Littlewoods - sent me a letter admitting no cca what now?

[yorkshirenproud]

Please can someone give me advice re Littlewoods, please forgive me this is my first thread and you've guessed it i am a newbie to all of this.

 

I originally had 2 accounts with Littlewoods and got into difficulty paying them, i contacted Littlewoods and they merged two accounts into one debt in 2007, so overall i have got 3 account numbers. I want to reclaim

my charges back so contacted them and received alll statements back for the third account only, they were really difficult to understand but i managed to work out they owed me about £275 but they were all charges for £5 £10 or £12, i wrote to them and asked for these back but they said no due to them being under £12 and the fos would not investigate as they were in the guidlines, so i telephoned them and requested the rest of the statements for before 2007, I have been told that these statements are not available because they are old accounts and due to the first account

(which was an index store card) the shop no longer in existance they do not have the details, they also tried to tell me the first original account did not exist but i have proof i had all these accounts because i was sat

looking at them on my experian credit file while i was on the telephone talking to them and sure enough at that time they were 3 2 or 1 month in arrears all year. So Littlewoods have requested i print it off and send it to them for proof of the accounts. What do i do now the charges prior to 2007 will be the bigger ones but i dont know what to do. I also have a letter from them stating they do not have the cca agreement.

This debt is also with NDR I only owe £160 pound now and i want to carry on paying this as i want this debt finished asap.

Oh yes one more thing they did send statements back to 2003 but prior to 2007 all statements had £0 owing, they also admitted in telephone conversation that they had missed a few charges off

Any help will greatly appreciated also any template letters.

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Hi

To start send an SAR http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca.html

 

You could include the account No's, the fee is £10.00 once you have all the information ask for all charges back.

 

Regards

 

andy

Edited May 9, 2009 by old_andrew2007
added link

[yorkshirenproud]

I have already issued them with a sar and the statements they sent back were to 2003, but there were only charges on the statements back to 2007 all the other statements simply said £0 as if i hadnt purchased any goods from them, but on my credit file it clearly shows that i was in arrears

for 3, 2, and 1 month all the way through the year on the 2 accounts before they merged them into the one account which i am paying off now.

if these accounts were in arrears then prior to 2006 i am sure the charges

would be higher than the £10 and £12 thats on the statements that they say are legal charges, littlewoods even told me they were not allowed to discuss the account numbers as this was against the law and that they didnt acknowledge the two original accounts, thats why i have copied the information to send to them as proof.

i got the account numbers from ndr by acting a little dumb the the poor guy at ndr didnt suspect a thing lol

any advice would be appreciated

[yorkshirenproud]

I just wondered are they breaking the law by not sending me the right information that should be on the statements, the ones they sent me were all in code and it took me ages to sort all the charges out.

 

When i phoned them about the missing information i asked them to send me the cca, the letter admitting they could not supply the cca arrived the next day (i didnt have to pay for it) I have also requested the missing information that should have been on the statements, i was told that the

information was no longer with them and they would have to look through the archives.

once i had requested my charges back i was sent a spreadsheet with all the charges on, it was really easy to understand as it was just a list of charges, why they didnt do this in the first place is beyond me just wanted to make it difficult.

The last 3 charges on the spreadsheet that were for £12 were for one of the accounts that they had merged, when i asked them about the account they admitted there were a few charges missing ( i assume she was looking at them while we spoke) the last charge on the statement was for number 100 but she told me there were also charges on statement 99 and 98 of which they have not supplied. So clearly they are lying. They do have all the information.

I just do not know what letter i should be sending now

I am not going to phone them any more i might loose my temper.

If i put the account in dispute can i still pay the debt to ndr?

All i want is my charges back.

Also i phoned ndr and asked them if they were part of littlewoods, are they classed as a third party? There answere was we are not really part of littlewoods but we are kind of internal, so what the hell does that mean?

please help i am so confused lol

[cerberusalert]

Make a complaint to the information Commissioners Office in respect of the SAR https://www.ico.gov.uk/Global/contact_us.aspx

 

When they merged these accounts did you sign an agreement?

 

Can you scan the CCA they've sent you and post it up here minus any identifying details?

[yorkshirenproud]

I cant remember signing one i think it was done over the phone in 2007

but i have a letter stating from them they do not have a cca.

i sent the sar on 29/04/2009 so will i have to give them more time

[cerberusalert]

With the absence of a CCA they can't enforce payment, no agreement exists.

[yorkshirenproud]

further to your telephone call of 20/04/2009 concerning your request in relation to a copy of your consumer credit agreement,

 

on checking your account details i can confirm i am unable to locate a copy of your cca. however, i should explain that, whilst a court has power under section 127 of the consumer credit act 1974 to decide that we cannot enforce the agreement, it does not mean that the debt does not exist, there is clear evidence of a credit based relationship between littlewoods shop direct group and yourself.

