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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Court Case #2 - Northern Rock


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Hi all.

 

I have to set about a defence to be submitted in 14 days.

 

Not sure how myself and my wife can get around this one to be honest. We had to stop paying as we could not afford it. We made a token payment, and soon after received court papers after been sent default notices etc.

 

I have attached the particulars of claim... a bit less vague than the last case .. If someone can pick it to pieces when they get a chance we would be very grateful. Obviously I have removed all details so in places it looks a bit err...blank!

 

Here's hoping :)

Scan001_Page_1.zip

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Hi all.

 

I have to set about a defence to be submitted in 14 days.

 

Not sure how myself and my wife can get around this one to be honest. We had to stop paying as we could not afford it. We made a token payment, and soon after received court papers after been sent default notices etc.

 

I have attached the particulars of claim... a bit less vague than the last case .. If someone can pick it to pieces when they get a chance we would be very grateful. Obviously I have removed all details so in places it looks a bit err...blank!

 

Here's hoping :)

 

 

Hi,

Can i get some advice from somebody please?

 

The Default Notice sent to us dated the 17th Feb 09 states that we had to respond within 17 days of the date on the letter....to me that means a response was required no later than the 5th Mar.

That is including the date the letter was sent, as per the requirements of the Default Notice.

 

The Solicitors POC states

"Pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974, by a notice of default served on the defendant on 17th Feb 09, the claimant required the defendant to remedy the said breach by 3 March 09"

 

That surely is not correct? Is the default notice or the solicitor wrong? Either way, can the inconsistency be used as a defence?

 

The POC then continues...

"The defendant failed to remedy the breach within the said period and by a written demand dated 26 March 09 and served upon the Defendant, the claimant demanded from the defendant repayment of the outstanding loan balance of £xxxx.xx and thereby notified the defendant that failure to pay that sum within 7 days may result in the claimant issuing county court procedings to recover the balance due"

 

They are referring to a final demand sent on the 26th... but nowhere in the demand does it mention "7 days". just says that they demand immediate payment...no timeframe mentioned at all.

 

Can this be used as a defence too?

 

I still have to send a CPR request... im hoping to get that off on Monday.

 

Hope someone can advise.

 

Thanks

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When did the summons arrive - the issue date appears to be the 22nd of April...that doesn't give you 14 days to file a defence

 

Have you filed the AoS indicating that you're going to defend.

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Hi,

Can i get some advice from somebody please?

 

The Default Notice sent to us dated the 17th Feb 09 states that we had to respond within 17 days of the date on the letter....to me that means a response was required no later than the 5th Mar.

That is including the date the letter was sent, as per the requirements of the Default Notice.

 

The Solicitors POC states

"Pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974, by a notice of default served on the defendant on 17th Feb 09, the claimant required the defendant to remedy the said breach by 3 March 09"

 

That surely is not correct? Is the default notice or the solicitor wrong? Either way, can the inconsistency be used as a defence?

 

The POC then continues...

"The defendant failed to remedy the breach within the said period and by a written demand dated 26 March 09 and served upon the Defendant, the claimant demanded from the defendant repayment of the outstanding loan balance of £xxxx.xx and thereby notified the defendant that failure to pay that sum within 7 days may result in the claimant issuing county court procedings to recover the balance due"

 

They are referring to a final demand sent on the 26th... but nowhere in the demand does it mention "7 days". just says that they demand immediate payment...no timeframe mentioned at all.

 

Can this be used as a defence too?

 

I still have to send a CPR request... im hoping to get that off on Monday.

 

Hope someone can advise.

 

Thanks

 

The PoC are wrong - assuming that the DN was posted 1st class on the 17th February it would be deemed to arrive on the 19th and would be effective from the 20th expiring on the 5th - on the basis of the dates the DN appears to be valid BUT we'd need to see the actual DN

 

You need to get the CPR 31.14 off ASAP

 

Is the claim above or below £5000

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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The PoC are wrong - assuming that the DN was posted 1st class on the 17th February it would be deemed to arrive on the 19th and would be effective from the 20th expiring on the 5th - on the basis of the dates the DN appears to be valid BUT we'd need to see the actual DN

 

You need to get the CPR 31.14 off ASAP

 

Is the claim above or below £5000

 

Hi...thanks for responding...

The dates are a bit crazy on the court forms... We received them late but we phoned the court and they had made allowances for the late postal of the papers. We had to have our AOS in by Thursday just gone. So we have until the 28th to file our defence.

