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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Letter from Railway Prosecutions Unit - what to do?


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  • 3 weeks later...

 

Off the record comments? A bit too Bodie and Doyle for my taste, but most of the evidence relating to 'fare dodging' comes from the 'ticket history' and what the staff saw, rather than what you admit.

 

What is ticket history?

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What is ticket history?

 

Hello and welcome to CAG. I believe it's to do with Oyster cards, electronic season tickets etc, shows what journeys have been made on it. I forget over how long, but weeks or months. Do you have a reason for asking and can we help?

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Tickets tell a story, they have coded on them the machine that issued them, and may have a time/date last used, depending on what gates they have been used in.

 

There is, with some passengers, a record of season tickets held. Oysters show the last 8 'uses' made, and a lot more can be discovered from the Oyster records available to Tfl staff.

 

Many offenders have bought 'wrong' tickets previously, and clerks may have made notes of their suspicions. I have read cases where the clerk felt that something was amiss, made notes, and passed them to an Inspector. I am told that many fiddlers will use self service machines to avoid detection.

 

Of course, some clerks will tell the Inspectors that people use the machines every day, even when ther is no queue.

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The end result is that even if the Inspector has made mistaks, either with cautions or 'PACE' codes of practice, the real evidence from the ticket, the CCTV and so on will still yeild a conviction. Clever solicitors can play with 'admissions', real evidence is a tougher nut to crack.

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  • 4 weeks later...
It has been a while since I have seen a real 'Great Eastern' inspector, but then I only use their line between Upminster and Romford.

 

I understand that they also use a contract revenue protection team, is it 'Meteor'?

 

I know that some of them wear head cams, which I guess also record voice.

 

Meteor= 'run-off-the-mill' minimum wage Agency, man barriers, PFN's, tickets, No MG11's / prosecution work.

The lads with head-cams were from Carlisle Security, enforce bye-laws (mainly 'feet-in-seats', anti-social behaviour etc)

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Funnily enough, I went through Romford today, the 'Meteor' folk were all around, near the barriers, on the stairs. They were too busy talking to each other to look closely at my ticket, not that there was anything wrong with it. They failed to spot the dodgy looking chap with his hood up who slid through behind his mate. He went to the same place in Main Road that I did.

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  • 3 months later...

same problem with me...they didnt ask me to pay th fine and now i hav to appear in magistrate court...i choose to plead guilty and not to apper in the court...i m happy to pay the money and i amm all confused...if they hv ask me to pay the fine i would hv but al these court thing make me really upset...someone help...wot will happen after the court date? i am no going on dat day ...how i will pay the fine?

 

 

I too was stopped for being in first class with only standard class ticket - I wrote off explaining the reason I was in there and didnt hear anything further even though I was willing to pay a fine. Next thing I have a summons to go to court - what can I do?
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same problem with me...they didnt ask me to pay th fine and now i hav to appear in magistrate court...i choose to plead guilty and not to apper in the court...i m happy to pay the money and i amm all confused...if they hv ask me to pay the fine i would hv but al these court thing make me really upset...someone help...wot will happen after the court date? i am no going on dat day ...how i will pay the fine?

 

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Is your problem with the same rail company please? It may not make any difference, but it's possible the guys will advise you to start a thread of your own. I expect they will be along later when they can.

 

[edit] it might also help if you tell us a bit more about what happened on the day you had the wrong ticket, if that's what happened.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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i recieve letter from london eastern railway...

i was travelling btw harlow town and tottenham hale and accidently sit in the firsclass while having standard ticket. the inspector questioned me and made a report he didnt ask for penalty fare ...and then i recieve a letter from prosecution unit..i replied that i apologize and i am happy to pay the fare...but after some days i recieve letter from court magistrate...i select to plead guilty and not to appear in the court and send it to the clerk as the letter said...hearing is on 6th july 2011....i have not heard back from them any sort of confirmation....wot shud i do...is there any contact no or should i wait...???

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  • 2 months later...

