hsbc credit card

[rigante]

have just recieved today yet another letter from hsbc with ref to my cca on my credit card. they have stated that they are unable to provide a signed copy of the original application because the account was opened pre 2003. can anyone pos tell me if this makes it unenforceable and if so how do i proceed. many thanks.

[BelstarBomb]

Hi Rigante,

 

I get the feeling that some numbskull in HSBC has probably been shot as it appears that they have 'disposed' of a hell of a lot of crucial info such as this.

 

Effectively, they have shot themselves in the foot. If they can't find or produce it, who is to say that it ever existed???

 

Your next bet is to send them a letter advising them that as they have not fulfilled your CCA request, the account is now in default.

 

At the same time, send a SAR request to the Data Controller and enclose your £10 fee and also send a S10 request insisting that they stop processing your info and supplying it to other third parties such as DCA's and CRA's.

 

We have gone done exactly the same route with HSBC and have issued a court claim against them to supply the CCA (which we both know they haven't got!) but for us to take it further, we need to get them to admit that in court so that they cannot miraculously muster one up at a later date!

 

Let me know how you get on,

 

BB

[rigante]

hi belstarbomb, many thanks for your reply. i think i may have mucked this one up, at the time i sent a letter off sar my account, purely to get my last 6 yr statements on the 12/10/08 for bank charges with my £10 fee. i then forgot all about it. i also sent off a cca on the 13/10/08 on this account having spoken to the bank who were giving me a hard time over the phone for one missed payment, someone suggested that i cca them. after the period had elapsed for them to reply, i gave them another 2 weeks grace but heard nothing, so i put my in dispute letter in on the 31/11/08 and up untill now it has remained in dispute. i then had a letter back on the 03/04/09 with a signed statement of the account for the account, but as you said i have not recieved a signed copy of an agreement between myself and the bank as according to the bank it was pre 2003. i then realised that i had not heard anything from my sar of the account which is now over 5 months, so i just wrote them a letter saying they were late. according to the bank they are now satisfied that they have met with my cca and have asked me to start paying again, i disagreed as they have added intrest to the account while it was in dispute so i left it there as in dispute due to the intrest.i

[BelstarBomb]

The up shot here is that they have not responded to your SAR.

 

Did you send it special delivery and can prove that it was signed for?

 

If you can, complain to the ICO - you can do this online and is pretty straightforward and then send HSBC a Letter before Action, referring to your original SAR letter and giving them the Royal Mail reference.

 

Once teh 7 days is up, compile your N1 and take them to court to supply the info.

 

If you haven't got the proof, you are going to have to start again from scratch I'm afraid.

 

BB

[rigante]

hi belstarbomb. i have sent everything recorded and have the digital signature through royal mail on line of the date time and person who signed for it. i asume this is for the 6yr bank statements for bank charges. now reguarding the account as there is no agreement keep it in dispute untill they pass it on etc.

[BelstarBomb]

Hi Rigante,

 

What exactly did you ask for in your original SAR request, as the one I use asks them for every last thing that they hold on you.

 

Can you post it up here first of all?

 

Cheers,

 

BB

[rigante]

hi bb. i used the sar template from the site.

just had a letter through the post today, final demand for the whole sum on credit card or goes to debt collector/solicitors. obviously a scare tactic. however isnt it great they still cant produce a signed copy of a cca and have also delayed sending the bank charges to the account due to lack of signature, sent them the usual that they do not need my sig and to send them. now with the threatening letter of final demand, the account is still in dispute, so how can they do that. do you think i should just send letter back to them saying that due to no cca it is unenforcable. anyones help would be much appreciated.

[BelstarBomb]

Hi Rigante,

 

It does make you laugh doesn't it!

 

I can't remember when the deadline for your SAR was due. Is this an automatically generated letter from them or is it in direct response to your SAR?

 

If there is still time on your SAR, do nothing except send them a letter back advising them that you are still awaiting a response to your SAR signed by them on whatever date and that the account is still in dispute until they fulfil their legal obligations. Also remind them of the recent ruling of the OFT against Mackenzie Hall.

 

If it was in direct response to your SAR then the first thing is to complain to the ICO. That is the body that rules over data protection issues. You can do this online. The second thing to do is to send a letter before action to HSBC giving them 7 days to supply the information that is missing - ie the properly executed CCA. For good measure, even if you have already done so, send them an S10 request too. If they haven't got the CCA they can't process your info.

 

I know that this may seem a slow and painful way of going about it but should it go to court, you have to show that you have done everything by the book.

 

If they still don't respond satisfactorily, then your N1 at your local court is thr route to go.

