Davey vs Amex

[the_shadow]

haha the silence since the letter mentioning securitisation is telling :D

 

S.

[davey77]

Indeed so.. they have been so quick to reply previously but that last letter has slowed them down. Have something to think about perhaps!

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Davey77!

 

This may help, something Richard Spud has just spotted:

 

EXCELLENT WORK BY THE OFT AGAINST A DCA

 

See the latest action published on 21st April 2009 and valuable OFT opinions to cite to other DCAs and the County Courts.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk:80/news/press/2009/44-09

 

“Under the Limitation Act 1980, which applies to England and Wales, a debt is considered to be statute barred when no payments have been made against it or where it has not been acknowledged for six years. A statute barred debt cannot be legally recovered. Whilst the OFT accepts that the debt still exists, the OFT considers that it can be unfair to pursue the debt in the circumstances set out in our Debt Collection Guidance”

 

Quote from the OFT MACKENZIE HALL PDF document:

 

“REQUIREMENTS IMPOSED BY THE OFT REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO:

 

MACKENZIE HALL LIMITED

 

A debt is considered as in dispute where:

 

A request under section 77 or 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 has not been complied with, and this prevents the agreement being enforced without the permission of the court”

 

I suggest that the above reference to ss.77 and 78 of the CCA 1974 is a very strong endorsement of the rights of consumers to be provided with true copies of Regulated agreements.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[davey77]

Ah yes i noticed that.. very good to see the OFT finally taking such action. Took them long enough that's for sure.

 

I feel though that the clarification on the 'dispute' doesn't go far enough. All a creditor has to do is send the updated T&Cs or an unsigned agreement to comply with section 78 stating it was a 'true copy'.

 

Now if the OFT had said:

 

"A debt is considered as in dispute where:

 

A request for original signed agreement has not been complied with..."

 

That would be something i would buy a bottle of champagne to go with!

Edited April 22, 2009 by davey77

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Davey,

 

I am now back with my computer and was about to send my latest missive to Amex but noticed you are expecting the postman in the morning - if they reply!!

 

I am dying to see how they answer the securitisation question. They completely ignored my question about where the T&Cs actually were or when they were supposedly sent.

 

Did you get a response yet, Shadow? If we all keep asking the securitisation question they'll have to answer at some point - or we can report them again.

 

DD

[the_shadow]

Hi Davey,

 

Did you get a response yet, Shadow? If we all keep asking the securitisation question they'll have to answer at some point - or we can report them again.

 

DD

 

Only response I got was a default notice in the post today

 

Sent on the 21st and giving me 14 calander days from the date of the letter:-D:-D

 

S.

[Desperate Daniella]

:D

[citizenB]

Only response I got was a default notice in the post today

 

Sent on the 21st and giving me 14 calander days from the date of the letter:-D:-D

 

S.

 

You would have thought they would have got it right by now dont you

[davey77]

Hi Davey,

 

I am now back with my computer and was about to send my latest missive to Amex but noticed you are expecting the postman in the morning - if they reply!!

 

I am dying to see how they answer the securitisation question. They completely ignored my question about where the T&Cs actually were or when they were supposedly sent.

 

Did you get a response yet, Shadow? If we all keep asking the securitisation question they'll have to answer at some point - or we can report them again.

 

DD

 

Nice you have the computer sorted DD. Still nothing in the post from Amex today. Strange that, they have always been so keen to talk to me!

[davey77]

You would have thought they would have got it right by now dont you

 

Thank goodness they are so dumb. Makes our tasks just a little bit easier!

[Desperate Daniella]

Unbelievably I found my Default Notice this morning. I have been looking for months. (Still looking for the termination letter.)

 

I have the 14 calendar days too.

 

DD

[Desperate Daniella]

Well the whole letter was good, but what are they going to say about the securitisation? I think they will be very careful about committing anything to paper.

 

DD

[davey77]

Wouldn't be surprised if they pass it directly to a DCA and don't even bother to respond!

