Help - Excel Parking Crown Point Leeds

[Barsteward]

Parking is free on this car park.

So no loss of revenue?

[lamma]

did you write back to Excel ?

how can they assert that you were the driver ?

 

I see they are staying well under the 300 quid that got them into hot water last time.

 

you need to find the landowner. it is highly likely that Excel are in no position to offer the consideration of parking in the first place as the landowner would have to crazy to give them sufficient proprietary rights.

Excels 'contract with the landowner' may not even be with the landowner.

 

then there are privity issues.

 

also Excel's letters probably unlawful so statements can be made about them. need to see the Excel letters though - suitably washed of course.

plus potentially more......

 

pictures of the signs please.

 

these are real court papers, failure to deal with them means you lose.

[GuidoT]

Initially, return the acknowledgement of service, it is a tear off part on the response pack.

 

I would say that you intend to defend the entire claim and you do not intend to contest the courts jurisdiction.

 

You then have 28 days from service to file a defence, service is taken a 5 days after the issue date.

 

You then have some time to read around the parking forums such that you can draft a defence and post that up here so that it can be considered.

 

Some will say that you should not post up too much detail here, but if you have nothing to hide, then the benefits far outweigh any disadvantages.

 

As far as I know there is no template defence on this forum, I think because so few PPCs actually commence legal proceedings.

[GuidoT]

So I should just ignore this again? I mean it has me worried, I dont fancy turning up in court :S

 

Definitely not, you are a long way from trial so do not be concerned for now about appearing in court. See my post above.

[RichardM]

Unfortunately, you cannot ignore this because it is now a court case. You need to advice the court that you intend to defend it. That will give you more time to put together a defence, which I'm sure that member son this board more knowledgable than myself will happily help you with.

 

Several things come to mind.

 

Nowhere on the sign does it say that by parking you are entereing into a contract, so you can legitimately state that you were not aware that you were entering into an alleged contract.

 

Even if they get past that hurdle, you can argue that a contract connot exist, because in order for a contract to exist you need

an offer of services

an acceptance of services

consideration for service

 

Consideration is the requirement of reciprocal obligations on the parties to a contract. Both parties must receive valuable consideration for performance of their side of the contract. In this case, the provider did not receive consideration, since the service was provided free. The contract arguement falls down here as well.

 

The particulars of claim state that you were the registered keeper/driver of the vehicle. They are trying to serve two different people at once. They cannot service against the registered keeper, because only the driver could enter into the contract, and they have to prove that you were the driver on the day in question to the satisfaction of the court.

 

I'm sure there are even more holes in their case as well but I hope that it does get to court, because with that case, Excel are going to get yet another bloody nose.

[leo0787sx]

*edited*

Edited March 19, 2010 by leo0787sx

[GuidoT]

I knew very little about the law, but know enough now to stand up to vultures like these, having been on here for a while.

 

You have time to think if you want to pay to avoid the hassle, so return the acknowledgement.

 

Do not let the thought of appearing in court put you off, it is very unlikely to ever get this far. You can settle the matter at any time prior to then if you decide. In any event I would be surprised if the mater was scheduled for trial this year.

[RichardM]

That's what Excel are relying on.

 

They have just as little knowledge of the law from experience. In fact they have far more knowledge of how to break it than they have of complying with it.

 

There is no stigma attached in going to court if you are defending what you are rightfully entitled to. What you have is the classic case of the man who breaks the law and then takes the VICTIM to court, because that's what you are, the victim of a [problem] and unless people like you fight back, more and more get scammed the same way.

 

Excel have been slammed by judges before in similar cases. I'm betting that as soon as you file a reasonable defence they will slink off into the hole that they came out of and will leave you alone.

[Barsteward]

I just feel like paying it, I mean I'm not good at this sort of thing, I know little about the laws, I've never been to court before in my life.

And was the paperwork you recieved previously all accurate and compliant with rules,regs, Laws and CoPs??

If Excel are true to form the answer would be a catagoric NO, so woud they take a chance f further embarrassment?? Doubt it.

[Steve__M]

"Court" will be a small claims court. 3 people in a room having a chat (in the unlikely event that Excel turn up that is). You have to be a bit deferential to one of them and avoid being rude to the other.

 

Write to them and ask them for copies of the terms and conditions of the contract for their management of the carpark that allows them to enforce this right, and copies of the relevant contract. Tell them that if they don't respond, you will apply for an order to disclose or to have the claim struck out, and will ask that they pay your costs.

 

Any chance of a photo of the sign (sorry if there is one there - sometimes my firewall invisibly blocks images on this site).

 

So defence would be???

 

1. I was parked in the carpark for the purpose of shopping at the shops served by the carpark.

2. Purported contract does not indicate any fee for staying beyond 3 hour limit. The carpark is a free car park, therefore no loss was suffered.

