a sar request letter this one CiT B helped me with was the one i recently sent MBNA

[sunflower99]

Hi G

Just getting to grips with securitisation myself !i think it is our debt that is securitised!This forum certainly openend my eyest to these banks!

[George1958]

Thanks S99

 

I'll edit this and make use of it.

 

To BRW

 

According to the term "Securitisation" I could be a dependable bebt, boy have they got that wrong. I am assuming of course they have victimised me and many thousands of others by raising money on my debt, just so that they could continue to pay their debt and make repayments, allegedly.

 

I'll keep this up my sleeve for the time being and ask the relevant question when I need to about securitisation.

 

Who said the feudal system was past? They just forgot to tell me to doff my hat in their presence. The gits!!

 

Regards

 

G

[sunflower99]

Hi BRW

Thanks for reply! so may be a good idea to ask them if my MBNA account been securitised to worry them!

 

Hi G

Glad to have been of help ! Thiis will be my second SAR i requested of MBNA as i want them to include alll my latest data including the period i got passed to Restons,I did have to phone their complaince dept first time hence that is covered in above Sar request letter! It was not to bad and the staff were very pleasant when i phoned up to confirm my idendity for SAR all i was asked was date of birth and mother maiden name! i dont have a driving licence or a passport anyway and would be very reluctant to send them in these times even if i had!

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello G!

 

It's your Debt that MBNA Securitises.

 

In effect, they sell it. But the issue is not yet a magic bullet, but has significant potential to rat up what MBNA are doing now we are starting to uncover what has really been going on behind the scenes.

 

There are many knock-on issues, many yet to be fully explored. The fact that they have almost certainly increased many peoples' interest rates for Securitsation reasons as opposed to anything the Consumer has done wrong, could land them in hot water one day.

 

But your key first steps are to start with the basics, and use all of the tried and tested steps first.

 

I'd advise taking stock of things first, such as making sure you have a good handle on the numbers, what is owed where, how much is going out, how much is coming in.

 

If you can, use a Spreadsheet or similar to start getting your timelines organised, so you can see ahead and see where you may be going with this.

 

Don't knee jerk into action, better to gather the strategy for the next couple of weeks, and when ready, hit them hard and then stick to your plan.

 

Forgetting the MBNA and RBS for a second, you must first establish your survival strategy. Key bills, key income.

 

Then get another bank account on Monday. Do it ASAP, because when the poop hits the fan, as it will, you will have fewer opportunities open to you.

 

If you are a Sole Trader or Partnership, then you can operate with just a Personal bank Account. No need for a Business Account unless you also need things like Credit Card Machines etc...even then, you can use, say, PayPal if needed.

 

If you are a Limited Company, then you must have a Business bank Account, so get a new one on Monday, or at least set the wheels in motion on Monday.

 

Find a bank that is far away from RBS in terms of the likelihood of a merger. Look at who works with who, and bank with one at the other end of that scale.

 

Make sure you can pay the key bills: Council Tax, Electricity, Food and Fuel and anything key to the Business (ADSL Line, Car/Van insurance, etc).

 

Then start dumping absolutely everything else. If it's a luxury, dump it. If you can get by without it, dump it.

 

Then start building cash when ever you can.

 

While doing all the above, read on CAG, and get ready to send a s78(1) Request to MBNA the fee is £1 and they have 12 Working Days to respond.

 

Then send a SAR to both MBNA and RBS. The fees there are £10 each, and they have 40 Calandar Days to send you the bumf.

 

Always use Postal Orders and don't sign any letters. Or, if you must, use a slightly different Signature that you will recognise if you see it again.

 

Get a cheap Scanner if you can, as you should scan any signatures and documents you send them, so you have copies.

 

Always send key letters to them via Special Delivery, because you need to have signed proof of delivery. Recorded Delivery at worst, but that is less reliable in terms of getting to see proof of Delivery.

 

Don't worry about rushing this, do take your time, and plan on sending things off when you are 100% ready. The key is to get ready for the storm before you start, and protect yourself.

 

It may be wise to also get a Credit Report from each of the Credit Reference Agencies (CRA), they cost £2 each, and they have 7 days. Don't bother with the on-line rubbish, just go for the Statutory Paper Report. They all have to offer that, and it is very comprehensive.