 

If they do that then I'm charging Amex for my time at a rate of £50 a day since the dispute date plus the interest they charge me at 18%

[Taipo]

Dear Davey77,

 

I am new to this site and got into debt due to various personal reasons one of which is unemployment for the past six months .

 

Impressive reading of your due diligence in your related threads on claiming back monies from the credit card companies. You must be an expert on all the wording in the Consumer Credit Act 1974?

 

I presume the basis of your actions is to have the credit card money debt removed (charges, interest and capital spent on the card) based upon the recent 'legal'(?) findings that the wording in some CCA agreements are not enforceable and therefore challenging this by going to court by instigating on your side?

 

In my situation, the AMEX account defaulted due to inability to pay and sent to the infamous RMA Resolve DCA after three months. RMA did the usual multiple phone calls to home, mobile, letters, postcards etc.

 

Through the advice of CCCS - Free Debt Advice from the UK's Leading Debt Charity they advised me not to speak to RMA by phone but to put all correspondence in writing and a token payment of 1.00 GBP going forward until my financial situation changes.

 

I have since received a letter from a firm of London based solicitors acting on behalf of RMA stating that they will begin court proceedings against me if I do not settle the account in full within 7 days.

 

As I am almost at the litigation stage between RMA and myself do I have time to go through the same process as you to see if I can get any charges removed and question the CCA?

 

Attached is a copy of the CCA received from AMEX/RMA which is a signed and approved copy of the 'Express Application form' and their standard T's and C's.

 

Note that the agreement was signed in Feb 2001 but the wording in second paragraph 'CREDIT AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974' states;

 

'I confirm that the information I have given here is true and correct. I am (and my Additional Cardmember is) over 18 years of age. By signing below I confirm that I have read, understood and agree to all the Terms and Conditions that form part of this agreement. I request that American Express issue me with a British Airways American Express Card including ant renewal or replacement Cards. I authorise american Express to issue my Account an Additional card to any person named by me as an Additional Cardmember and understand that I shall be liable for all Transactions incurred on any Additional cards issued on my Account. I understand that the Terms and Conditions form part of the agreement and that american Express may decline to give me a Card at their sole discretion.'

 

If you refer to the underlined sentence, does this form part of the legal agreement?

 

AMEX is the only CCA that I have received. I also have credit card debt on three other main bank lenders where i have not requested the CCA of which one other has entered into the DCA process.

 

I am contemplating whether to follow your lead with all of my defaulted credit cards i.e. copy of CCA, reference to the various paragraphs in the Consumer Credit Agreement 1974, original under CPR.

 

 

Will be happy to hear your views on the attached 'Express Applcation' documents or from anybody else on this forum upon how best to proceed.

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

Taipo

[foolishgirl]

Hi Taipo - welcome to CAG

 

The thumbnails you have attached are a bit small to see the detail. Can you enlarge or use photobucket or similar to upload please?

 

On the face of it, it look as as though all you have there is an application form - it is clearly headed appliation form & there do not appear to be any prescribed terms. If that is the case you could challenge any legal action on that basis; however to be sure, please provide a larger copy if you can.

[davey77]

Hi Taipo.

 

Does look like an application form at first glance although as foolishgirl says, a bit small. Try using photobucket:

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

 

I would begin by starting your own thread in the Amex forum to get the best help and attention:

 

Amex - The Consumer Forums

 

Top left of that page is the 'new thread' button. Give it a thread title of "Taipo vs Amex CCA" or something similar.

 

I'd start new threads for each of the creditors you have also in their respective forums. If you can't find that PM me with a list of creditors names and i'll send you links to where they are.

 

I wouldn't worry about the Solicitors letter.. we've all had those and 9 times out of 10 nothing comes of it.

[davey77]

Dear Davey77,

 

Impressive reading of your due diligence in your related threads on claiming back monies from the credit card companies. You must be an expert on all the wording in the Consumer Credit Act 1974?

I'm not no, but pt2537 and steven4064 are very knowledgeable and their opinions are worth listening to.