HELP!!! re London Easter Railway

 

I was travelling from Billericay to Stratford with a standard class ticket & the train came in as only 4 carriages instead of 8. As I was waiting at the end of the platform, i ran back to the front car & squeezed my way on + entered 1st class - it was that or wait for the next train & i was already late for work. I was stopped at the next station & cautioned. a genuine error on my part and a first offence- i had sufficient funds on me to pay the additional fare but wasnt given the opportunity to pay. another passenger was next to me & in the same situation - we swapped numbers just in case - i spoke with him today & after he returned their letter, he was given the option of paying the fare diffference & an admin fee. i havent been taht lucky - i guess its due to my delay in sendign the form back to them.

 

I received a form asking me to state my side from the prosecutions unit, which I did complete but stupidly didn't send straight back - I sent it back nearly 3 weeks ago, but in the meantime have received a court summons.

 

If i go to court, I will be found guilty, lose my job + be unemployable as I work in the financial services industry. My court date is set for 30th Sept 2011 - is there anythign I can do to grovel to them & settle their costs out of court? I need to avoid going to court at all costs>>

 

Any advice greatly appreciated - please help me so I can stop worrying!

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HELP!!! re London Easter Railway

 

I was travelling from Billericay to Stratford with a standard class ticket & the train came in as only 4 carriages instead of 8. As I was waiting at the end of the platform, i ran back to the front car & squeezed my way on + entered 1st class - it was that or wait for the next train & i was already late for work. I was stopped at the next station & cautioned. a genuine error on my part and a first offence- i had sufficient funds on me to pay the additional fare but wasnt given the opportunity to pay. another passenger was next to me & in the same situation - we swapped numbers just in case - i spoke with him today & after he returned their letter, he was given the option of paying the fare diffference & an admin fee. i havent been taht lucky - i guess its due to my delay in sendign the form back to them.

 

I received a form asking me to state my side from the prosecutions unit, which I did complete but stupidly didn't send straight back - I sent it back nearly 3 weeks ago, but in the meantime have received a court summons.

 

If i go to court, I will be found guilty, lose my job + be unemployable as I work in the financial services industry. My court date is set for 30th Sept 2011 - is there anythign I can do to grovel to them & settle their costs out of court? I need to avoid going to court at all costs>>

 

Any advice greatly appreciated - please help me so I can stop worrying!

There's an Easter railway now? :)

 

I suggest you write to the Prosecutions department for the TOC concerned and explain the effect this could potentially have on your career etc. State how sorry you are and that it will never happen again. Also state how it was your first offence and offer to pay all reasonable admin costs in order to stay out of court. Just because you've received a summons through the post doesn't mean that it's Game Over, and it can still be settled administratively right up until the court date. They don't have to accept, but it wont hurt to try.

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HELP!!! re London Easter Railway

 

I was travelling from Billericay to Stratford with a standard class ticket & the train came in as only 4 carriages instead of 8. As I was waiting at the end of the platform, i ran back to the front car & squeezed my way on + entered 1st class - it was that or wait for the next train & i was already late for work. I was stopped at the next station & cautioned. a genuine error on my part and a first offence- i had sufficient funds on me to pay the additional fare but wasnt given the opportunity to pay. another passenger was next to me & in the same situation - we swapped numbers just in case - i spoke with him today & after he returned their letter, he was given the option of paying the fare diffference & an admin fee. i havent been taht lucky - i guess its due to my delay in sendign the form back to them.

 

I received a form asking me to state my side from the prosecutions unit, which I did complete but stupidly didn't send straight back - I sent it back nearly 3 weeks ago, but in the meantime have received a court summons.

 

If i go to court, I will be found guilty, lose my job + be unemployable as I work in the financial services industry. My court date is set for 30th Sept 2011 - is there anythign I can do to grovel to them & settle their costs out of court? I need to avoid going to court at all costs>>

 

Any advice greatly appreciated - please help me so I can stop worrying!

 

After how many days, did you return your form?

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If you did not respond within the time advised on the letter, it is very likely that they will have taken the view that you may have intended to avoid the liability and that will be why you have received a summons.

