Sky [barclaycard] - Default Notice/Termination of account

[johno23]

Hi alll

 

I would really like some advice on the default notice and termination of account letters I have received from skycard.

 

I sent a CCA request in August and have received an application form that is invalid in line with the consumer credit act 1974.

 

I am aware that they are not able to apply a default on my credit file as the account is in dispute.

 

However i have read many threads on default notices and termination of account, but have been unable to get my head around it.

 

Please can someone have a look at the following letters and advice. As i am not clear on the rules. I have deleted all personal data, but to make you aware the arrears on the letter dated the 3rd June are higher than the letter dated 4th May, if this matters.

 

Also I am not sure if a default has been placed on my file as yet, but they say on the 3rd June my account is now closed.

 

Gosh i am so lost with this!!!

 

Many Thanks for all your support.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2009 by johno23
Deleted personal data

[the_shadow]

By my mental arithmetic they have miscounted the days on the default notice, they've given you 13 days instead of 14... probably forgot that they claim postage on the 4th when it was a bank hol so postage is deemed the 5th with two working days allowed for service....

 

So:

 

4th B/Hol Default Notice letter "created"

5th Actual put into postal system

7th Deemed served on this day

8th First Calendar day of 14

21st Last Calendar day of 14

22nd Rectify date by my counting.

 

also prescribed format of the terms seem incorrect, should have bold and underlining or some other way of standing out... italics doesnt seem to do the job in my opinion.

 

S.

[johno23]

does it depend on the date they put the default on.

 

How long do they have to place a default on my credit file or can they put it on whenever they like after the 21 days, as I do not think they have palced a default on my file as yet.

 

Also i take it they can not now write to me with another default notice can they even if they have not placed a default on my file.

 

thanks

 

Johno

[the_shadow]

this has nothing to do with placing a default on your credit file....

the default notice is a legal requirement to be correct and the termination notice means there is no agreement to issue another possibly correct default notice on.

 

 

They have terminated on the back of in my opinion a faulty DN and as such are only allowed to reclaim the amount of arrears mentioned on the default notice.

 

S.

[ncf355]

Not sure that the account being in dispute prevents the default, this would only be if you had a very good case on the construction of the CCA being wrong

 

When was the agreement taken out? could you scan a copy of the agreement sent to you and post it up here so we can comment?

 

The days for action are very tenuous, not sure how a court would see that and I wouldnt like to bet much on it, you would need a very clued up judge to get them on that one

 

The italics MAY just pass the test, as they do make those portions of the text stand out more than the others, again, I would be wary of betting on that

 

Does the arrears amount claimed match that of the statements at the time?

 

You state the amount of arrears increases in the second letter, is this just due to interest in the time passed?

[the_shadow]

The days for action are very tenuous, not sure how a court would see that and I wouldnt like to bet much on it, you would need a very clued up judge to get them on that one

 

Tenuous you say....

 

A Tale of a Dodgy Default Notice

 

 

S.

[johno23]

Hi

 

The CCA is clearly an application forms and provides none of the precribed terms.

 

The arrears increased due to interest and default charges. Sorry the account is in dispute due to an invalid CCA.

 

Will have to check the statement totals.

[johno23]

this has nothing to do with placing a default on your credit file.... the default notice is a legal requirement to be correct and the termination notice means there is no agreement to issue another possibly correct default notice on. They have terminated on the back of in my opinion a faulty DN and as such are only allowed to reclaim the amount of arrears mentioned on the default notice.

 

S.

 

so if the account is in dispute and they have now forwarded to me an invalid default notice and only the arrears need to be paid if any.

 

what are my options next.

 

Any idea of a letter!

 

Johno

[42man]

I don't suppose you still have the envelopes the DN was delivered in do you ?

[42man]

And Shadow's points are spot on !!!

[johno23]

i have the recent envelope to the letter dated 3rd of June, It only arrived today.

 

It says TNT post with a big black S in a square box in the top right hand corner of the envelope.

 

So does that mean it is second class.

 

Any ideas of a letter as i am willing to offer the arrears as final settlement as lond as the default is removed and the account placed as settled with the credit reference agencies.

