Validity of claims management companies? Moved from "Unenforceability Cases on hold until further notice"

[platinum1]

As a consumer I am overwhelmed by the prospect of doing this myself, I have found a company who do charge an upfront fee (£295), they are regulated and appear very professional.

 

They have explained the reason they charge a fee is that the solicitors they use are experienced in consumer credit law but charge a fee to review each and every credit agreement.

 

Once the solicitor accepts a case it is then on a no win no fee basis, if successful there are no further charges (so im told).

 

Is this reasonable and realistic?

[WelshMam2009]

As a consumer I am overwhelmed by the prospect of doing this myself, I have found a company who do charge an upfront fee (£295), they are regulated and appear very professional.

 

They have explained the reason they charge a fee is that the solicitors they use are experienced in consumer credit law but charge a fee to review each and every credit agreement.

 

Once the solicitor accepts a case it is then on a no win no fee basis, if successful there are no further charges (so im told).

 

Is this reasonable and realistic?

 

This is what CAB say on the matter...

 

Citizens Advice warned that the claims handlers usually charge about £500 upfront to check a credit agreement, even though there is no guarantee of success. Where people have several debts, the fees can quickly mount up to several thousands of pounds and people may then be sold a "no win, no fee" agreement to take legal action that can cost them even more.

[platinum1]

Confused, if no win no fee how would it cost more?

[Wigeon]

As a consumer I am overwhelmed by the prospect of doing this myself, I have found a company who do charge an upfront fee (£295), they are regulated and appear very professional.

 

They have explained the reason they charge a fee is that the solicitors they use are experienced in consumer credit law but charge a fee to review each and every credit agreement.

 

Once the solicitor accepts a case it is then on a no win no fee basis, if successful there are no further charges (so im told).

 

Is this reasonable and realistic?

 

At £295 it is prob Brunel Franklin, ??

[angry cat]

Remember the old saying;

how much does it cost you if its free?

 

There is nothing free in this world, eveything has its price!

[WelshMam2009]

Confused, if no win no fee how would it cost more?

 

I'm not a 100% certain, as this was CAB's quote and not mine.

 

However, I've had some dealings with personal injury claims and there, the claimants were sold after the event insurance policies which covered the "no win no fee."

 

I'm not sure if it's properly termed a Conditional Fee but generally there is an upfront payment.

 

 

Also, you are considering paying someone to assess your agreement when that can be done for you for free on here!

[Wigeon]

With claims under financial irregularities the insurance should be a cost paid by the solicitor who takes on the claim, at no cost to the person brining the action.

As to assessments of claims I have seen and read some widely varying ideas on this and other forums. Some of the suggestions are spot on some are very wide of the mark. The CCA 74 has forty plus pieces of legislation attached to it, on top of that there are numerous Office of Fair Trade regulation and guide lines the two principle ones run to 85 pages each.

Then there are the cases 25 plus of them then you have the various texts on Consumer Law (Goode in particular) Finally there is disclosure of the various documents that you need from the lender and assessment of those to see if they give rise for a claim for breaches of fiduciary duty, law of agency, Consumer Credit Act claims, and where a case ceases to be a claim under one head and becomes a claim under another.

Please do not mis-understand me. Some claims can be run by lawyers but becuase the lower courts are really only now just learning about these types of claims you risk losing at the first hurdle and in some cases losing you home because of the wrong application of the law.

 

Even where it is for unsecured debt, how do you prevent the lender marking an unpaid card or loan as a default rather than a debt which should be removed from your record?

 

I have been running this sort of case for over 10 years even before CMC's had even heard of the Consumer Credit Act. Many who are running these have 'borrowed' my ideas and are now passing them off as their own...................very annoying

[pt2537]

With claims under financial irregularities the insurance should be a cost paid by the solicitor who takes on the claim, at no cost to the person brining the action.

 

As to assessments of claims I have seen and read some widely varying ideas on this and other forums. Some of the suggestions are spot on some are very wide of the mark. The CCA 74 has forty plus pieces of legislation attached to it, on top of that there are numerous Office of Fair Trade regulation and guide lines the two principle ones run to 85 pages each.

 

Then there are the cases 25 plus of them then you have the various texts on Consumer Law (Goode in particular) Finally there is disclosure of the various documents that you need from the lender and assessment of those to see if they give rise for a claim for breaches of fiduciary duty, law of agency, Consumer Credit Act claims, and where a case ceases to be a claim under one head and becomes a claim under another.

 

Please do not mis-understand me. Some claims can be run by lawyers but becuase the lower courts are really only now just learning about these types of claims you risk losing at the first hurdle and in some cases losing you home because of the wrong application of the law.

