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    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Log Book Questions & Answers


Guest Log Book Loans Employee
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Guest Log Book Loans Employee

I am happy to answer genuine questions, and vexatious or silly comments will be ignored, and you will be talking/typing to yourself

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Hi, and welcome to CAG.

 

It is always good to have views from people within companies, and it may also help you to understand where our members are coming from as well. Hopefully members will be courteous and accept that you are here to answer genuine questions.

 

Obviously, by the very nature of the topic some strong opinions may be forthcoming. However should any posts breach site rules they will be dealt with accordingly, and we ask that they be reported to the Site Team.

 

Site Admin

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Guest Log Book Loans Employee

Thank you to the management.

 

Indeed its always good to show customers and members of public who view these sites our version of events.

 

All answers will be unbiased and fair to both the customer and Company.

 

Regards

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok then, genuine question, if a client of lbl got themselves into the situation that they could no longer afford the repayments would lbl be prepared to allow client to find a buyer and be paid the debt in full leaving client any left over money rather than it going to auction and possibly raising less money?

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Hi there

Thanks for taking the time to answer questions on LBL. My question is, if you pay the loan off, and have a figure left due to missed payments, can you dispute this, as letters come from LBL saying, loan now overdue (due to charges added at the end) and needs paying immediately or risk car reposession. Is this really possible? I would like to dispute the figure, but as a mother of three with another on the way, I cannot afford to lose my only means of transport. I want to get my keys back and put the loan behind me, but with still a large figure hanging over my head I dont know how this will be possible? I have asked LBL for a full breakdown of the charges as I wanted to seek advice from CAB but they have said they cannot break down what each £12.00 charge is actually for.

Your advise would be really aprreciated.

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Guest Log Book Loans Employee

Hi Shammy

 

Sorry bit late, there should be no problem if the loan is paid off, if their are charges then query them, generally if the loan is paid of their should not be a prob, however what kind of figure are we talking about?

 

If the amount is quite large which it should not be, then certainly query it, as they are being refunded at the moment, because of you are a potential returning customer, unlikely! lol.

 

Let me know if there is anything else.

 

Bp, shame on you lol

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Thank LBL Employee, the charges are over 600 pounds, and do seem a little unfair. Will see what we can do - although others have advise I pay them so that I can get my documentation back first before asking for the claims back. It does seem sound to do this, as reading others stories on here, I dont want to lose my car over the charges, as it would mean having to give up my night job etc and so reducing our family income, which wouldnt be a favourable option.

 

Shammy

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hi

I have approx £150 left of my loan with logbook,but have been advised I have £612 of default charges, I made a debit card payment last week and was advised on 16th march a letter will be sent advising £290 needs to be paid to prevent further action (taking of car). I have already sent letter 1 asking for them to waiver the charges, yesterday I sent letter 2 advising if they do not waiver the charges I will have no reservations to persue this via the online small claims route, They advise the charges are to cover staff costs and building costs and extra man hours to advise of missed payments, I responded to that claim that the very high interest rate already compensates them more than enough for such costs. I have also swapped my car with a relative just incase. Once I have cleared the loan balance next week I will be requesting my logbook and for the matter to be closed, will LBL still try to enforce the bill of sale and try to seek possession of my car

thanks for any advice on how to play this out

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Call me a cynic, but this call for LBL Q&A's seems to be very one-sided - all that seems to be happening is they're getting more info out of people, offering no real advice or insight on this board (or, indeed, explanation for all these people evidently saddled with hundreds of pounds of charges at the time of expected conclusion of their loans) with any 'meat' promised on PM's.

What SHOULD be happening is they (LBL the company) should be seeking to arrest what appears to be wholescale issues with their business by nominating an identified spokesperson on a special customer care line and not just posting glib responses at 1 in the morning on here.

All that's happening is yet another clear example of the company treating their customer base with patronising contempt and no attempt being made to explain or justify the actions of themselves and their agents.

 

"lol" stands for laugh-out-loud, and you best believe that's exactly what they are doing.....

Edited by Fleeced73
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it may be just me, but there seems to be a lot of us LBL customers with a big coincidence of us all aparantley owing £600 give or take a few pounds, nearly every customer blog i have read about the default charges from LBL all seem to be near enough the same amount, I find that quite odd in itself as all the loans are different amounts over different lengths of time....but always £600 ???????????????????????????????????????

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Yes, mine was just below the £600 mark too - but I did claim it all back

 

I must admit, I'm a little alarmed/concerned at some of the OPs posts.

jaxads

 

Halifax - £2281, successfully refunded all charges after LBA letter & telephone call.

Have been offered the difference between the £20 and £12 charges from Capital One -- am sending LBA for remainder.

GE Money - Received settlement of £441, being total charges requested. No interest though.

CCA'd Bank of Scotland / Blair Oliver Scott to produce CCA Agreements on two Credit Cards - well in default, although still chasing payment!!!

EOS Solutions "ceased action on account" on behalf of a friend.

 

All in all, quite busy at the moment and enjoying every minute of it
:eek:

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

It is Interesting that the LBL employee has not responded to anymore posts since the 13th March 09.

 

On the 13th March 09 the LBL Company (Nine Regions Ltd) were minded that the OFT seeks to revoke their credit licence.

 

They have 21 days in which to make representation.