 

The DN dates always confuse me which is why i was asking, but I am clutching at straws i think...I dont know how we are going to get out of this one lol.

 

The claim is for just over £3k

 

CPR will be sent ASAP

:-|

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Hi...thanks for responding...

The dates are a bit crazy on the court forms... We received them late but we phoned the court and they had made allowances for the late postal of the papers. We had to have our AOS in by Thursday just gone. So we have until the 28th to file our defence.

 

The DN dates always confuse me which is why i was asking, but I am clutching at straws i think...I dont know how we are going to get out of this one lol.

 

The claim is for just over £3k

 

CPR will be sent ASAP

:-|

 

 

It will be a day or two before I can get the DN up... Would it help if I typed the whole thing up on here?

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The PoC are wrong - assuming that the DN was posted 1st class on the 17th February it would be deemed to arrive on the 19th and would be effective from the 20th expiring on the 5th - on the basis of the dates the DN appears to be valid BUT we'd need to see the actual DN

 

You need to get the CPR 31.14 off ASAP

 

Is the claim above or below £5000

 

Hi Again...here is the Default Notice in its entirety exactly as it appears on the letter they sent.

 

 

 

 

Northern Rock blah blah

Name

Address etc

17th Feb 2009

Dear Miss xxxxx

Important You Should Read This Carefully

Re: Miss xxxx

Account Number: xxxxxx

Balance: £xxxx

This Default Notice is served in accordance with Section 87(1) of the Comsumer Credit Act 1974

Notice is hereby given that, in accordance with Clause 4 of your agreement with Northern Rock PLC, monthly payments to your account stated above have not been maintained and an arrears amount of £xxx.xx is now outstanding.

You are required, within 17 days of this notice, to remit direct to Northern Rock PLC the full arrears amount stated.

IF THE ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE IS TAKEN BEFORE THE DATE SHOWN NO FURTHER ENFORCEMENT ACTION WILL BE TAKEN IN RESPECT OF THE BREACH.

IF YOU DO NOT TAKE THE ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE BEFORE THE DATE SHOWN THEN THE FURTHER ACTION SET OUT BELOW MAY BE TAKEN AGAINST YOU.

Steps will be taken to register this Default Notice with the Credit Reference Agencies in 28 days time.

Action will commence to recover the full balance of the account together with the interest charge. This could involve Court proceedings for which the Court costs and legal fees may be payable by yourself.

IF YOU HAVE ANY DIFFICULTY IN PAYING ANY SUM OWING UNDER THE AGREEMENT OR TAKING ANY OTHER ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE, YOU CAN APPLY TO THE COURT WHICH MAY MAKE AN ORDER ALLOWING YOU OR ANY SURETY MORE TIME.

You should be aware that if we take you to court and get a judgement against you requiring you to pay us the money you owe us under the agreement, you may have to pay us both the amount of the judgement, and interest under the agreement on all the sums owed by you at the date of the judgement until you have paid these in full. This means that even if you pay off the whole amount of the judgement, you may still have a further sum to pay.

IF YOU ARE NOT SURE WHAT TO DO, YOU SHOULD GET HELP AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. FOR EXAMPLE YOU SHOULD CONTACT A SOLICITOR, YOUR LOCAL TRADING STANDARDS DEPARTMENT OR YOUR NEAREST CITIZENS ADVICE BUREAU.

This notice should include a copy of the current Office of Fair Trading information sheet on default. This contains important information about your rights and where to go for support and advice. If it is not included, you should contact us to get one.

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Hi,

Just getting my CPR ready to send... Do i send it to the solicitors or NR themselves? There is no DCA involved.

 

Thanks

 

The Solicitors

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Hi Again...here is the Default Notice in its entirety exactly as it appears on the letter they sent.

 

 

 

 

 

Northern Rock blah blah

 

Name

Address etc

 

 

17th Feb 2009

 

Dear Miss xxxxx

 

Important You Should Read This Carefully

 

Re: Miss xxxx

Account Number: xxxxxx

Balance: £xxxx

This Default Notice is served in accordance with Section 87(1) of the Comsumer Credit Act 1974

 

Notice is hereby given that, in accordance with Clause 4 of your agreement with Northern Rock PLC, monthly payments to your account stated above have not been maintained and an arrears amount of £xxx.xx is now outstanding.

 

You are required, within 17 days of this notice, to remit direct to Northern Rock PLC the full arrears amount stated.

 

IF THE ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE IS TAKEN BEFORE THE DATE SHOWN NO FURTHER ENFORCEMENT ACTION WILL BE TAKEN IN RESPECT OF THE BREACH.