 

Even where it is for unsecured debt, how do you prevent the lender marking an unpaid card or loan as a default rather than a debt which should be removed from your record?

 

I have been running this sort of case for over 10 years even before CMC's had even heard of the Consumer Credit Act. Many who are running these have 'borrowed' my ideas and are now passing them off as their own...................very annoying

 

Hmm, you will have to forgive me if im not entirely convinced by this comment.

 

ATE insurance is something that the solicitor does not pay for if you use the right company

 

secondly , "Many who are running these have 'borrowed' my ideas and are now passing them off as their own" im not sure im convinced by this comment either, unless of course you are the famous Mrs Wilson

 

 

as for

 

"Please do not mis-understand me. Some claims can be run by lawyers but becuase the lower courts are really only now just learning about these types of claims you risk losing at the first hurdle and in some cases losing you home because of the wrong application of the law."

 

the only thing i can say that that is utter rubbish, the courts are only just learning??????

 

no way, this is soooo wrong in my view, the courts apply the law to the facts, you bring the law to the courts attention and in the cases on here where the case is lost, invariably it is the fact that the LIP fails to advance the correct arguments that causes the loss. the courts are not there to conduct legal research for you

 

equally, if you read the Walker judgment for example you will see that they faield even to plead the fact that the agreement was unenforceable until bringing the matter to appeal

[I've got no money]

The CCA 74 has forty plus pieces of legislation attached to it, on top of that there are numerous Office of Fair Trade regulation and guide lines the two principle ones run to 85 pages each.

 

Then there are the cases 25 plus of them then you have the various texts on Consumer Law (Goode in particular) Finally there is disclosure of the various documents that you need from the lender and assessment of those to see if they give rise for a claim for breaches of fiduciary duty, law of agency, Consumer Credit Act claims, and where a case ceases to be a claim under one head and becomes a claim under another.

 

Please do not mis-understand me. Some claims can be run by lawyers but becuase the lower courts are really only now just learning about these types of claims you risk losing at the first hurdle and in some cases losing you home because of the wrong application of the law.

 

 

It appears to be your contention that Consumer Credit is a complex area of law - incidentally it is no more complex than Tax or Company or public law or many other areas of law...you seem to be arguing that because its'a complex area of law that its' not appropriate for lawyers...

 

My experience is that the more complex the area of law the greater the need for specialist lawyers...

 

In my limited experience of CAG and consumer credit generally even non specialist lawyers can bring something to the party - that of course is an understanding of the CPR and of litigation generally

[steven4064]

I'm not a lawyer at all but I am a company director - give me the CCA over the Comapnies Act any day

[Wigeon]

ATE insurance is something that the solicitor does not pay for if you use the right company.

Don’t understand what you mean. In PI many lawyers/CMC’s made client’s pay for their ATE. The lawyers should pay for, however most premiums from the companies in the market are deferred.

secondly , "Many who are running these have 'borrowed' my ideas and are now passing them off as their own" im not sure im convinced by this comment either, unless of course you are the famous Mrs Wilson

I was running these cases as defensive actions against sub prime lenders before Mrs Wilson or for that matter Dimond v Lovell. So I do say that most of the CMC’s use the ideas. I train lawyers (over 150 firms) to run these cases and have written a entire manual used by many firms to run these cases.

as for

"Please do not mis-understand me. Some claims can be run by lawyers but becuase the lower courts are really only now just learning about these types of claims you risk losing at the first hurdle and in some cases losing you home because of the wrong application of the law."

the only thing i can say that that is utter rubbish, the courts are only just learning??????

I seem to have annoyed but I think you know little about me and what I have done and do at the moment. The problem is with the ADJ’s and DJ’s who have for years been very hard to convince that the claim’s/defences have real validity.

no way, this is soooo wrong in my view, the courts apply the law to the facts, you bring the law to the courts attention and in the cases on here where the case is lost, invariably it is the fact that the LIP fails to advance the correct arguments that causes the loss. the courts are not there to conduct legal research for you.

One would ask how many times you have been in court on these matters. I have over 250 repossession actions fought and won to my credit 2/3’s based on the CCA74 and breaches of fiduciary matters.

equally, if you read the Walker judgment for example you will see that they faield even to plead the fact that the agreement was unenforceable until bringing the matter to appeal

I worked on the SPML v Walker case and contributed to the action that was won. The Walker case faced a very serious hurdle which was to stay the possession action then to persuade the court to here the defence. I became involved after the action had been commenced.

Finally why are you so hostile to what I have to say. I am very supportive of any taking actions against lenders for any sort of claim.

 

The text is dark is my response to the post

[Wigeon]

It appears to be your contention that Consumer Credit is a complex area of law - incidentally it is no more complex than Tax or Company or public law or many other areas of law...you seem to be arguing that because its'a complex area of law that its' not appropriate for lawyers...