 

No doubt he will be busy copying and pasting the 'postings' regarding his registration on this forum and getting them in front of the Adjudificator to assist them with their plea for keeping their licence.

 

I find it appalling - I fear this will not be the only forum that he will have sought to be seen to be 'oh, so cutomer facing/caring'....

 

Or could it be, that he accepts that it may be, that he will no longer be working for LBL's as and if they lose their credit licence and sought a more respecful career?

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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It is Interesting that the LBL employee has not responded to anymore posts since the 13th March 09.

 

On the 13th March 09 the LBL Company (Nine Regions Ltd) were minded that the OFT seeks to revoke their credit licence.

 

They have 21 days in which to make representation.

 

No doubt he will be busy copying and pasting the 'postings' regarding his registration on this forum and getting them in front of the Adjudificator to assist them with their plea for keeping their licence.

 

I find it appalling - I fear this will not be the only forum that he will have sought to be seen to be 'oh, so cutomer facing/caring'....

 

Or could it be, that he accepts that it may be, that he will no longer be working for LBL's as and if they lose their credit licence and sought a more respecful career?

 

 

Also has it never crossed anyones mind that anyone can create an account and call themselves whatever, the fact that as has been previously mentioned, to join and gather enough information on here in order to help themselves, not good and I for one have nothing to say to the op that my solicitor can not say before a judge and what I have also forwarded to OFT....I think the way LBL operate is underhand and his/hers postings offer no real advice/support for the customer so then the question is why did they join?

I'm fighting back and ready to go :D who will be my first victim? LBL, Brighthouse.

 

..."If you have no confidence in self, you are twice defeated in the race of life."

 

I am not here to insult or offend...just to offer advice and seek advice as all this is a learning experience, such is the cycle of life...for those that would wish to insult me for my thoughts or deeds...Stay Blessed for I know my heart is pure with no ill thought towards YOU. :cool:

Nationwide Won:D Benefits returned £577

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I've just been scouting the OFT Website again and I found this interesting fact that may help those that are visited by Companies who call out to collect the debt or the vehicle on behalf of log book loan or other Companies in the capacity of 'debt collector'

 

UNLICENSED TRADING

 

"IT IS A CRIMINAL OFFENCE TO CARRY OUT ANY ACTIVITY THAT REQUIRES A CONSUMER CREDIT LICENCE BEFORE A LICENCE HAS BEEN ISSUED TO YOU.

 

EVEN IF YOU HAVE A LICENCE, IT IS AN OFFENCE TO CARRY OUT ANY LICENSABLE ACTIVITIES THAT ARE NOT COVERED BY THAT LICENCE

 

UNLICENSED TRADING IS PUNISHABLE BY A FINE, IMPRISONMENT, OR BOTH

 

IN ADDITION, IF ANY OF YOUR CUSTOMERS WERE TO DEFAULT ON A PAYMENT, YOU SOULD NOT BE ABLE TO ENFORCE A CREDIT AGREEMENT THAT YOU HAD MADE WHILE UNLICENSED, OR WHERE AN UNLICENSED CREDIT BROKER WAS INVOLVED.

 

AN AGREEMENT FOR THE SERVICES OF A CREDIT BROKER, DEBT COLLECTOR, (such as Anglican uk ETC), DEBT ADJUSTER, DEBT COUNSELLOR,, DEBT ADMINISTRATOR, CREDIT REFERNCE AGENCY OR PROVIDER OF CREDIT INFORMATION SERVICES CANNOT BE ENFORCED IF THE AGREEMENT WAS ENTERED INTO WHEN THE BUSINESS WAS UNLICENSED.

 

 

ALSO - Note the following:

"YOUR LICENCE WILL BE ISSUED IN THE NAME OF YOUR PARTNERSHIP, LIMITED COMPANY OR OTHER TYPE OF ORGANISATION (such as a charity)

IF YOU ARE A SOLE TRADER, YOUR LICENCE WILL BE ISSUED IN YOUR OWN NAME.

IF YOU ALSO CONDUCT LICENSABLE BUSINESS UNDER ANY OTHER TRADING NAME(S), YOU MUST APPLY FOR THE NAME(S) TO BE INCLUDED ON YOUR LICENCES.

IT IS A CRIMINAL OFFENCE TO CARRY OUT ANY ACTIVIYT THAT REQUIRES A CONSUMER CREDIT LICENCE UNDER A NAME THAT IS NOT ON YOUR LICENCE. "

 

IT IS A CRIMINAL OFFENCE TO CARRY OUT ANY ACTIVITY THAT REQUIRES A CONSUMER CREDIT LICENCE UNDER A NAME THAT IS NOT ON YOUR LICENCE.

It could be argued under this regulation that it essentially means that as Log Book Loans license does not show the name of Anglian UK Ltd or Gemini or any other Debt Collection organisation that may have visited you - if these Companies do not have a license in their own right - then they AND LBL are committing an offence, for which they can be arrested. The debt collection Company MUST have a license in their own name to collect money or carry out any enforcement action on behalf of LBL's. Debt Collectors licenses are issued as a Catergory 'F' as LBL's licence does not cover them due to the fact they are not mentioned in LBL licence.

I hope this 'research' can help anybody who may have been confused by LBL's regarding enforcing a debt in default.

Licence Details of log book loans.txt

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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