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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
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ACS:Law copyright file sharing claims, Gallant Macmillan - and probably some others along the way...


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For The person Above...

 

Civil Action

 

A civil action is usually bought following a claim that one side has broken their contract with the other. However, a civil action can also relate to duties imposed by the common law without the need for a contract. For example, a civil action can be brought if a person defames you or trespasses on your land. Unlike criminal proceedings where the State almost always has the role of prosecuting individuals who are alleged to have broken the criminal law, in a civil action one party takes proceedings against another party.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I Along with a few others are Sending LOD back. By the sounds of it unless they have a solid case with you yourself it seems you will get a few more threating letters ( Which i also have the templates for ) Then they seem to leave you alone? So I've read anyway...

 

This i believe is worse than a [problem] though because as i've been reading through here. There are some people REALLY Worried and I for one ain't slept a wink since. I also am cancelling my internet connection as it seem's more trouble than its worth plus i have an Iphone that is pretty good for looking at my forums which is all i do really?

 

Sick Sick Sick People. Hope All involved are ok.

 

Lets stick together on this.

 

Dan

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I know its easier said than done..but i do wish people would stop worrying about this...its nothing more than a clever worded letter designed to frighten the life out of you.

They have no legal authority to any money off anyone whatsoever..only a county court has this power & until they ever take you there (at cost to them) either ignore them or tell them to get stuffed.

I would also consider contacting the police (not 999) about this issue. ;)

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Are you sure they will not take me to court? i have never been to court in my life,i was worried for months on end from the letter davenport lyons sent me aswell, then i heard they stopped pursuing cases which gave me a BIG sigh of relief.And now again just months later im being accused of downloading things i did not download..£500 is alot for me right now but i dont want to go to court,i dont know what to do :(

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Firstly - it will cost them money everytime they take someone to court.

The court would have to take into account all your outgoings like bills,clothes,food,travel costs etc..

Would it be worth their while just to get back £1 per month if anything at all?

They are simply sending these threatograms out in mass in the hope that many will just buckle with fear, not know their rights & pay up.

You would not be on trial if it went to court - there would be no "guilty" or "not guilty" involved - it would all be very informal & sorted out sitting round a desk with officials etc..

What court would they expect you to attend anyway exactly if they are sending these threats out all over the country? - There would be the issue of paying for everyone to get to the court if it was in a certain location! lol

No - the simple fact is, this company have acted very hastily & foolishly & without any thought for how they would handle the aftermath of obtaining all the information & sending all the threats out.

Hopefully the public & the authorities will bring them to justice.

From what i believe so far - things are happening on that front.

In the meantime...PLEASE DO NOT PAY THEM A PENNY & PLEASE DO NOT PANIC - i cant stress that anymore to all you guests.

Report them to as many official authorities as you can think of.

Edited by mr.ton
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EVERYBODY,

 

I received a few weeks ago a letter from them asking me for £500 about a gay porn video I downloaded last year in June. The sad thing is during the date they are quoting I was in a different country, no one was in my house at the time and I got proved of that.

 

I have sent my first letter of denial from the templates mention before in the thread and also a letter to the OFC, SRA and my local MP. The OFC and SRA they are going to investigate and they will let me know, my MP has not even acknowledge this, guess who is going to vote for him in the next elections, lol.

 

I have received today a second letter from them threating me to commence proceedings. I will reply with my second letter of denial.

 

If they take me to court they will lose, but that's apply with everybody else.

 

I would recommend and encourage for everybody to send the letters of denial and the other letters to OFC, SRA and local MP. BUT DO NOT PAY A PENNY TO THEM.

 

It is sort of [problem] they are legitimate but they don't have any legal stand to force you to pay they are only threating letters BUT YOU CAN NOT IGNORE THEM otherwise you will lose in court.

 

Since I send my first lot of letters I was very relief and now and I am not much concern any longer I will send the second one and wait if they want to break the law by contacting me again. That's when I believe it is consider harrasment.

 

STOP WORRYING AND START ACTING!!!!;)

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about to send my first letter,i also emailed complanits to my ISP, all they could tell me was to phone ACS . my isp sky,where not to helpful,i asked them to send me proof of when my details where asked for and when they where sent,also made a complaint to the ico,will let you all know what follows.

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Can anyone perhaps suggest the exact way to report these guys! I am reading conflicting stuff on here and its making me more ill with worry! I seriously cant handle this!

 

Some say reply with a LOD, some say dont reply at all! :confused:

 

Who to complain to specificaly? How? Can a link be posted? exactly what to say? If one of the more advanced users could point all of us lesser mortals in the right (and same) direction then surely it would have a much bigger impact then us all scurryig around like headless chickens?