 

Also the CCA does not have any of the precribed terms and is clearly an application form.

 

Thanks

 

Johno23

[the_shadow]

i have the recent envelope to the letter dated 3rd of June, It only arrived today.

 

It says TNT post with a big black S in a square box in the top right hand corner of the envelope.

 

So does that mean it is second class.

 

Unfortunately the envelope thats important is the 4th May.

 

The Duff DN only comes into play if they take you to court, they will argue that it makes no difference. The fact you say the agreement has no prescribed terms in it puts you in a stronger bargaining position but again they will claim thats not true and only a court can rule on enforceability which IS true.

 

It wouldnt hurt to put it together in a letter and advise them about the DN and prescribed terms, they have already terminated so no problem there.

 

What I think you will find though that as they have just terminated they will sell the account on pretty soon or you'll be hearing from an internal DCA and then the room for negotiating a settlement of f&f increases in my opinion. Getting the Default removed is going to be trickier I feel.

 

S.

 

IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinions. These opinions are based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal or debt related training.

[johno23]

is there any links to any threads where caggers have been successful in removing defaults when it is a disputed account & invalid DN.

 

Would it be wise to start court procedings then!

 

Johno23

[the_shadow]

is there any links to any threads where caggers have been successful in removing defaults when it is a disputed account & invalid DN.

 

Would it be wise to start court procedings then!

 

Johno23

 

I'm afraid you'll have to trawl through the won threads to see how people have done and whats been achieved, I tend to note the WIN and not look to see whats been won as such.

 

The Default removal is going to be difficult.... they have an agreement from you say the prescribed terms are not there and as such I think the CRA's and the ICO will say that you agreed to the data protection reporting, hence the default.

 

If they take you to court then the duff DN comes into play and the terminating of the account, you then have the chance to argue that if the contract is thrown out the default on your account should be too.

 

If you take them to court then the burden of proof falls on you to show that the agreement is unenforceable... this is what the rankines tried to do and do badly! Depending on the amount outstanding on the card it could be expensive in costs if you lose.

 

Just my opinions.

 

S.

 

IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinions. These opinions are based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal or debt related training.

[welshwizard]

Reading the DN, I ask myself this:

 

The initial letter is dated the 4th of May and states quite clearly that the DN is 'attached'. What i don't see is an actual date ON THE DEFAULT NOTICE- is this correct? Should the date also be on the DN itself?

 

Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree though.....................

[cerberusalert]

The DN was dated 4th May does that date ring any bells anyone?

[johno23]

Bank holiday. It was sent second class as well.

[cerberusalert]

So it couldn't have been posted until at least the 5th & what financial institutions work on a Bank Holiday.

[sam614]

would that be may day bank holiday monday:D

SAM:pLOWELL DETESTER

[the_shadow]

Bank holiday. It was sent second class as well.

 

Well now........ you didnt state that above did you when I mentioned first class is deemed 2 days from posting...... second class or equiv is classed as 4 days so revised its:-

 

4th B/Hol Default Notice letter "created"

5th Actual put into postal system

11th Deemed served on this day

12th First Calendar day of 14

25th Last Calendar day of 14

26nd Rectify date by my counting.

 

They cut you short by 5 days!

 

Would be helpful if you had kept the envelope but if you SAR them you may get something noting down the postage of the DN and how they posted it.

 

S.

[rainbow moon]

Johno - you have left your card account number on the second page from sky

Rainbow x

[johno23]

Cheers rainbow, I have taken the letter off for now, will post it up some other time.

[johno23]

Ok posted up the credit agreement that i have received regarding this account.

 

Any advice/comments always appreciated!

 

[the_shadow]

Ok posted up the credit agreement that i have received regarding this account.

 

Any advice/comments always appreciated!

 

 

Not a single prescribed term on that application, unenforceable as shown in my humble opinion.

 

S.

[cerberusalert]

It doecn't contain the prescribed terms so would be deemed unenforceable.

 

See; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162851-consumer-credit-agreements-guide.html