 

The key is to establish where you are before you start, so that you have evidence of any nasty stuff MBNA or RBS try from this point onwards.

 

But you must protect the key things first and think survival strategy. This recession is going to get a lot worse before it ever gets better, so be aware things will get harder, not easier.

 

If I'm not around, there are many others who can help you.

 

Finally, from now on KEEP ALL ENVELOPES of any letters they send, and clip them to the back of the letters as they arrive. These can be important, because the Date of Service of some key things depends on when they posted them to you, and how. ENVELOPES can be significantly more important than they appear!

 

Best of luck with it.

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

Hello G!

 

One other issue...Telephone Harassment!

 

Once you kick off with MBNA, and also probably RBS, you will be bombarded with Calls.

 

Never call them, ever, and keep it all in writing from now on.

 

Plan ahead for this too if you can, get an Answering Machine, and consider changing your Home and Mobile Numbers if at all possible. Their Calls will affect your Business and Home life, so try to find a way around that now if you can.

 

Never let them know your new numbers.

 

If you call them, and don't hide your number, then it gets added to their Database. So, never call them from a friend's or family number, because they will call that number back once it is on their system.

 

OK, get reading, and I think you will see the way ahead soon enough.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[George1958]

Thanks for the input BRW

 

I have already started an event calender to attempt to put things into a chromological order as they have happened and as I plan them to happen.

 

Must admit didnt think about keeping the envelopes, although I have opened new bank accounts with Alliance & Leicester as I was thinking about RBS freezing accounts etc, so unless RBS are part of Santander then I should be OK.

 

Once these phone calls start, then the accusautions of harrassment and bullying will be set in writing and sent to them, and at a later date to the statutory authorities.

 

First stop tomoorow is the post office for a couple of £1.00 postal orders, I have gleaned from various threads that a CCA is not applicable to overdrafts, but the way I see it, it keeps the path regular and it will rattle RBS's cage.

 

Many Thanks BRW and S99

 

Maybe one day I'll get to buy you both a pint.

 

Regards

 

G

 

PS I'll probably be off-line for the next couple of days due to work commitments, but I'll look in whenever I can, and certainly when I get back.

 

I am intending sending a letter with the following text and layout to MBNA tomorrow.

 

Can someone please take a look at the text/layout and confirm I am sending the correct letter?

 

I shall check the forum before letting the letter drop into the postbox.

 

Many Thanks

 

G

 

Letter begins here

 

To whom it may concern

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, then the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Having got back from working away yesterday I posted a letted within thread that I had intended to send to MBNA.

 

After perusal of some other threads regarding MBNA, I have come to the conclusion that MBNA are excellent at fobbing people off.

 

Therefore, I have amended the letter to include a couple of notes. Could someone please cast their eye over the content of the letter and offer some "send/not send" advice. The letter content is posted below.

 

Finally, has anyone ever got reound these "stonewalling" processes employed by MBNA?

 

Regards

G

 

Letter begins.

 

To whom it may concern

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy (refer to Notes below) of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, then the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

XXXXXX XXXXXX

 

 

 

Notes:

(1) True copy means a copy of a properly executed credit agreement attributed to the above account compliant with the provisions of The Consumer Credit Act. It does not mean an amalgam of Terms and Conditions and Statements of Account.

 

(2) The right is reserved for the sent copy of the credit agreement attributed to the above account to be compared to the original document archived by MBNA or any other associated company. This comparison will be conducted by a person appointed by the author of this request.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello G!

 

From what you said originally, I think it sounds like MBNA still own the debt, so it may not be necessary to mention the s175 and s189 issues. However, no harm leaving them in if you even suspect that MBNA have sold off the alleged Debt.

 

Stressing properly executed is important, because many bankers like to drop the properly part. Don't let them, and make it clear that you want to see hard evidence of a properly executed Regulated Credit Card Agreement.

 

The main thing is to get the s78(1) Request off ASAP (s77 if it is a loan, s78 if a Credit Card, but stating both s77/s78 won't do any harm if you are ever unsure).