 

You could write with a full apology, offer to pay the full fare and their reasonably incurred administration costs and ask if the company will accept this as a means of disposing of the case without prosecution. Adding an apology to the company & staff concerned and an undertaking not to repeat the offence will improve the chances of success.

 

There is no guarantee that this will work, the TOC do not have to accept your offer, but will give it serious consideration.

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All, thanks for the great advice. I wrote a very grovelling letter, explaining about losing my job, career etc, and then managed to call them. After a bit of back & forth which involved me faxing my letter to them, I spoke to a Prosecutor. He could not have been more helpful. He explained that it was my delay in sending the form back (almost 2 months, i'm ashamed to say.) that has generted the court summons. He said they don't set out to ruin people's lives or careers, and court is a last option. He had reviewed my case & letter, and was happy for me to pay their full costs (£13.60 fare differential +£100.00 court costs) to settle out of court.

He explained that the summons will still be called at court, but would be marked as 'withdrawn' - so no ciriminal record, the court don't get involved. the railway DO keep all your details, so next time, they do send you straight to court.

The message to all you genuine 'victims' is, speak to them - they are reasonable people, explain why you were in the wrong, apologise + say it was a one-off, offer to pay the full costs and the problem goes away!

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Tony was a very nice feller indeed ! But how the hell did you know I spoke to him amongst all the prosecutors?! And by the end of the morning, I felt like I knew Lorraine better than my missus!

 

I'm a but sad & think Weller can do no wrong, but have to agree The Jam were miles better than TSC, as is Weller solo!

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Hello Weller Fan, I'm pleased for you and well done.

 

Grotesque, is there any chance you could elaborate on your interesting observations and world domination [or the universe for all I know] project, for us lesser mortals, please? :)

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Whoa!! You're not looking for exposures relating to any of T's perceived pecadillos I hope HB?

 

Groteque may of course wish to share his own personal thoughts with all of us

 

Heavens forfend, certainly not exposures! :) It was the hint of world domination that got my interest.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Guys,

 

I have tried getting a telephone number for them but couldnt find anything.

 

Can anyone help?

 

Thanks

 

All, thanks for the great advice. I wrote a very grovelling letter, explaining about losing my job, career etc, and then managed to call them. After a bit of back & forth which involved me faxing my letter to them, I spoke to a Prosecutor. He could not have been more helpful. He explained that it was my delay in sending the form back (almost 2 months, i'm ashamed to say.) that has generted the court summons. He said they don't set out to ruin people's lives or careers, and court is a last option. He had reviewed my case & letter, and was happy for me to pay their full costs (£13.60 fare differential +£100.00 court costs) to settle out of court.

He explained that the summons will still be called at court, but would be marked as 'withdrawn' - so no ciriminal record, the court don't get involved. the railway DO keep all your details, so next time, they do send you straight to court.

The message to all you genuine 'victims' is, speak to them - they are reasonable people, explain why you were in the wrong, apologise + say it was a one-off, offer to pay the full costs and the problem goes away!

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  • 4 weeks later...
All, thanks for the great advice. I wrote a very grovelling letter, explaining about losing my job, career etc, and then managed to call them. After a bit of back & forth which involved me faxing my letter to them, I spoke to a Prosecutor. He could not have been more helpful. He explained that it was my delay in sending the form back (almost 2 months, i'm ashamed to say.) that has generted the court summons. He said they don't set out to ruin people's lives or careers, and court is a last option. He had reviewed my case & letter, and was happy for me to pay their full costs (£13.60 fare differential +£100.00 court costs) to settle out of court.

He explained that the summons will still be called at court, but would be marked as 'withdrawn' - so no ciriminal record, the court don't get involved. the railway DO keep all your details, so next time, they do send you straight to court.

The message to all you genuine 'victims' is, speak to them - they are reasonable people, explain why you were in the wrong, apologise + say it was a one-off, offer to pay the full costs and the problem goes away!

 

Weller : Can you provide the telephone number of the procecutions department please?

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