 

IF YOU DO NOT TAKE THE ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE BEFORE THE DATE SHOWN THEN THE FURTHER ACTION SET OUT BELOW MAY BE TAKEN AGAINST YOU.

 

Steps will be taken to register this Default Notice with the Credit Reference Agencies in 28 days time.

 

Action will commence to recover the full balance of the account together with the interest charge. This could involve Court proceedings for which the Court costs and legal fees may be payable by yourself.

 

IF YOU HAVE ANY DIFFICULTY IN PAYING ANY SUM OWING UNDER THE AGREEMENT OR TAKING ANY OTHER ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE, YOU CAN APPLY TO THE COURT WHICH MAY MAKE AN ORDER ALLOWING YOU OR ANY SURETY MORE TIME.

 

You should be aware that if we take you to court and get a judgement against you requiring you to pay us the money you owe us under the agreement, you may have to pay us both the amount of the judgement, and interest under the agreement on all the sums owed by you at the date of the judgement until you have paid these in full. This means that even if you pay off the whole amount of the judgement, you may still have a further sum to pay.

 

IF YOU ARE NOT SURE WHAT TO DO, YOU SHOULD GET HELP AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. FOR EXAMPLE YOU SHOULD CONTACT A SOLICITOR, YOUR LOCAL TRADING STANDARDS DEPARTMENT OR YOUR NEAREST CITIZENS ADVICE BUREAU.

 

This notice should include a copy of the current Office of Fair Trading information sheet on default. This contains important information about your rights and where to go for support and advice. If it is not included, you should contact us to get one.

 

 

Hi,

Is anyone able to take time to examine the above DN please? I think there is a discrepancy with the date, but I am not sure.

 

Thanks in Advance

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I would check the requirements on the regs as I believe they have to specify an actual date to remedy by and not just say within 17 days so this in itself would make it invalid. Please ask for further confirmation on this as I'm still learning as we go along. Also has the account now been terminated? as they would only be able to collect the arrears if they have terminated the account based on a DN that is invalid.

Hope somebody will comment further on this.

 

Regards

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Thanks Ghostdebt... I too am learning...nothing like being in at the deep end eh? I have another 4 or 5 of these to go!!

 

I dont believe we will win em all...but I'm gonna give it a damn good go! Just wish I knew what I was talking about :D

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Interesting....found this article... its about a motor vehicle arrangement of sorts...but its got to be relevant?

 

It sure does say that a date needs to be specified

 

Happy Days....can anyone confirm this is the case?

 

"

Default Notices

 

 

Section 87(1) of the 1974 Act allows the creditor to send you a default notice giving you fourteen days from the date you receive it to pay the arrears. The default notice must contain all of the necessary information under the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 ('the 1983 Regulations'), which includes

  • a statement saying the notice is a default notice served under section 87(1) of the 1974 Act
  • a description of the agreement
  • the name and address of both the debtor and the creditor
  • details of the breach (i.e. late payment) and, if the breach can be remedied, the date by which it must be remedied or, if the breach is not capable of remedy, the amount required to be paid after the expiry of the specified date;
  • a statement saying: if the action required by this notice is taken before the date shown no further enforcement action will be taken in respect of that breach
  • a statement saying: if you do not take the action required by this notice before the date shown then the further action set out below may be taken against you
  • a clear and unambiguous statement saying that if the action is not taken by the date specified, what it will do (for example, if will it terminate the agreement and recovery possession of the motor vehicle)
  • if the agreement is one of hire purchase or conditional sale, a statement saying: but if you have paid at least one third of the total amount payable under the agreement set out below (or any installation charge plus one third of the rest of the amount payable). The creditor may not take back the goods against your wishes unless he gets a court order. (In Scotland, he may need to get a court order at any time.) If he does take them back without your consent or a court order, you have the right to get back all of the money you have paid under the agreement set out below
  • if an amount of money is required to be paid, the amount before deducting any rebate on early settlement
  • statements saying:
    if you have difficulty in paying any sum owing under the agreement or taking any other action required by this notice, you can apply to the court which may make an order allowing you more time
    if you are not sure what to do, you should get help as soon as possible. For example you should contact a solicitor, your local trading standards department or your nearest citizens' advice bureau
    important - you should read this carefully

Under Regulations 33 of the Consumer Credit (Information Requirements and Duration of Licenses and Charges) Regulations 2007 the default notice must from 1 October 2008 also include the following statement:

You have the right to end this agreement at any time
before the final payment falls due. Note that this right may be lost if you do not act before the date shown (after which we may take action).
If the date for final payment has not passed and you wish to end this agreement, you should write to the person to whom you make your payments. You will need to pay £ if you wish to end this agreement by the date shown and we will be entitled to the return of the goods. You will also be liable for costs if you have not taken reasonable care of the goods.