 

Once that has been delivered, then the battle is underway. They will then change tactics with you. Expect more calls, and the start of a deluge of silly letters, postcards, Texts to your Mobile and some emails.

 

I'd hit them with a SAR too almost straight away, just to get another look at what they have and what they have been up to. Plan on sending them a 2nd SAR later to get an update on their activities, but hold off on the 2nd one until they have been busy doing silly things.

 

Don't forget to keep all Envelopes that anyone sends you anything in, as they may well prove very useful later on.

 

If you have all of your Statements, start punching in the numbers into either a Spreadsheet, or something like Microsoft Money. The main issue is to see what you have spent, and what you have repaid, and then see what they have charged you over the years. You need to categorise their charges into a few small groups, such as Interest, any valid Account Charges, and also Unlawful Charges such as Over-Limit or Late Fees. The latter you need to plan on claiming back, but not just yet.

 

Those charges may well rat up any Default Notice default sum, so I would hold them back for later, and either Claim them when ready, or use them as a Counter-Claim if they try Court Action...or any DCA they sell the Debt to tries Court Action.

 

I would not worry too much about the actual content of the s78(1) Request letter, main thing is to get it off, and nail down the first step.

 

The thing to bear in mind is you want all of your letters, and the timing of all your letters to present a clear strategy and a pattern of clinical and decent behaviour to a Judge. That's mainly what you are doing. So always give MBNA every opportunity to drop themselves in it by the way they conduct themselves in comparison with how you conduct yourself.

 

Finally, it could be worth 3x £2 to get copes of your Statutory Credit Reports from the three CRAs. The reason this is key, is it should pin down where your Financial Reputation sits before this all kicks off. Then you have a fixed starting point that you can compare similar Reports you can obtain down the line. This may show any malicious damage they do to your financial standing. It's well worth the cost for that reason, because once this starts, you will lose the opportunity to see how things looked before they started trashing your reputation.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[sunflower99]

I am afraid you will need to be prepared for a lot of stonewalling from MBNA and they will try every trick in the book to intinmidate you and pressurise you into payng up whatever they send you!i notice on threads that MBNA disputes go on for ages and they will normally insist they hold an enforceable agreement what ever they send you!,However a lot caggers who do get taken to court by the solicers Restons and optima have manged to defeat them and if that happens i should imagine MBNA will likely be dettered from takeing more legal action again though they will probably play pass the parcel with your account to other pondfeeder DCAs in a desperate attempt to get some peanuts back!! and you will possibly have up to about six years of dispute writing and asserting your rights to other pond feeders till it gets staue barred ! Though if as you say you takeing MBNA to court and manage to get their cca declared unenforcrable by a DJ that might speed things up a bit! Some people manage to discuss a greatly reduced final settlement with them but anyone doing that will have to maks sure it is a full and final settlement as sometines MBNA will lull people into a sense of security thinking dispute over when they come to an arrangement only to find that it has not been recorded as a full and final setllement and MBNA sell remainder of debt to other pond feeder who chase person for rest of debt

Edited July 1, 2009 by sunflower99

[George1958]

Hi BRW and S99

 

Thankyou both very much for your kind replies this morning.

 

It's difficult for me to convey my thanks until I get back from my daily grind. So once again a very belated and big thankyou.

 

My letter to MBNA goes tomorrow, I already have bought and headed my lever arch file, maybe one file won't be enough for all the stonewalling tactics employed by MBNA.

 

I'm not trying to avoid my debt, and do want to repay the money I have spent, however I refuse to pay well over the odds. Therefore I am prepared to push this all the way.

 

Although going to court is not a new experience for me, no I dont have a sinister past, I have acted as "expert witness" on a couple of cases. But it is a first for me as a claimant or a defendant.

 

Hopefully at some stage I will be able to pass on my experiences and tips to others using this forum.

 

Keep watching, I have no doubt I'll be shouting for help at some point in the near future.

 

Regards

 

G

 

Now I'm starting to get ahead of myself, however I'm drawing up my mission brief ready to deploy my resources at any given time, and really need to ask a relevant question.

 

Is it better for me lodge my papers with an English court?

 

I stay within reasonable driving distance of England, and as I have no doubt that at some point in time I will be pointing my short stubby fingers at MBNA in a court somewhere.

