ABBEY/MBNA Agreement is it enforcable?

[LG29]

 

 

Edited March 19, 2009 by LG29
attachment not clear

[brindles]

hi,

in my opinion, no.

 

I am not an expert but it says application form and just under that it says if you need help filling in this application form.

 

So, i quess, its an application form.

 

please see this,

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162851-consumer-credit-agreements-guide.html

 

originaly posted by steven 4067

 

hope this helps:)

 

originaly posted by

[clemma]

I have to disagree brindles. It is one of those application forms which include all the prescribed terms.......

 

The document will be front and back therefore your signature appears with four corners of the prescribed terms.

 

I would say enforceable - sorry to be the bearer of bad news

[brindles]

Hi,

thanks again clemma for stepping in.

 

I will stop giving my opinion on agreements and stick to advising on sending SAR and CCA requests.

 

I thought the above showed two seperate documents(sorry).

just trying to do my bit for those with 0 replies..

 

thank you:)

[clemma]

Hi,

thanks again clemma for stepping in.

 

I will stop giving my opinion on agreements and stick to advising on sending SAR and CCA requests.

 

I thought the above showed two seperate documents(sorry).

just trying to do my bit for those with 0 replies..

 

thank you:)

 

Why stop giving advice? I have made mistakes before, but learnt from them!!! The only reason I know it to be one document is because it doubles up as the envelope to send it back in!

 

However, it looks like a microfiche copy, so they may not have the original......that could only be tested in court though.

[brindles]

hi,

no I wont stop giving advice/guidance, dont mind learning from my mistakes,I dont want others to suffer for my mistakes.

 

just trying to be a good member and contribute.

 

good luck:)

[guzzleguts]

Hi clemma

 

I think that peice of paper purporting to be an application form is the same as a virgin mailer application form, i dont beleive the terms were on the original because that would mean when you send the application back to them the prescribed terms would be on the outside of the envelope, i know MBNA are not the sharpest tools in the rack but i dont think even they would put terms on the outside so everyone new there would be personal information inside.

 

I have one myself and i believe the terms have been pasted on, its unenforceable IMO.

 

GG

Edited March 27, 2009 by guzzleguts

[clemma]

Oh, that's a different story then Is it worth the OP sending the following letter then:

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

RE: Agreement/Account number

 

Thank you for your response to my letter dated xxxxxx 2009, making a formal request for a true copy of the original credit agreement for the above account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

 

The documents you supplied me appear to be no more than an application form, and as such are not a satisfactory response to my request. Nowhere on the front of the document is there any reference to the prescribed terms and conditions that such an agreement must contain. I must assume that these are unconnected documents and once again inadequate to satisfy your obligations.

 

As you are aware you are obliged to provide me with a true copy of my agreement as defined under Section 189 of the CCA 1974. and I consider that you have failed to comply with my request for these documents

 

 

Under the terms of the above Act, a creditor has 12 working days to provide the requested documents. This deadline has now passed and I have not received the requested documents from you.

 

As I am sure you are aware, an agreement that does not contain all of the prescribed terms, and/or is not signed by the debtor, is completely unenforceable & I therefore consider that this account is in dispute with immediate effect & it follows that all payments to this account are suspended forthwith.

 

I draw your attention to the legal requirement that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:

You must not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

You must not add any further interest or charges to this account.

You must not pass this account to any third party.

You must not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.

You must not issue a default notice on this account

I hereby give you notice that if you proceed with any of the above actions, I will file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

Yours faithfully

[guzzleguts]

Hi clemma, didnt mean to butt in on this thread its only because i have one myself.

 

I dont think the dispute letter will work, as far as they are concerned the prescribed terms are there, and they have complied with the cca request as far as section 77-78 is concerned.

 

I have not sent them a letter as they have left me alone with this account, and as i have 2 other court cases going on i have not rocked the boat.

 

Now its up to LG29, personally i would send a letter outlining the fact that their effort of an application form come agreement with prescribed terms on the outside of an envelope, is a joke, and if that is the document they are going to enforce for this alleged debt. If they do i think the INFORMATION COMMISSIONER'S OFFICE may like to know about these application form's.

 

As soon as i have time il be sending something along that line to them( or if they start to hassle me, then it will be earlier)

 

Thanks GG

[LG29]

Thanks everyone for your replies, when I firstsaw this I thought it was unenforcable, but then saw the back, if it is the back of it,there is nothing about default charges, but they would be inT&C,which I havent seen i did write back to them saying that what they sent wasnt sufficent, waiting for their reply.

am I right in thinking that they need to have the original signed agreement, if this goes to court, and if they produced a copy of the agreement,it would be thrown out.

Thanks everyone for all your advice.

[underdog13]

this post by PT on the thread All MBNA Caggers Fight Against MBNA's underhand tactics (page 11 post 210), may be relevant to your case;

let me expand slightly

 

The law as we all know requires a "A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement"

 

So on the MBNA agreement it says £1000, £3000 & £5000 yes?

 

and under each amount of credit it says the various rates , Yes?

 

So what if your credit limit isnt there?

 

What if your credit limit was £10,000? £15,000 ???

 

there is nothing within the agreement to qualify the rate of interest if your credit limit isnt set out on the agreement? with me so far?

 

So MBNA may try and argue that the full details are found in a set of terms and conditions somewhere which we dont know about blah blah blah

 

Well that angle fails at the first hurdle as the Agreement Regulations , at Reg 2(4) requires all this info to be set out as a whole and not interspersed with other info so it cannot be set out elsewhere

 

so if your credit limit was different to that stated on your agreement KERCHING:wink:

 

does that help???????????????

[underdog13]

In addition, MBNA securitised a lot of their credit cards. If this is the case with your card, it would mean that MBNA do not have the right to take you to court or to sell the account to a DCA, as they are no longer the owners of the debt.

[LG29]

Thanks underdog13,is there anyway I can find out if they have securitised this card.

[underdog13]

Thanks underdog13,is there anyway I can find out if they have securitised this card.

 

Still trying to find out the best way to do this. Will post up as soon as I have something definate:)