3. Purported contract cannot exist: carpark is a free carpark, therefore claimant received no consideration. [both parties to a contract need to receive some benefit, termed "consideration", to form a contract]

4. The claimants are not the landowners and have not demonstrated they have third party rights to enforce a contract of this nature.

4. If the stated fee were applicable to the circumstance, it is a penalty, being larger than a reasonable pre-estimate of the cost of any contract breach.

 

Personally, I would not imply I was not the driver as you may end up looking shifty!

[leo0787sx]

*edited*

Edited March 19, 2010 by leo0787sx

[RichardM]

Leo.

 

This leaflet from Trading Standards may help you find your way slightly with regard to the contracts issue. Specifically, you need to read the part about how a contract is made since it directly affects what Excel are claiming for.

 

Trading Standards — Shropshire Council

[leo0787sx]

*edited*

Edited March 19, 2010 by leo0787sx

[RichardM]

You got it.

 

No handing over of cash = no contract formed = impossible to breach a contract.

 

And that's only a small part of the defence available to you, but as it's trading standards own advice, it will hold a fair amount of weight in court if it ever gets that far.

[GuidoT]

Ok so I return the slip stating I am defending my case.

 

Should I make a counter claim? I.e for the court costs or anything?

 

Should I get myself a solicitor?

 

Yes say you are defending the matter.

 

I cannot see how you have a counterclaim.

 

No to a solicitor.

[leo0787sx]

*edited*

Edited March 19, 2010 by leo0787sx

[GuidoT]

You will be allocated to the small claims track, so it is unlikely you will recover costs, although you may be entitled to some limited expenses. In any event such costs are not a counterclaim, but the costs of the action.

 

I reiterate no to counterclaim.

[Al27]

This may not even get to court. Possibility of judge striking it out or it been deferred for mediation.

 

Someone will help you off the board. Let us know when somehow has messaged you to help.

[wheelergeezer]

Deleted By Wg

Edited July 17, 2009 by wheelergeezer

[lamma]

Now you understand contract basis I refer you again to proprietary rights (or the lack thereof). Without those Excel cannot offer a contract in the first place making a contract claim a big mistake on their part.

[the_freedom_trail]

I just feel like paying it, I mean I'm not good at this sort of thing, I know little about the laws, I've never been to court before in my life.

 

County Court is not like a Crown Court like you see on tele - you will not be surrounded by lawyers in wigs. Don't be affraid - relish the opportunity to put your case across and win - all of us are 1000% behind you and in support of you. These parking firms get away with much too much already. You have several good arguments that you can make to hit them with another loss and leave egg on their face.

 

No one can be blamed for trying and failing but you can be blamed for failing to try. County Court is not a scarry process at all. Do not pay this - fight it all the way!

 

Do not ignore this though as others have said - if you do you could end up with a CCJ which would be a great shame given the ease of defending the claim.

 

This is your time to shine and beat these guys at their own game - please don't waste it!

 

TFT

[the_freedom_trail]

You need to chill, relax and stop worrying. THEY are the villain, not you.

 

Very very true

 

TFT

[Steve__M]

It's not quite true that you have to pay for something to create a contract. You can create a contract by *agreeing* to pay for something (or provide some other service to the other party). And agreement can be construed from your actions.

 

As the signs do not indicate that there is a charge for overstaying though, you have not in this case *agreed* to pay anything. So there cannot be a contract.

[leo0787sx]

*edited*

Edited March 19, 2010 by leo0787sx

[lonerider]

Mate

 

Some positives for you to read where excel always looses.

 

 

 

 

 

""Hi FTC

 

I have just got back from court and I owe you big time as I won against Excel Parking - they did turn up and had sent volumes through as defence but I won on unfair contract terms and Excel not being able to demonstate any kind of loss as they were acting for local shops therefore there was no loss to them directly.

 

Thanks so much - I owe you."

 

Excel Parking finally take someone to court over an unpaid 'parking ticket'..and LOSE

I have posted previously about receiving a parking ticket from Excel Parking and simply not paying because it is not enforceable.

 

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...&postcount=365

 

Excel Parking finally took the organiser of an action group - set up to protest about Excel - to county court to try and enforce one of their 'parking tickets' (and maybe make an example of them). Please follow the link to find out how they get on.

 

http://www.chad.co.uk/news/Judge-say...nes.3903396.jp

 

'But the far more important issue was that the judge found there was no justification for the £100 fine. He said it was a penalty charge and therefore unenforceable by the court.'

 

'The Judge found Excel had conned locals into believing they had parked illegally –– when that simply was not true.'

 

Judge says Excel parking fines illegal

Judge says Excel parking fines illegal - Mansfield Chad

 

 

Judge quashes £300 parking fine...because it set out to ‘frighten and intimidate’ driver

Judge quashes £300 parking fine...because it set out to ‘frighten and intimidate’ driver| News | This is London

 

Mate this setup is void. Dont worry take these letter here showing what a joke this is. Head up high feel proud. They are ripping you off.