 

Thanks in anticipation.

 

Regards

 

G

[sunflower99]

Hi G

Glad to have been of help!i hope someone will be along to be able to answer your above question soon!

[George1958]

Before I head off to the daily grind, I have some questions that I hope can be answered or opinions offered.

 

If my alledged debt has been securitized, then who has ownership of this alledged debt?

 

Should the alledged debt be securitized, then can I conclude that there is no debt to MBNA as they have effectively sold the alledged debt to another body?

 

Therefore, if there is no alledged debt to MBNA, then MBNA have effectively been acting as an intermediary and not a bank. This means they have been providing a service. As service providers should they not be subjecting these transactions to VAT at their own expense?

 

Finally, who have I paid all this money to in minimum payments over the years?

 

Regards

 

G

[sunflower99]

good question and point G!

[George1958]

Well. I kicked the whole process off today.

 

My request for a properly executed regulated credit agreement was sent today, recorded delivery.

 

The hardest part was letting go of the letter into the postbox. Now that I've done it though I feel pretty damn good.

 

Now getting myself "psyched up" for the slog ahead.

 

Will let you all know how I get on by updating the thread as events occur.

 

However, if anyone has any advices or experience they want to pass on then please "post" at any time.

 

Regards

 

G

[buzby]

The bulk of financial transactions are VAT exempt (Like bank charges) so whilst I have nothing but contempt for MBNA which claims to be a bank but has no branches, and uses the clearing services of RBS - their VAT policies seem to be sound.

[sunflower99]

Good luck G! At least the beggers will know you not going to give them an easy time!

[George1958]

Good afternoon Buzby

 

Thanks for the reply re VAT.

 

I can follow MBNA being VAT exempt if they collected the money for themselves, however if my alledged debt has been securitized then MBNA are acting as brokers/intermediaries by providing a service to another unconnected company for a fee, in this case a securitized date.

 

I can accept the fact that MBNA are indeed VAT exempt, but they are stretching this exemption to the very limit and I suspect it is something that the VAT people have not "cottoned on" yet.

 

Insurance brokers/intermediaries are under a "VAT spotlight" at this point in time by stretching VAT exemption to the limit, I'm not talking about brokers being paid commisions by insurance companies to sell their products, but where the client of the broker is paying the broker a fee. At present there is no VAT paid or collected on that fee by anyone.

 

MBNA may be VAT exempt, but in my opinion they are taking liberties with that exemption. I have no doubt their VAT policies seem to be sound, but again in my opinion they are not robust enough to withstand scrutiny or questioning by interested parties.

 

I have no doubt that even if the VAT people had a wee look at what was going on then that would cause a flurry of excitement, in this case panic, in the financial institutions who buy and sell debt.

 

At the end of the day why should they be different from any other businesses who by and sell products?

 

Regards

 

G

 

Good afternoon S99

 

Thanks for the encouragemnt

 

I don't know if I'm strong enough to give them a hard time, but I will certainly make things difficult for them.

 

Regards

 

G

 

Good evening all

 

I think I'm having withdrawals about not being on this site for a couple days, thats just due to pressures of work though.

 

Anyway, just a quick update on my actions.

 

I have sent my CCA request (I specifically asked for a true copy of the properly executed regulated credit agreement) off to MNBA, quickly followed by a SAR. The SAR included a statement requiring MBNA to confirm that they have not securitized my alleged debt.

 

Both these request were sent by recorded delivery, I still have to check the website to find out when actual delivery was.

 

My next steps are to get hold of my credit rating reports for a "before and after" comparison, and also add up all charges which in my opinion are unfair.

 

MBNA will get every chance to comply with my legal requests, but the account/alleged debt will move very quickly into dispute after the statutory time-frames have expired.

 

So it's now just a waiting game, however I am using the time to plan my next "assault" on MBNA.

 

I may be a layman, but I've been round the block a few times and I learn very quickly, which ain't bad for an old geezer. I just dont want MBNA to think they're dealing with an idiot.

 

So if anyone has any other advice and/or help then I would be very much obliged.