 

BB

[rigante]

hi bb, the s.a.r. was sent to h.s.b.c on the 12/10/08, so well out of the time limit, although they have sent me list of bank charges for my normal account and bank loan last month but seem content to delay the charges to my credit card with the signature nonsense.

the cca was sent out on the 13/10/08 on the credit card.

the credit card was put into dispute on the 31/11/08 some two weeks after they were suppossed to reply.

since then they have sent standard letters wanting the intrest payments each month, culminating in letter to me 11/05/08 final demand for the whole sum plus intrest. the final demand is in response to the account itself.

i put the account in dispute because they couldnt provide a signed cca and as yet still havent.

have just purchased the pack in your above link.

i havent a clue what an s10 is.

Edited May 15, 2009 by rigante

[Durbanwhenwe]

Hi

 

Have been reading your posts with interest as have just had a reply from hsbc credit card re our CCA request letter but as far as I can see it is just photocopies of credit card agreement leaflets, the page that should have our details on is just blank, whilst I am aware that they can leave out the signature I was expecting at least a copy with personal details on cannot see how this proves they have an agreement on file ! Sorry am very new to all this ! Should I now send a letter for subject access requests ?

Would be grateful for any advice.

Will follow your progress with interest.

[rigante]

hi durban. firstly welcome to the site. like yourself i am fairly new to the site and have recieved valuable help from various people, do you have your own thread, if not it would be advisable to open a thread where everyone can see your dilema and put you on the right road, including myself with what little knowledge i pocess of the process. someone from the site team would however be in a better posistion to advise you.

[BelstarBomb]

Hi Rigante,

 

Sorry for the delay in responding. Your next step is to issue an N1 at the court requesting thatthe judge force them to supply the information ie the properly executed credit agreement.

 

You also need to complain to the FOS for them continuing to chase you for the debt when it is in default and also to the ICO for failing to comply with your SAR request.

 

As they have also sent a final demand I'm assuming that they have also threatended legal action? If so, let me know and I will PM a CPR template over to you that should also help you in court.....should it go that far!

 

Catch you later,

 

BB

 

You

[rigante]

hi bb.

was just about to post update of what i have done.

reguarding the s.a.r. on credit card, recieved letter back from hsbc again saying data controller cant supply without a signature...although last month they managed to supply bank loan and normal account without the said signatures. have prepared all my docs and banks replies over the last eight months and done the i.c.o complaint form, which i sent off this morning, will see what happens there first before doing an n1. it may well get the bank moving, very leniant arent i.

 

reguarding the c.c.a. on credit card, final demand letter........have today sent the bank an s.10 letter and a cover letter stating the account is still in dispute and drawing there attention to third party involvement and non compliance of time limit for c.c.a ie: some eight months later still waiting for an executed copy of the c.c.a.......have also informed them that i will complain to the i.c.o. if no reasonable response. have prepared all docs etc for i.c.o. just in case.

 

now it does seem to me that they may be holding out for a signature on the s.a.r as it relates to my bank charges for the credit card, it would also appear after all this time that there is no signed document for c.c.a, hence all the delays. mmmm, regaurding signatures, they can go smell my apple pie.

Edited May 18, 2009 by rigante

[BelstarBomb]

Hi Rigante,

 

Don't wait for the ICO to respond. They have a humungous backlog and they advised me to continue with the court claim as they felt it may well be September/October before they got to my case and I submitted that particular claim at the end of February!

 

They are dicking around with the SAR as they should have responded within 40 days that they couldn't supply you with the info due to a lack of signature. Send them a LBA letter (Letter before action) giving them 7 days to get the information or else and remind them that they have already broken the law.

 

Rigante, if we are talking about one credit card, there is no reason to write to them about the CCA and the SAR. They have defaulted on the CCA, the next step is the SAR in which I would have refer to their default on the CCA and the SAR when you send your LBA. Remember, you go at this step by step crossing off the list the things that they mess up on on the way.

 

I think what may confusing the issue is that there appears to be two parts to your complaing with HSBC - bank charges and unenforcability?

 

BB

[rigante]

hi bb,

thats it burst my happy bubble for the day lol.

yes after all this time it does seem im getting the run round on the s.a.r.

cant send l.b.a. off yet as havent recieved my pack as yet from the site, but will do when arrives.

yes we are talking about the same card for both s.a.r. and c.c.a.

i was led to believe that i had to treat them both as seperate issues hence why i go on about them both, i thought one was for signed executed documents for me and bank and the other was for bank charges.

[BelstarBomb]

Sorry mate,

 

Didn't mean to bring you down! I suppose you are right to keep them both separately looking back at it - I've only ever done CCA stuff, not bank charges. If I had done both maybe I would have had a better understanding of where you were coming from!

 

Please make allowances for my pregnancy hormones and let me know in future which one(s) you are going on about!

 

I will shortly PM you a template LBA that you can send out in the meantime.

 

SMILEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE:D

 

BB

[rigante]

hi ya bb,

was only joking about my bubble lol got another 50 going on above my head. certainly gets the old grey matter going to be sure, i think i would of long given up if it wasnt for the support you and others have shown, but it does give you that up feeling when you know your striking back for the common people. wow pregnant as well, many congrats wooooo. thinking about it i should really of made seperate threads then there wouldnt of been so much confusion, yikes.

