UNPAID FARE NOTICE CrossCountry trains.

[mercutio3]

Hi,

 

I hope someone can help with a bit of advice.

 

I bought two ADVANCE 1st class single tickets from Oxford to Leeds and return. Cost £120 approx. The difference for ANYTIME fares was a £4. But my travel plans were fixed and I wanted to book a seat, so I reasoned that the restrictions of the tickets wouldn't be a problem.

 

On the way from my hotel to the station a young lady was knocked off her bike. I'm a Dr, so I helped out and made sure she was Ok and made my way to the Station.

 

On arriving I found I had missed my train by 5 mins, so I waited for the next, 55 mins later.

 

The ticket collector pointed out my ticket was invalid. Sadly common sense didn't prevail and I was issued with an Unpaid Fare Notice for £120 as I refused to pay for another ticket.

 

I have appealed to IRCAS and sent numerous mails to CossCountry trains all to no avail. It's a bit like talking to the Vogons in Hitchikers guide to the Galaxy. "Resistance is useless."

 

I know that strictly speaking, yes I didn't have a valid ticket to travel, but I'm no fare dodger and I've never even had so much as a parking ticket. I'm a 50 year old doctor travelling first class to and from a conference. Not exactly Asbo fodder. Also it does seem unfair to be penalised for doing the obvious thing and my job rather than rushing to catch a train. What if it was your sister, wife or daughter?

 

I'm happy to go to court and argue the toss but having got this far without a criminal record I'd quite like to keep it that way.

 

Any thoughts about what's the best way to proceed?

 

Many thanks.

[neeze9]

Unhappy with the reply from IRCAS?

 

Go straight to Cross Country customer services they like to keep their customers happy and will ask the appeal authority to cancel the unpaid fare that their own train managers issued!!!

[timbo58]

Have to say:

firstly no one has accused you of 'fare dodging' - it's what it says 'on the tin' an unpaid fares notice, no criminal record/asbo or anything else.

i.e. NO intent not to pay the fare -you obviously refused to pay the 'standard fare' at the time and so you were issued with this UPFN, the TM has no option but to charge you this, so discretion would only apply if the TM thought they could justify this action.

 

To be fair, The TM at least allowed you to remain on the train for the whole journey -my company insists we issue a UPFN to the NEXT staffed station ONLY! i.e you'd be 2 hours late by the time you'd sorted that one out!

 

Regardless of the 'difference' in fares YOUR fare had NOT been paid for THAT service, end of.

 

UPFNs can be nasty- these are controlled by a seperate company usually RPSS, who will chase this remorselessly, issuing extra top ups every 14 days for non payment, they get 80-90% of the monies just for chasing it, so believe me, they WILL chase it!

It can end up in a CCJ if unpaid, so make sure you keep on top of it.

 

It was a fair point that you obeyed your overriding professional oath at your own expense.

 

I have to say I may have used discretion as the TM but to be fair: you didn't sort the ticket out where you should have (the station) despite having ample time to do so, and you may also have found the TMs attitude different had you approached them before they eventually found you, this is often the case IME.

 

You can't and won't get a criminal record for this, BUT the TOC will probably keep this on record -(ie if it should happen again then you may well find yourself being summonsed along those lines) and you COULD get a CCJ if it's not paid for or sorted out asap.

[mercutio3]

Thanks for taking the time Timbo58.

 

I guess the sensible thing to have done would have been to sort it out at the station. Serious mental note that one. However at the time I was smarting at being refused entry to the First Class Lounge because I didn't have a proper first class ticket, ie non advance. lol

 

Have decided to take it on the chin and put it down to expensive experience. £135 winging it's way to IRCAS as we speak.

 

Hope they choke.

[timbo58]

IRCAS must be the same as 'our' company RPSS I suspect -a private company who only check names/details on their extensive databases and process unpaid fares.

 

I am surprised about them not letting advance 1st holders into their lounge -I would write and ask if this IS their company policy as I'm sure other TOCs don't discriminate purely on advance/full fare?

[Guest mc661]

Send a letter to CrossCountry Customer services regarding the incident.

 

You never know they might refund what you've paid to IRCAS/IPFAS/RPSS.

 

Explain that the reason you missed your booked train was that in your medical capacity you attended to a medical incident. You thought that this was a good thing to do, as prompt action can prevent further problems. etc etc.

You explained this to the TM, who refused to believe you. (mind you he is only following procedure).

 

Remember to put your post nominal letters after your name on the letter. I dunno what GPs have after their names nowdays!

[timbo58]

The problem as I have mentioned earlier in this line of defence is that it should have been used when he was at the station awaiting the next train for some considerable time, the station manger/supervisor could have easily stamped the ticket or attached an authority to travel and everyone would have been happy.

 

I'm surmising here but IME:

It ISN'T the fact that the TM refused to believe him -whether he believed him or not is entirely irrelevant, the TM obviously thought that he had no justification for not having sorted out his problem ticket earlier and had merely presented the TM with a 'fait accompli' (ie here's my problem ticket -what are YOU going to do about it!?) AND then forced the TM into issuing the UPFN by refusing to pay when correctly asked for payment for a new ticket (not my favourite job by a long stretch -they are tricky to get correct and phone calls checking ID have to be made, very time consuming, when the TM is often the ONLY ticket checker on the entire train and has numerous other tasks to complete!)

 

As I said earlier, My toc insists a UPFN is ONLY to the next manned station NOT all the way home, and I suspect Virgin are the same so the TM did use some considerable discretion in spite of being regarded by some as rigidly enforcing unfair rules.

 

 

Saying that by all means write to the TOC, ironically if the TOC decides in his favour it would have been FAR better to have paid the darn fare at the time of asking, as a UPFN goes to another private company who will be reluctant to allow it to go as they receive a large percentage of the fare for their own administration!