 

if after we have dealt with your request you are still unhappy and you feel the matter has not been resolved to your satisfaction you may be eligible to refer your concerns to the fos but must do so within six months of our final response

 

 

that was the letter received

all i want is my charges back lol

[yorkshirenproud]

what about the charges they have put on the account can i still claim them back even if they are below the fos recommondation

[yorkshirenproud]

I still want to pay the debt it is only £160 i figured if i kept up payments they cant default the account out of spite

[cerberusalert]

It's all smoke and mirrors, yes the debt does exist in the absence of an enforceable agreement but it cannot be pursued through the courts & there's case law to back it up;

 

Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2001] EWCA Civ 633, Sir Andrew Morritt, Vice Chancellor said:

The creditor must…be taken to have made a voluntary disposition, or gift, of the loan monies to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the monies in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid

In the case of Dimond v Lovell [2000] UKHL 27, Lord Hoffmann said:

Parliament intended that if a consumer credit agreement was improperly executed, then subject to the enforcement powers of the court, the debtor should not have to pay.

[cerberusalert]

what about the charges they have put on the account can i still claim them back even if they are below the fos recommondation

Do they come to more than what is outstanding on the account?

I still want to pay the debt it is only £160 i figured if i kept up payments they cant default the account out of spite

Haven't they already defaulted you?

[yorkshirenproud]

so do i give them another few weeks to come up with the missing information as this has all come about because they wouldnt repay me my charges,

[yorkshirenproud]

charges were £277 pound that i put a claim in for, but some of the information was missing on the statements, so i asked them for the rest of the info but they say they dont have it, so i am 4 years worth of information missing

[cerberusalert]

The problem is you can only reclaim charges that go back 6 years & they have to be for amounts more than £12.

[yorkshirenproud]

i have looked on experian and i cant see any default notices, wouldnt even know what one looked like to be honest

[yorkshirenproud]

i think the higher charges are being withheld

[cerberusalert]

You could write and suggest that in the absence of an enforceable CCA & the absence of statements, the fact that they are in breach of the Data Protection Act 1998 and the Money Laundering Act 2002 it would be prudent for them to write off the remaining debt otherwise you will have no other option other than to recover the unfair charges via other means which would inevitably involve the OFT, the FSA and the Information Commissioners Office.

[yorkshirenproud]

i have just had a look at the sar letter that i have sent to littlewoods and i have only put the account number on for the existing account. i automatically assumed that with the two accounts merging into this last account they would give me statements for all three accounts back to 2003

account 1 was opened on 28/07/1999

account 2 was opened on 19/02/2000

both these accounts were merged to become account 3 on

23/05/2007

littlewoods have sent me the statements going back 6 years, but any statements prior to 23/07/2007 have all got 0 balance on them.

I was then sent a spreadsheet just listing charges, these went back to 2007 same as the statements, but there were 3 other charges on the spreadsheet for account 2, this is when i phoned them requesting the details for the original 2 accounts but they denied any accounts existed.

 

I told them they did exist as i am looking at them right now on my experian credit file, (they are all under shop direct finance) the 2 original accounts were in arrears for 3, 2 and 1 month. no statements have arrived for these. She even told me that shop direct were not part of them! conversation then went to why have you put information on my credit file then and why are you still updating it. if accounts are being denied then they should take this information off, she then told me to print off what it said about the 3 accounts on my credit file or copy them and send it into them.

 

I think i am going to write to them again requesting a spread sheet of all charges on all accounts and take it from there.

will let you know how i get on

[yorkshirenproud]

ps i think my charges on these accounts will be far greater than the £160 i owe them now.

 

with them not having a cca does that mean i can claim all charges back because i have technically ( due to no proof of agreement ) not agreed to paying these, i have only agreed to pay back the debt with interest.

[yorkshirenproud]

Is it legal to take print outs or copies off your credit file? (by yourself i mean)

[Nagasis]

Is it legal to take print outs or copies off your credit file? (by yourself i mean)

 

If you mean photocopy your own credit file then that is perfectly legal. It is 'your' credit file afterall

[nish40]

ps i think my charges on these accounts will be far greater than the £160 i owe them now.

 

with them not having a cca does that mean i can claim all charges back because i have technically ( due to no proof of agreement ) not agreed to paying these, i have only agreed to pay back the debt with interest.

Dont know wether this is any help but.........

 

I dealt with the missus Littlewoods account, roughly same as you, no agreement but saying the relationship is there etc etc.

They will not refund charges without a fight, so i said we are going to just ignore all correspondence until they negotiate said charges, and the Account would remain in dispute till that time comes. They passed the account to Lowells, and i wrote the BEMUSED letter, and pointed out no agreement,

Lowells wrote back saying they had BOUGHT the debt, and in light, they will not pursue it any more. I was surprised Lowells gave up so easy.

I have not checked the credit files yet, but It may be worth you looking at the same sort of action!

[cerberusalert]

ps i think my charges on these accounts will be far greater than the £160 i owe them now.

 

with them not having a cca does that mean i can claim all charges back because i have technically ( due to no proof of agreement ) not agreed to paying these, i have only agreed to pay back the debt with interest.

 

Yes you can. Write back to them and state that under the Data Protection Act you are entitled to all the information they hold on you as a person not just a single account.

[yorkshirenproud]

thanks everyone for the good advice i will do a letter today and send it registered tomorrow will let you know how i get on