 

Mr Ton, you say you think things are happening already on this front? do you know any more yet please? If its a specific authority thats interested then if we can all contact them together It would have a masive impact, rather than just a small complaint thats being looked into.

 

 

Who else that has received the letter has had a 2nd or 3rd reply? Who has ignored it and still had a reply? (if your 21 days are up)

 

Geez this is driving me mad!

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I recommend the following:

 

OFT

Trading standards

Financial ombusman

Information commissoner

Your local MP

The police (not 999)

 

Bunjy - with respect, you are only ill with worry coz of the way the letter has been worded.

It has been deliberately designed/worded that way to frighten you & its obviously succeeded.

Some say that you should write back & deny it - i personally think you should just ignore it coz if they think they are getting to you they will carry on.

Others will have differing opinions of course, that why this site is unique.

But like i say & for the reasons stated before, they wont take anyone anywhere near a court.

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Welcome to all new comers who have had letters from ACS Law.

 

When I 1st received my letter back in early May saying that I shared their clients Two Worlds game even though I know I did not.

I did not know what to do then I found these forums where other people had received letters from ACS and others from Davenport Lyons then I knew I was not alone.

 

I sent my 1st LOD to them back in mid May has they give you 21 days to reply back to them then early this month I had my 2nd letter of claim from ACS.

This letter was repeating the same information like before with a change of ACS laws address and it looked like a photocopy document.

This time they give you 14 days to reply back to them.

 

I sent my 2nd LOD to them and heard nothing since.

 

Some say ignore these letters but thats what happend to the women last year or suppose to of happend when she was fined thousands of pounds for not contesting the case by DL won by default.

 

If you did not do it then reply and deny, seek legal advice from the cab or lawyer etc and if your still worried then check the http://www.beingthreatened.yolasite.com/ site where a group of excellent people have come together to help us people out.

 

I noticed some of you's have been getting letters for Scooter tracks, I liked Scooter music in the 90's and if he is like Moby maybe he might speak up...hint hint contact his site etc.

 

Also check out you tube for ACS and listen to the BBC radio show that was on early this month, they interviewed Andrew C on there.

 

So remember seek legal advice by going to a lawyer who might over free 30 min advice, your local CAG, consumer direct and many others.

Reply and deny...do not sign that undertakings form has it could haunt you later if they send you a letter on another product and do not pay a penny.

Edited by thebanana
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Please DO NOT worry, but you WILL need to respond to their letter.

 

I am sorry but i have to disagree totally with due respect...the only place you have to reply to legally is a county court.

Just coz ACS have been to a court to obtain the personal info means absolutely sweet FA - the actual obtaining of any monies fom the individual is down to the court system, not ACS & they can basically be told to get lost or ignored effectivley, until such time you ever physically step foot in a county court building or hear from the CC themselves.

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I am sorry but i have to disagree totally with due respect...the only place you have to reply to legally is a county court.

Just coz ACS have been to a court to obtain the personal info means absolutely sweet FA - the actual obtaining of any monies fom the individual is down to the court system, not ACS & they can basically be told to get lost or ignored effectivley, until such time you ever physically step foot in a county court building or hear from the CC themselves.

 

Wether you reply to the original ACS letter or nor is upto you BUT if you do receive any sort of court proceedings then you MUST reply to these.

 

It has been mentioned that on the few occasion that davenport lyons did begin proceedings it was against people who hadn't replied to any communications, it may be the case that ACS would be wary to start proceedings against people who reply and protest their innocence robustly and also show a knowledge of the law.

 

Andy

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Guest DJMadMax
hmmm thinking back I was on a wireless router but again will be hard to prove .. not sure what to make of it up to now.

 

Do I ignore or wait and see what happens as another letter arrived shortly after the £730 one printed the same with a few ip details and dates but wanting £860

 

So now have 2 debts ....

 

 

Hi all i'm new here... i have seen one of the letters you are on about and look in to it and sorry to say but it is 100% not fake BUT do not pay a this look at the links i have on here telling you why not to pay, OK yes it's 100% but in away it's a skam the IP address is not any good the stand and one can mask there IP to look like your one and no Modem is 100% safe and can be hacked by any one that knows you have to remember that there working to get money off you so there no help i'm trying my best to put a stop to what there doing but need as much help as i can to do this.. even if it meens as meny pep's as i can get locking up there phone line by phoneing them over and over so no calls can come in or out as sad as that sounds there doing this to 1000's with letters any one with a letter plzz email me and i'll get back to them

LINKS

BBC's Watch Dog

BBC - Watchdog: Davenport Lyons - threatening letters

and this

YouTube - setfree68's Channel

 

after seeing the links you will be telling them were to go and what to do when they get there :D

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Wether you reply to the original ACS letter or nor is upto you BUT if you do receive any sort of court proceedings then you MUST reply to these.