[BelstarBomb]

I know Rigante,

 

There had been times last year I sat down in tears thinking 'what beast had I unleashed' and then the more you get into, you realise what a mug you have been over the last 20 years or so.

 

If it hadn't been for the support here and also at Consumer Credit Support I dread to think what state I would be in.

 

Glad to here that you have enough bubbles floating above to keep you going. Hope my PM is of use?

 

BB

[rigante]

hi bb,

have got your pm, will check it out later on when get time.

every step is a step closer to regaining control and not being taken for ignorant mugs, i can remember from when i first started, sheer panic, but being here and getting the support calms you down and shows light at the end of a long tunnel and you get to dish it back as well bliss

[rigante]

hi bb,

eee would you credit it, told you i had recieved a final demand letter from the bank regarding they want payment of all monies on the card. wrote back to them, recorded delivery of course....well recieved letter this morning saying they hadnt heard from me and now passing on to maybe dca or solicitors etc. just tracked the mail to see when it arrived at hsbc and they have sent it back to post office so makes look like i never replied, typical........time to send my lba and get the gloves off....heres hoping they pass it on to someone else, surely the idiots must know its in dispute as they havent provided the info from the s.a.r. and cant pass it on....more ammo, shoot yaselfs in foot.

[BelstarBomb]

Hi Rigante,

 

Even though sometimes I haven't been able to afford the £4.95, I always, always send everything Guaranteed by 1pm for that very reason.

 

I doubt that they have deliberately returned it but at least you know that with guaranteed, you know exactly where it is.

 

Until you nail them to the ground they will keep on pushing.

 

Just think of the breadcrumbs leading the mouse to the trap....................

 

BB

[rigante]

hi bb,

yeah probs right but doesnt look good on them as there letter was dated same day they returned mine....keep it coming. just written my lba, off to post office now to send, see if this comes back or will they reply within the 7 days, ohhhh the suspense

[rigante]

hi bb.

just to keep you all updated, well still no sign of letters arriving at hsbc, ie:- the response to final demand and s10 letter also the lba.

typical, royal mail says you have to leave 15 days before can make a complaint for them not arriving.

just had a letter from hsbc today, they now saying i have 7 days before the account goes to d.c.a. although now they say they are prepared to accept a reasonable final offer on the account.

now then, i also sent letter off to the i.c.o. and they are looking into it, that is with regards to the s.a.r. sent in oct of last year.

do you think it would be better to await the i.c.o. answer, as im sure there will be no c.c.a. and do the bank charges on the account if ever get the statements. or do you think i should just settle with hsbc.

not worried about the d.c.a. as the account has been in dispute since last nov so they cant pass to third party, but they do say they will put default with credit agency.

[rigante]

well the d.c.a. have now put on hold, until, the outcome of the i.c.o. result.

have recieved a reply from the i.c.o. saying they have written as a matter of priority to hsbc as they have not complied fully with the s.a.r. ie:- the sixth principle....personal data shall be processed in accordance with the rights of data subjects under the act. they also say this is now closed.

have just recieved letter from hsbc. they have sent statements for last 6 years, so i am now in reciept of terms and conditions along with statements.

now when the account went into dispute, i made a voluntary payment to keep inside the card limit, but hsbc have continued to add intrest each month putting the card over the limit....but in the letter they have sent they have asked me to accept £390.56 without predjudice as a gesture of goodwill, mmmm half of the intrest added whilst in dispute, nice of them, but they say that im not to make any claims or take legal action on this matter now or in the future.

is there anyone out there who could possibly advise me, i dont think they have still fully complied with the s.a.r. ie:- no c.c.a agreement.

also, does anyone know what i could claim back in the way of bank charges on this account.

thanks for viewing, any help is much appreciated.

Edited August 4, 2009 by rigante

[rigante]

hi peeps. as i said in my last post, the i.c.o. have written to me and closed the case, they have also written to hsbc and requested they fulfill the s.a.r.

hsbc have sent terms and conditions and bank statements but that is all, also they have offered me a goodwill payment of £390.00 a 100% reduction in the charges accumalated since the account went into dispute.

today recieved letter from cap quest that they have been instructed to carry on with action against me from hsbc.

also recied another letter today from hsbc saying they have handed the debt to metropolitan collection services. also they have listed my details to default with experian...equifax and callcredit.

can anyone possably advise me.

the account has been in dispute since nov last year. even though i have s.a.r them no cca has been made available to me, indeed from the first post i put up, hsbc stated that the account was pre 2003 and had been lost.

surely in the absense of cca and the account in dispute, i thought they couldnt add intrest to the account or pass to third parties. am i wrong in my assumption. looking forward to hearing from someone.