If the default notice fails to include all of the necessary information, it is likely to be ineffective and will not allow the creditor to recovery the motor vehicle unless you give your consent to the recovery. So, what can you do if it is recovered against your wishes? The answer depends on how much you have paid to the creditor.

If you have paid more than one third of the total amount payable, section 90 of the 1974 Act states that the motor vehicle is 'protected' from repossession. So, if the motor vehicle is recovered then, under section 91 of the 1974 Act you are entitled to a return of all of the money you have paid to the creditor, regardless of how long you have had the motor vehicle.

If you have paid less than one third of the total amount payable, the motor vehicle is not protected from repossession. Instead, if it is recovered you can say that the creditor has wrongfully interfered with your right to possession of the motor vehicle. The Court cleared-up what this meant in Chartered Trust plc v King (2001) WL 172107 and decided that the debtor (i.e. you) are entitled to a return of all of the money paid to the creditor. Again, it is irrelevant how long you have had the motor vehicle.

Debtor's Termination

Under section 99 of the 1974 Act a debtor under a hire purchase or conditional sale agreement can, at any time before the agreement has ended, give written notice to the creditor to end the agreement. Once the agreement has ended, you have to return to the motor vehicle in a reasonable condition and, if you have paid less than a half of the total amount payable, you must pay the creditor the difference between one half of the agreement and what you have paid. If you have paid more than one half, you only have to return the motor vehicle and pay the arrears at the date of your letter.

It is important to remember that you can exercise your right under section 99 of the 1974 Act even if you have received a default notice as long as the date in that notice has not passed. In First Response Finance Limited v Donnelly [2006] GCCR 5901 the Court considered whether a debtor's termination after the date specified in the default notice would limit the amount payable to the creditor to the difference between one half of the agreement and what had been paid. It decided that it did not and the debtor was liable for the total amount payable under the agreement minus the amount paid by the debtor and the motor vehicle's net sale proceeds.

Time Order

Before you can apply to the Court for a time order, you must be served with a default notice or, when they become required by law, an arrears notice. Normally, the Court only has the power to give you extra time to pay the arrears but if the agreement is one of hire purchase or conditional sale, it can make an order under section 130(2) of the 1974 Act to effectively re-write the agreement.

The Court will consider your financial position. It is therefore vital that you send to the Court and the creditor as much information as possible about your financial position and explain, with evidence, how it will get better. If there is little prospect of it doing so, the Court is unlikely after the decision in First National Bank plc v Syed [1991] 2 All ER 250 to give you extra time to pay."

Edited by Luxxinterior
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Have a look through the following actual regs for clarification

 

These Regulations may be cited as the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices)

Regulations 1983 and shall come into operation on 19th May 1985

http://www.check-my-debt.co.uk/uploaded_files/CC-En-D-T-Notices1974-SI1983-1561.pdf

 

Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 and shall come into force on the 31st December 2004

The Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004

 

 

Regards

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Can anyone help Clarify the Situation with Dates on Default Notices?

 

Specifically the date required to rectify a breach.

 

On some of mine it says " within XX days of RECEIPT of this Notice"

That to me could not be any more vague!!

 

Some say "within XX days from the date on this letter" ie: the postal date

Vague too, but at least a time frame!

 

The CCA 1974 specifically mentions the word date as opposed to "a range of dates" ...but has this ever been confirmed by Case Law?

 

I am so confused...on top of the issue whereby a date is actually specified, but where the postal date has not been considered and enough time has not been given.

 

Any Clarity would be much appreciated.

:???:

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Hi,

I could really do with some help please?

 

I have until Thursday to submit my defence for this case.

Basically a loan with Northern Rock... have just received a response to my CPR request as follows...

 

"Thank you for your letter dated blah blah blah...

As requested we enclose copies of the following:

1. Loan agreement including terms and conditions relating to the agreement. ( I can barely read it! not to say its illegible, just the copy of it)

2. Default notice ( which I have already )

3. Formal demand ( i did not ask for this, i asked for the termination notice)

Please note that our client does not retain copies of default notices and formal demands. Accordingly, the copies which are enclosed are reconstitued documents using data from our clients electronic records.