 

Absolutely & that is the crucial difference here.

I fully respect the authority of the court system 100%, but not from ACS ;)

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Guest DJMadMax

what you have to think of is

1. if you have downloaded any files your not going to say any ways {thats if you have}

2. even if you have and your IP address was linked to it what can they do that alone is not good

3. {the big one} the link's set for you to download was put there by them THATS ONE HELL OF A NO NO

 

there putting the file on there for you to download free then trying to say your ripping them off by downloading the file they put there

 

thats like speed cams hiden at the back of a phone box so no one can see it and theres a law that stops them from doing that

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Davenports are a respected legal firm. I would reply and ask for proof that would stand up in a UK court, demanding money and threatening court is not very professional so as Mr Ton says report them to the SRA.

 

It is not a [problem] but a fishing trip on behalf of a number of German software houses, Atari have dropped Davenports because of their aggressive letters. On digitalspy (link below thread) it seems they have obtained court orders to force Virgin media to give out addresses, worrying!

 

For those accused of downloading extreme gay porn (i kid you not;)) why not look into , I think, the law on slander. They are accusing you of some pretty hardcore stuff(pun intended) and shouldnt be allowed to get away with it.

Advice & opinions given by spartathisis are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.:)

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Mr Ton,

 

I realise you are a regular here and have a great deal of experience with the typical cases you see on CAG.

 

Unfortunately this kind of thing is coming at individuals from a slightly different angle. The letters are not a demand for payment of debt, but an agreement to settle with the litigant, via their chosen solicitor, currently ACS:Law.

 

Failing to respond is, as you say not necessarily the end of any challenge, as strictly speaking this would start with court documents. However, it is important to note that unlike many debt collections etc, there is no technical obligation to pay in these cases. Due to the legal precedent that would undoubtedly be set, they would also not be heard on the small claims track.

 

As such, both litigants and defendants have a legal obligation under pre-trial protocol to engage in discovery (as far as possible) in order to demonstrate to a judge they have both attempted to reduce costs. Whilst ACS appear very lax in their attempts to follow the guide (by disclosing nothing further on request), the defendant refusing to do so may result in higher costs to the defendant if any case does reach court.

 

The other important consideration is that there have been 4 previous cases settled out of court (or defaulted) by Davenport Lyons. It is highly likely that these people were selected as either having partially admitted guilt, or simply did not respond (and therefore seemed likely to continue to do so).

 

Whilst responding will open you to further correspondance, it will ensure you are complying with pre-trial protocol, and hence have a better basis for arguing costs, and make it less likely to be pursued to court as a possible default judgment by ACS Law.

 

As a first time poster here, I will not repeat the URL again, but note that previous posters have pointed to beingthreatened, which was set up to address these cases and provide somewhat of a basis to respond.

 

Of course, the final choice of how to respond (or not) lies with the individual, but i'd strongly encourage people to do so.

 

Edit: Also, as stated by Mr Ton, please do log complaints with relevant bodies, including (but not limited to):

Your local MP and MEP

The SRA

Local Media

The ICO

Your ISP (please focus this complaint not on the fact they handed over the data, but that they did not defend the Norwich Pharmacal order - see Slyck or beingthreatened for further info)

 

Cheers,

Renegade.

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Guest DJMadMax

the one's that are doing this are called { logistep } there makeing files for you to download and then track you IP Address this is {entrapment} and they say that any one downloading is in the wrong i think they need to rethink how there going to use this info before it ends up with them having the letters resent to them for sum's of money :eek:

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As much as people may wish to think so, this is not a honeytrap, logistep et al simply monitor connections on existing files (followed by verification at the end of the monitoring period). They claim not to upload any data. There is nothing illegal about their data collection under current UK law.

 

Additionally, the ISPs are complying with a legal order to release details. If you ring them, they will state as such. However, they are not contesting these orders in court. This is why such fragile evidence is able to compel an ISP to hand over your details, the ISPs do not see it as in their interests to defend you. Again, the data handover is fully legitimate whilst unchallenged.

 

I'm afraid all of this is simply rehashing old questions though, I'd strongly encourage anyone finding this thread from recent mailings to do a bit of googling and further research around the matter before asking the same questions over and over!

 

Best of luck to all the new recipients. Don't panic, stand strong, you are not alone.

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Unfortunately this kind of thing is coming at individuals from a slightly different angle. The letters are not a demand for payment of debt, but an agreement to settle with the litigant, via their chosen solicitor, currently ACS:Law.

 

There is absolutely no difference between a DCA demanding money off people & this lot demanding money...regardless of what its for.

The underlying principle remains the same in that they have no legal authority to the money - only the county court has this & that is via a process 1st ;)

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