Fine from bailiffs for unkown DVLA offence.

[Runk]

Good afternoon all.

 

I got in from work for lunch today and found a threatening letter from a bailiff (Philips Collection Services Ltd).

 

It states that they have been instructed to collect an £80 fine for an offence dated December 1st 2005. If I dont pay immediately the case wil be passed to the enforcement dept for further recovery procedures, and by paying emmediately I will also prevent myself incurring additional costs and a county court judgement and my vehicle may also be wheelclamped.

 

Now I had a little spat with the DVLA a while ago when I sorned my car and the DVLA lost the sorn forms and threatened to fine me. They sent me a letter telling me it was my legal requirement to ensure that thier databases were up to date and as I had not fulfilled my legal requirement I was liable for the fine.

I sent a letter back stating that I absolutley disputed thier claim and I would like the case to be heard in court. To date I have heard nothing since with regard to this matter.

At the time I asked for advice on that issue here on this forum, the thread can be found here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dvla/98371-dvla-sorn.html#post915608

And I assumed that it was this.

 

But then I thought, hold on, that wasnt as far back as 2005... so I checked the dates on the above thread and sure enough that was 2007.

 

So I have no idea whatsoever this DVLA fine relating to an offence in 2005 is? Ive tried to ring the bailiff and after about 15 minutes of trying and getting an engaged tone, I managed to get through.

To a recorded message telling me I was number 38 in the queue...

After 45 minutes on hold I was still only number 21, so I gave up and hung up.

There is also a DVLA ref number on the letter but I cant find any number for the DVLA for anyone who is willing to speak to me.

 

I no longer own the car having sold it a while ago, but this clearly does not relate to whoever currently now owns the car.

 

I am concerned about this, what the alledged 'offence' from 2005 is, if the Bailiffs have any rights to clamp my current vehicle on my driveway or the highway, and most of all exactly what I can or should do next.

 

I have phoned two seperate solicitors prior to writing this, and both told me that the best advice they could give me was to pay the £80 fine because if I got a solicitor to act for me, costs would start at £140 per hour, so economicly, the best thing I could do was simply pay up.

 

Im confused, annoyed and slightly worried...

Many thanks in advance from anyone who can give me some advice.

[patdavies]

Stop trying to telephone them.

 

Write to them denying any liability and demand that they produce evidence of any debt. Use a signed for postal delivery.

[Britainsworstdriver]

I am no expert on this at all, but is it possible this is a [problem]? It wasn't a premium rate number you rang was it? I may be miles off, just trying to help. I got stung by one of these a while back.

[Runk]

Ive managed to contact them and its not a [problem].

 

Ive managed to piece the bits together from the helpful person I spoke to on the phone at the dvla fines office.

 

It seems my tax ran out on my car in November 2005 and I didnt tax it untill Jan 2006. So it was a month untaxed and not sorned.

 

My wife died a few months prior so I wasnt paying attention to some things and apparantly renewed my car tax a month late.

I dont actually have any recollection of doing this and I dont have any recollection of the letters that ive been told today were sent to me which I apparantly ignored. But then that whole period is a bit hazy in my memory to be honest and looking back I did at one point end up with a heap of unopened letters and bills. I couldnt argue honestly and say there was no dvla letters, the truth is I just have no recollection of a period of around 6 months.

 

So it seems that I have to put my hands up to committing the henious crime 4 years ago of renewing my tax a month late when I wasnt in a particulaly sound state of mind, and pay the fine to the nice people at the dvla.

I have enough baggage from that period without dragging it up again. So many many thankyous for the replies, but I think the best option is just to pay it and make it go away.

 

Be safe all, and if you cant be safe, be sensible

Edited March 20, 2009 by Runk

[Britainsworstdriver]

Firstly, I am sorry about your loss albeit sometime ago my thoughts are with you.

 

I am again no expert. Perhaps you may be able to get something done on compasionate grounds. My gut feeling is it would be easier on you to just pay the fine and end that era so to speak, in the nicest possible intention.

 

Good luck. I hope time will heal your loss a little.

[Runk]

My gut feeling is it would be easier on you to just pay the fine and end that era so to speak, in the nicest possible intention.

 

Good luck. I hope time will heal your loss a little.

This is also my line of thinking.