 

My experience is that the more complex the area of law the greater the need for specialist lawyers...

 

In my limited experience of CAG and consumer credit generally even non specialist lawyers can bring something to the party - that of course is an understanding of the CPR and of litigation generally

 

Consumer Credit law is complex becuase it is tied in with a number of other disciplines. I train lawyers to run cases under these headings (CCA and Law of Agency) and find that an understanding of litigation and the CPR rules is not of as much assisatnce as you would at first think. All lawyers are looking for other fee earning work, what this area of law really needs is agressive litigators..........its the only thing the lenders are their packs of highly paid lawyers understand.

[pt2537]

 

Don’t understand what you mean. In PI many lawyers/CMC’s made client’s pay for their ATE. The lawyers should pay for, however most premiums from the companies in the market are deferred.

 

we have a delegated authority scheme with one of the biggest insurers so i do understand the market, your initial post lacked clarity in my view and hence why i made that comment

 

I was running these cases as defensive actions against sub prime lenders before Mrs Wilson or for that matter Dimond v Lovell. So I do say that most of the CMC’s use the ideas. I train lawyers (over 150 firms) to run these cases and have written a entire manual used by many firms to run these cases.

Interesting comment, the name of the publication would be helpful here id say

 

 

I seem to have annoyed but I think you know little about me and what I have done and do at the moment.

 

Do I? this is an interesting comment, i actually have no idea who you are so if you'd care to enlighten me a little id be very grateful

 

The problem is with the ADJ’s and DJ’s who have for years been very hard to convince that the claim’s/defences have real validity.

 

Hmm, well id say that the Lords in Wilson & FCT, the Court of Appeal in Wilson and Howard,Robertsons and the many other High Court and Court of Appeal rulings and the many many other cases reported in the CCLRs and also GCCLRs publications would give you strongenough argument to convince even the most sceptical DJ, Recorder, Circuit Judge that there is merit in such arguments. Ive never had a problem with it and have had enough wins in the courts to know that if you present your case properly you will have no problems

 

 

 

 

One would ask how many times you have been in court on these matters. I have over 250 repossession actions fought and won to my credit 2/3’s based on the CCA74 and breaches of fiduciary matters.

 

More than enough times to know the drill, unbeaten in 73 litigations before judge, over 500 cases that have concluded before trial so yes i do understand the basics, in respect of litigation in mortgage possessions i concede that i have not had any of that work, however i have dealt with secret commissions such as the type in Jack and Image View management or the type in Wilson and Hurstanger so again i understand and know enough to get by

 

 

I worked on the SPML v Walker case and contributed to the action that was won. The Walker case faced a very serious hurdle which was to stay the possession action then to persuade the court to here the defence. I became involved after the action had been commenced.

 

Well, i have to say that you had a fantastic result there as clearly the case with SPPL was not as straight forward as most. Greatest of respect if you had conduct of that case, you therefore must have some involvement with Turner Coulstons in that case, ?

 

Finally why are you so hostile to what I have to say. I am very supportive of any taking actions against lenders for any sort of claim.

 

Sorry if thats how i came accross, not agressive although i concede that internet forums can often be open to interpretation in that matter, i apologise if i gave the impression that i was being agressive, but then again we do sometimes get people posting on the forum who claim to be something they are not, this is the problem we are faced with

 

 

[Wigeon]

Happy to agree, I am very new to this type of communication. I am keen to help or give advice to anyone who needs it.

I have seen lenders and their lawyers playing on the sensitivities of lower court judges who still believe the maxim that lenders and their lawyers do not lie, always tell the truth and that if they say you owe the money then you must owe it. Very very wrong

I also note I cannot spell because HOHO

[I've got no money]

Consumer Credit law is complex becuase it is tied in with a number of other disciplines. I train lawyers to run cases under these headings (CCA and Law of Agency) and find that an understanding of litigation and the CPR rules is not of as much assisatnce as you would at first think. All lawyers are looking for other fee earning work, what this area of law really needs is agressive litigators..........its the only thing the lenders are their packs of highly paid lawyers understand.

 

Consumer Credit Law really is no more complex than any other area of law. It is basically a statutory scheme grafted onto to basic contract. I think that you are trying to make it sound more difficult than it actually is. Perhaps that helps with selling the courses...

 

As a rather aggressive litigator in my time - I would agree that Consumer needs aggressive litigators however I have to say that I do not accept that an understanding of litigation and the CPR is not of substantial assistance - surely if you're going to file a claim or a defence it is pretty crucial that you know how to draft pleadings and that you understand how to use the CPR to your advantage

 

With the greatest of respect if you actually use the CPR properly they are, in my view, of substantial assistance.