 

Yours Faithfully"

 

Umm...have they complied??

no termination notice,

a reconstituted default notice which is the same as the one i typed in an earlier post which does not specify a date, even though it insists the breach is remedied by "before the date shown"

 

I am not sure where to go with this one. I cannot really tell if the agreement is enforceable as i cannot read it.

 

I am unlikely to receive a legible copy before Thursday....Is what I have enough to build a defence with?

 

 

Fingers Crossed

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This link may give you some help to understand the issues.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/200901-anatomy-default-notice.html#post2186015

 

Have you made a start on your defence so that people can help you with it? If so please post it up, and if not, the links should help you make a start.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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This link may give you some help to understand the issues.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/200901-anatomy-default-notice.html#post2186015

 

Have you made a start on your defence so that people can help you with it? If so please post it up, and if not, the links should help you make a start.

 

Hi Caro,

Thanks for that, I will have a read.

 

I would not know where to start with a defence.. I am not knowledgeable enough yet i guess. I think I may have bitten off more than I can chew. I have another possible 3-4 cases coming up too :O

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This is a self help site Lux, but that doesn't mean you won't get help too. If you do lot's of reading you'll no doubt find threads discussing similar issues to your own case and learn what you need to know.

 

If and when you get to court you'll be on your own, so if you can understand the issues now you'll have a much better chance of winning.;)

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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This link may give you some help to understand the issues.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/200901-anatomy-default-notice.html#post2186015

 

Have you made a start on your defence so that people can help you with it? If so please post it up, and if not, the links should help you make a start.

 

 

I guess based on the fact that the Credit agreement is illegible, and i am unlikely to get a legible one by thursday, my hopes lie on the default notice being invalid!!

 

I have gathered that a date must be specified, so to me then that renders it invalid...

 

Just wish i knew how to word it in legal terms lol

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You are a litigant in person so the judge won't mind if you put it in your own terms. Just write it as you see it, quote any relevant law or cases you find. It help to make it clearer if you have a paragraph for each point and number them.

 

You may well be able to find defences that you can use paragraphs from to build your own defence. We all have to start somewhere and it's safer to work it out and make any mistakes here than find out about them in court when it's too late to put it right.

 

The hard part is always getting started. You've already got some points identified on this thread you could use.;)

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Ok...I have taken assunder the POC and have found the following

 

"By a Consumer Credit Agreement in writing made between the Claimant and the defendant dated 6th June 2007 the claimant agreed to advance to the defendant the sum of £xxxx. The said sum was advanced to the defendant on or about 6 June 2007.

1. The agreement was signed in advance by them on the 4th...signed by my Wife on the 5th...dont know where they are getting the 6th? That would be the earliest date they would have received the form back, not the date of the agreement

 

2. The amount they state is not accurate, my wife signed for insurance too, making the sum more than that, but their 48 monthly installment details are correct.

 

"Pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974, by a notice of default served on the Defendant on 17th Feb 2009, the Claimant required the Defendant to remedy the said breach by 3rd March 2009"

1. Their Default Notice was dated the 17th. In their terms and conditions it states

"Any Notice or Demand we give will be assumed to have been properly given if served on you personally, or left or sEnt by prepaid post addressed to you at your current or last known business or private address. IF SENT BY FIRST CLASS POST IT WILL BE ASSUMED TO HAVE BEEN RECEIVED BY YOU 48 HOURS AFTER POSTING"

 

That means we would have received it on the 19th. By my calculations that means the 6th March is the remedy date.

The Solicitor states we had until the 3rd March (13 days) and the DN itself merely states within 17 days of this notice...I make 17 days after the 17th Feb to be the 5th Mar.

This all seems wrong!!

My understanding is the regardless of the dates, the DN is invalid as it does not specify a date to remedy the breach.

 

"The Defendant failed to remedy the breach within the said period ( emm,3rd? 5th or 6th? )and by a written demand dated 26th March 2009 the claimant demanded repayment of the outstanding loan balance and notified the defendant that failure to pay that sum within 7 days may result in blah blah blah"

1. They are referring to a formal demand and Termination notice dated the 26th March. Again we would have received it on the 28th but nowhere on the letter does it give a date or even a period of time as stated by the solicitor.... it just says they want it immediately!!!

Utter Rubbish

 

That is all I have at the moment as my defence. I have to put it into legal terms, but does anyone have any additions or pearls of wisdom that may help here??

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited by Luxxinterior
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