 

Thankyou for the thoughts, your right time does make things different.

Life is good now. Better than I could ever have imagined back then

 

(Apart from the nice DVLA extracting thier pound of flesh...)

[Conniff]

Stop calling them 'bailiffs'. If this hasn't been to court then they are not bailiffs but debt collectors and they have no power to clamp.

[RichardM]

I am again no expert. Perhaps you may be able to get something done on compasionate grounds. My gut feeling is it would be easier on you to just pay the fine and end that era so to speak, in the nicest possible intention.

 

 

The OP had already told the DVLA in writing that they wished to contest the penalty in court. As such, they have already disputed that the penalty is owing.

 

The DVLA had no right to pass this on the debt collection agency in the first place. Therefore, the answer is not to pay up and roll over, but to simply write to the DCA and tell them in no uncertain terms that the debt is in dispute. At that point, the DCA has no option but to return the file to the DVLA.

 

If the DVLA do attempt to try and collect again, there are numerous letters on this forum which can be used to warn them off. After all, the penalties were intended not to target innocent people but persistent offenders and criminals. Those were the head of the DVLA's own words, so use it against them. ASimply ask them if they consider you to be a persistent offender or a criminal, and they normally go away with their tails between their legs.

Edited March 22, 2009 by RichardM
First sentance removed.

[Britainsworstdriver]

It is unpleasant comments like yours that prevent very nice people like me from answering any points on a forum. My advice was NOT extremely poor at all. It was good advice and I believe the OP will probably follow that simply to close that chapter in his life.

 

This is not about smart alec letters, appeals processes. It is about a grieving man who doesn't want reminding of that sad part of his life.

[RichardM]

I'm not going to apologise for giving the OP practical advice which he came on here seeking. I'm sure that the OP came on here, not looking for sympathy, but a practical way of getting a debt collection agency (not a bailiff as he first believed) to back off and leave him alone and looking for reassurance as to his rights in respect of can they clamp his car etc. Yes, your way achieves the aim, but leaves him £80 poorer for no reason at all. Personally, I would prefer to write a couple of letters and keep the £80 myself.

 

The OP came on here for advice about a situation that he believed had gone away four years ago. I, at least, have given him an option which deals with the situation and is in line with the advice given on practically every other thread on this forum. Going on about appealing on compasionate grounds gives a good indication that you don't have much idea of how the DVLA works. Computers do not have compassion. They generate letters by the tonne, which go out to unsuspecting "victims" like the OP who have done nothing wrong at all.

 

Why should the OP cough up to a faceless and totally inefficient Government department. Most who come onto this board get far more satisfaction and benefit out of sticking up for themselves. Believe me, it's far more theraputic when that letter drops through the door which says,

 

OK, you win, we give up.....

[Britainsworstdriver]

I had a bet with a colleague that you wouldn't apolgise. I won.

 

The OP did do something wrong. he didn't tax his car for a month. His car wasn't declared SORN and thus he is liable for the fine which is quite correct and valid. It has nothing to do with the 'totally inefficient' government department at all.

 

In this case the OP didn't remember for a very valid reason - he had just lost his beloved wife. The DVLA don't yet have a computer which can read letters but they do have human beings that can and indeed do. I think there is a reasonable chance they may waive this in this particular case, although there are no grounds to do so other than common decency. It would be reasonable to provide with a copy of the DC to confirm that this is genuine. I suspect the OP doesn't wish to drag all that up and £80 to end it which is a) a correct and due fine and b) prevents further worry and stress is great advice.

 

How do you come to these conclusions that I know nothing about how the DVLA works? How do you know I don't work there myself? How do you know anything about me? You don't. So get down of your high horse, stop trying to offend me. My skin is a lot thicker than you might imagine.

 

I am not saying you are incorrect, although I totally disagree with your opinions. I am however not a rude person and you clearly are. Funny thing forums. People get tempted to say things in cyber world that they wouldn't dare say face to face with a stranger.

 

Shame this. My only intention here was to offer the sort of advice the OP needed and I believe accepted too. I have no problem with anyone differing in opinion, but why do you have to do it in such a rude and confrontational way? 'Going on about appealing on compasionate grounds gives a good indication that you don't have much idea of how the DVLA works' I didn't 'go on about' I simply suggested it was a possibility and, quite a plausible one too. Not everyone has the same viewpoint and as I have found many times, the right aproach can make all the difference.