 

As any good litigator will tell you the art is not to get to trial it is to get the other side struck out before you get anywhere near trial. That is purely and simply about using the CPR

[platinum1]

At £295 it is prob Brunel Franklin, ??

 

no was an agent of liberty claims

 

EDIT COMMERCIAL LINKS ARE A BREACH OF SITE RULES

Edited May 16, 2009 by pt2537
see comment

[I've got no money]

Incidentally - my exprience of the lenders and their packs of "highly paid lawyers" - is that the opposite is often frequently true - often the Lawyers used are little more than debt collectors with one Solicitor and lots of unadmitted clerks.

 

I think it is true that where a lender uses "real" Solicitors that the debtor needs good Solicitors of their own...but most cases don't actually involve real Solicitors

[Kraken1]

I kinda do think that credit law is fairly complex, more so than many others. this is not to say that you can't get to grips with it, but I think it can be more complex because it is a layer of law on top of a number of others.

[I've got no money]

If we're going to list the number of cases and swop CV's - cos I don't like being left out :-...

 

I have been a member of the Birmingham County Court and Sheffield County Court Duty Adviser schemes - and have been the Housing Supervisor for several firms of Solicitors including the largest legal aid practice in the North where I was also a Partner and have managed and supervised the Housing, Benefit and Debt teams in that firm.

 

I was also recognised by the Chambers Guide to the Legal Profession - the one that you get in by recommendation - as a leader in my field

 

I have appeared in so many housing cases I've lost track - I can't claim that I've never lost one because the essence of a good lawyer is that you take cases that no one else will touch and win some of them - in Housing Terms I've probably done over 1000 cases and lost around 5%

 

In public law terms - at one point I was producing 5% of all cases issued in the Crown Office and covered all areas of public law from Homelessness to fine imprisonment to prison law to inquests to children act cases to education etc.

[I've got no money]

I kinda do think that credit law is fairly complex, more so than many others. this is not to say that you can't get to grips with it, but I think it can be more complex because it is a layer of law on top of a number of others.

 

In my limited experience the thing about Consumer Credit isn't that its' particularly complex - its' more that there's a lot of it.

 

I think that you need to adopt a really logical approach to it. Its' the sort of thing where you can devise a checklist against which you compare the agreement.

 

In fact there probably are checklists floating around

[Wigeon]

price copying hohoho

[Wigeon]

If we're going to list the number of cases and swop CV's - cos I don't like being left out :-...

 

I have been a member of the Birmingham County Court and Sheffield County Court Duty Adviser schemes - and have been the Housing Supervisor for several firms of Solicitors including the largest legal aid practice in the North where I was also a Partner and have managed and supervised the Housing, Benefit and Debt teams in that firm.

 

I was also recognised by the Chambers Guide to the Legal Profession - the one that you get in by recommendation - as a leader in my field

 

I have appeared in so many housing cases I've lost track - I can't claim that I've never lost one because the essence of a good lawyer is that you take cases that no one else will touch and win some of them - in Housing Terms I've probably done over 1000 cases and lost around 5%

 

In public law terms - at one point I was producing 5% of all cases issued in the Crown Office and covered all areas of public law from Homelessness to fine imprisonment to prison law to inquests to children act cases to education etc.

 

Ive been out cassed .....................why do you still not practise ??

Have you ever been in court on a CCA or Law of Agency matter??

[I've got no money]

Ive been out cassed .....................why do you still not practise ??

Have you ever been in court on a CCA or Law of Agency matter??

 

Yes - I've run agency cases - I've also led in ADR in high value agency cases - as to why I'm not in practice any more - I became ill and left law - had a massive nervous breakdown...but I'm better now - thanks for your concern.

 

Am I going back to the legal profession I left - not on your life - the Profession I joined was totally different to the one I left...I know that it sounds crass but I actually joined to help people...but the more senior you get the more you have to make money...

 

There is more to life than money

[Kraken1]

I became ill and left law - had a massive nervous breakdown...

 

I think those outside of the profession would be surprised how common this is. Glad you got out and are ok.

 

its' more that there's a lot of it.

I'd accept that. I think that is what I was getting at with the layers. Contract, land law, then a bit of general consumer law, then a bit of european and criminal law. then you get to the consumer credit act. Once you get to there then you need to start going through all those damn regs. Just when you think you are there... add in case law and precedent, and the fact that different law applies depending on the date of the agreement... I think that this is when you reach for the brandy.

[henderson50]

been reading you vast experience of these matters.

 

Can you tell me whether a bank overdraft falls into the CCA\Unenforceable arena.

 

If so what do I nrequest from the bank interms of paperwork.

 

Hope you can assist me

 

Regards