 

Regards

 

G

 

PS Thanks to LTP she has really helped me out with her endless encouragement

[sunflower99]

Hi G

Good on you! Sounds like you getting ready for battle! Have you seen retap-falco link about an article in PDF about MBNA and securitisation?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2275027.html

[George1958]

Evening S99

 

Found the pdf to be hard work, the jargon is not for the layman (me), however the "discrete requirement" can lead to all sorts of questions being asked.

 

Thanks for the link.

 

G

[sunflower99]

Hi G

Yes it iwas quite a technical report and i prefer Bankeryhmeswith posts about it as he has a great talent of expressing things into more easier to understand terms about these issues that us laypeople can understand a lot easier !

[George1958]

Evening All

 

Been out of the picture for a wee while as I've been working away from home in the far north of a very wet and windswept Scotland.

 

Just to quickly update any intersted party, MBNA have 2 days left to comply and send me a properly executed regulated credit agreement.

 

The dispute letter is almost ready to go, recorded of course, then I would imagine the fun and games will start.

 

Why do MBNA make it difficult for themselves, all I'm asking for is something I'm entitled to?

 

Kind Regards

 

G

[buzby]

Why do MBNA make it difficult for themselves, all I'm asking for is something I'm entitled to?

 

Because they don't make much money out of complying?

[George1958]

Dear All

 

A bit of advice is needed quite quickly.

 

I have a "development" to report, but all I see is a stalling tactic and perhaps even smell a rat.

 

I have attached a letter from MBNA, which in my opinion makes no legal nor common sense.

 

They have also returned my 10.00 GBP postal order.

 

It seems they require extra ID to send the information to my address, even although they admit in the letter that they send statements to my address.

 

It is my intention to write a letter to MBNA, hereinafter referred to as the "MOB", to thank them for the their letter dated dd/mm/yyy, and that I do not need to send additional ID for them to comply with the DPA.

 

My letter will also state that my original SAR is sound and robust and that the timescale for compliance will be calcualted from my original SAR.

 

I will also insert into the letter I write that I will be willing to travel to Chester or a local site to pick up the information that should be provided in the SAR.

 

Kind Regards

 

G

Letter from MBNA.PDF

[sunflower99]

Hi G

MBNA stalled me a bit over SAR by saying they needed a passport or birth certicifae in the end i got the compromise of going over security checks over phone at their complaince dept to confirm i wanted them to send m SAR documents to my address!and i did eventualy get my SAR sent

 

i will find the letter i wrote to them in reply when they stalled me over my SAR request!

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

RE Account--------

Thank you for your letter dated 7th Jan 2009 in connection with my subject Access Request.

 

Your letter requests "For security reasons we require you to provide a form of positive identification (an example of acceptable identification would be a copy of a driving licence or passport which includes your signature), before you comply.

 

To the present date you have easily sent statements and correspondence containing my sensitive and private statements and personal financial information to my address. I am asking myself now why all the concern regarding security regarding my information, and why you are doubting that I am not the right person? I request the reasoning behind the length of time for you suddenly to be worried about this.

 

I am confident an organisation the size of MBNA are aware, disclosing data without adequate checks of identity is contrary to the 7th principal of data protection, listed in schedule 1 of the Data protection Act 1998:

 

7. Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or damage to, personal data.

 

I would like to advise that clarification with Government bodies assured me that this is purely MBNA's own internal proceedures, and not really required.

 

I am concerned that I do not hold either a passport or drivers licence, and even if I did, in today's society about taking care of our personal information, I am not happy in sending in the post anyway.

 

I am sure that an alternative compromise can be sought, either you accept I am who I am, or you can offer me alternatives that I will find acceptable. If this cannot be resolved I will contact the Information Commissioners Office.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing within the next 7 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

MBNA responded to this by writing back and saying i could phone their compliance dept to confirm my identity for SAR request,All i was asked for was my date of birth account number and mothers maiden name pass word.It was very quick and the lady i spoke to were pleasant and polite I supppose she was to nice to be recruited to DCA threatogram dept!

[George1958]

Thanks S99

 

I'll use some of your text in my letter to the MOB.

 

What really didn't help me at all, was they were looking for something with my signature on it.

 

Regards

 

G

[buzby]

Why hadn't you signed your letter (that requested the SAR)?