 

I won't be responding again in this thread as I feel there is nothing constructive out of this for the OP. I am truly disgusted at your appalling attitude.

 

I will apologise, to the OP for what must appear very inconsiderate. I think he knows my advice and intentions were sincere. I am not interested in scoring points over the system. I was offering a genuine person genuine advice. That is what i thought the forum stood for. I trust others share my viewpoint.

[crem]

The OP did do something wrong. he didn't tax his car for a month. His car wasn't declared SORN and thus he is liable for the fine which is quite correct and valid. It has nothing to do with the 'totally inefficient' government department at all.

 

The OP didn't do anything "wrong" within the purpose that SORN was originally introduced for (apart from being another Labour stealth tax).

 

The stated aim of the SORN system was to catch criminal and persistant offenders who habitually failed to pay their road tax.

 

The OP does not fall into this category by any means and therefore should not be subject to a SORN fine.

[odds]

Extremely poor advice.

 

The OP had already told the DVLA in writing that they wished to contest the penalty in court. As such, they have already disputed that the penalty is owing.

 

I would suggest that you read the thread again, slowly, before giving advice. The dispute you refer to related to a SORN in 2007, not the 'fine' in question. The orginal poster has said that he didn't tax his car for a month due to bereavement in 2005, this is what the post is refering to.

 

The DVLA had no right to pass this on the debt collection agency in the first place. Therefore, the answer is not to pay up and roll over, but to simply write to the DCA and tell them in no uncertain terms that the debt is in dispute.

 

Why have they no right ? Again you are refering to the wrong offence. The offence IS NOT in dispute. The one in 2007 is.

 

After all, the penalties were intended not to target innocent people but persistent offenders and criminals. Those were the head of the DVLA's own words, so use it against them. Simply ask them if they consider you to be a persistent offender or a criminal, and they normally go away with their tails between their legs.

What people say and what people do/mean are different things altogether, especially when it involves government departments.

 

To be honest I think Britainsworstdriver understood the situation far better than yourself and offered good advice in the circumstances. If he wished he could drag everything back up and appeal and I'm sure he might get the fine reversed. That is entirely his choice.

[Runk]

Thankou all for your advice.

 

Just to clarify, as already pointed out there are to seperate issues that seem to have got mixed up.

 

There was in issue in 2007 in which I sorned my car and the dvla apparantly lost the forms and tried to fine me. That was the subject of the original post and what I thought this most recent letter was referring to when I first opened it.

This fine is in dispute although I have not heard anything of it since I disputed it in 2007. If an when it ever surfaces again I will absolutely still contest it and will take the advice of Richard M.

Thankyou for the advice on that one

 

The 'offence' which is the subject of this letter which I at first thought was the 2007 issue turns out to be from December 2005 when I did allow my tax to lapse for a month. I dont recall it, and I dont recall any letters from the time, but the records show no tax for December 2005 so being realistic I have to put my hands up to it and accept the fact that the original letters and renewal forms got lost or binned or something during a time when I wasnt coping too well with things.

As such, although there may be grounds to dispute it and make it go away, it is a chapter of my life Id rather not drag into some dispute over something that the bottom line is, I did actually do.

So now I managed to clear up the confusion over what the fine was the easiest (and honest) thing to do is pay it.

Thankyou to Britiansworstdriver for your advice and your compasion

 

For the record, life is good now and I am not the same person I was in that dark time. I dont have any issues with talking about it or anything these days, Id just rather not have to drag that period up into an arguement over something if I dont have to. Thankyou to everyone who expressed sympathy for that time though

 

Lastly, I was calling them Bailiffs because thats what they are.

The company is Philips Specialist Bailiff services.

I concede they are acting in the role of a debt recovery agent, and in that capacity they only have the legal rights of a debt recovery agent and any advice given to me on this issue and the legal rights they have refers to them in the debt recovery role.

But I referred to then in name as Bailiffs as the bergundy letterhead states Philips Specialist Bailiff.

 

Thankyou Odds for acting as referee

 

No more argueing now and lets keep this forum for the helpful advice from kind, helpful and knowledgable folk that you all are

 

Be safe all, and if you cant be safe, be sensible