 

Through the advice of CCCS - Free Debt Advice from the UK's Leading Debt Charity they advised me not to speak to RMA by phone but to put all correspondence in writing and a token payment of 1.00 GBP going forward until my financial situation changes.

 

I have since received a letter from a firm of London based solicitors acting on behalf of RMA stating that they will begin court proceedings against me if I do not settle the account in full within 7 days.

Highly unlikely they will proceed with Court action based on your employment status and the fact you have been making payments.

 

As I am almost at the litigation stage between RMA and myself do I have time to go through the same process as you to see if I can get any charges removed and question the CCA?

Always a good idea to CCA the lender as a first measure. If they fail to supply (at the very least) a true copy of the agreement within the statutory time frame then that can be a defence in itself against any Court Action they may try to take as they will be in default of your request after 12 + 2 working days.

 

Attached is a copy of the CCA received from AMEX/RMA which is a signed and approved copy of the 'Express Application form' and their standard T's and C's.

 

Note that the agreement was signed in Feb 2001 but the wording in second paragraph 'CREDIT AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974' states;

 

'I confirm that the information I have given here is true and correct. I am (and my Additional Cardmember is) over 18 years of age. By signing below I confirm that I have read, understood and agree to all the Terms and Conditions that form part of this agreement. I request that American Express issue me with a British Airways American Express Card including ant renewal or replacement Cards. I authorise american Express to issue my Account an Additional card to any person named by me as an Additional Cardmember and understand that I shall be liable for all Transactions incurred on any Additional cards issued on my Account. I understand that the Terms and Conditions form part of the agreement and that american Express may decline to give me a Card at their sole discretion.'

 

If you refer to the underlined sentence, does this form part of the legal agreement?

I wouldn't worry about that aspect for the mo. Once you have posted up larger copies of what they have sent then it will be clearer what position you are in to potentially challenge the agreement.

 

AMEX is the only CCA that I have received. I also have credit card debt on three other main bank lenders where i have not requested the CCA of which one other has entered into the DCA process.

Send who ever is demanding payment right now a CCA request (unsigned) that you haven't already sent one to.

 

I am contemplating whether to follow your lead with all of my defaulted credit cards i.e. copy of CCA, reference to the various paragraphs in the Consumer Credit Agreement 1974, original under CPR.

 

Will be happy to hear your views on the attached 'Express Applcation' documents or from anybody else on this forum upon how best to proceed.

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

Taipo

 

As said, looks possible your agreement may be dodgy (year of application date being another factor) but will look at your thread once it's up and running.

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Taipo,

 

There are so many of us fighting Amex at the moment. The positive news is that several people have won against them.

 

You may want to include British Airways in the title of your thread too. I am sure I have seen another thread with the same application as yours and I find it's very helpful to see the questions asked by the cagger and the Amex/RMA/etc. responses to specific points raised about the wording on specific forms.

 

In my case, Amex are just not answering direct questions - which is just typical.

 

Good luck. I'm sure we'll all keep up with your thread.

 

DD

[davey77]

Hi Taipo - welcome to CAG

 

Foolishgirl.. isn't it about time you had yourself an avatar?

[davey77]

This thread has a British Airways 'style' application form:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/amex/196239-cca-response.html

[foolishgirl]

Foolishgirl.. isn't it about time you had yourself an avatar?

 

 

What do you suggest? Keep it clean please!

 

As my settings are set not to show avatars, I don't miss it & I'm not promising to follow any suggestions either.

[davey77]

All quiet on the Amex front. They are still thinking about how to reply.

[the_shadow]

All quiet on the Amex front. They are still thinking about how to reply.

 

Could be one of two things:

 

1) The word had more than one syllable in it, probably confused.

 

2) Theyre scouring english-american dictionaries trying to understand the difference between securitisation and securitization :D

 

No news is good news so to speak...

 

S.

[foolishgirl]

Foolishgirl.. isn't it about time you had yourself an avatar?

 

Happy, davey?!

[Alphageek]

No, that's terrible - turn it off!