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davey77

Davey vs Amex

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Start date 15 June 2004.

 

Credit Limit (was £5400)

 

A couple of late payments but no problems generally. No defaults.

 

Current Balance £1200

 

Notice of Variation received in Jan this year. So sent this letter:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in response to the recently received notice of variation letter in relation to my American Express Gold Card account (as above).

 

Your letter states that from the 1st March 2009 the APR will increase to 18.9% (from it’s current 13.9%.)

 

This seems to me an overly large increase considering the Bank of England base rate currently at a low of 1.5% and given your letter’s sentence thanking me for being a ‘valued’ Customer.

 

I must ask how you feel this increase is justified in relation to the Base Rate and my personal use of the above Card. I am certainly, and have been, a good customer to the point of making money for American Express over a period of time and have incurred a small number of late payment charges as well as not paying off the entire balance of the card in a short space of time, therefore I would assume am considered a very good customer as opposed to someone who never uses their card or has defaulted and can no longer make any kind of payments.

 

Your increase, while legal, is certainly considered by me inappropriate and unethical and should you wish to cancel the intended increase in APR I should certainly like to continue being a valued and worthwhile customer for many years to come.

If, on the other hand, you do not feel so inclined and go ahead with the increase then I should inform you that i would consider this disrespectful and disproportionate and once i have cleared the balance remaining I will be contacting American Express with the view to closing my account permanently and moving my business elsewhere.

 

I hope this action will not become needed though and you can reconsider you planned increase in light of my letter.

 

Yours sincerely, Me

 

Reply received today:

 

Amex.jpg

 

Now i can understand (up to a point) a creditor reducing the credit limit upon reviewing an account holder's credit file but i object to the disrespectful 'reply' and lack of courtesy by their response to my letter. As well as the fact that they reduced the limit to within inches of the current balance (hoping i will struggle and thereby lumping on charges no doubt.)

 

So.. CCA1974 (s77-79) request printed off and ready to be posted tomorrow by recorded delivery. Lets see what they have....


:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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So.. CCA1974 (s77-79) request printed off and ready to be posted tomorrow by recorded delivery. Lets see what they have....

 

Good luck.. mine was for post 2006 so they had the agreement and have given me a copy of a single page plus a bulk load of T&C in reply to the CCA......... they havent sent the actual t&C I had with the card mind as I might have that in my email system:D

 

I'm hoping they'll agree to my reduced payments but looking at how they've treated you and others I'm not holding out much hope to be honest:-(


Are You as Anonymous on CAG as You Think You Are? *Link*

 

The CAG is a free help site,should you be offered help that requires payment,please report it to site team.

 

Deal with your debts:

STEP ONE - Dont Panic! | STEP TWO - Priority & Non Priority Debts | STEP THREE - Personal Budget Sheet | STEP FOUR - A SAFE bank Account | STEP FIVE - Dealing with Priority Debts | STEP SIX - Non-priority Debts | STEP SEVEN - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt1 | STEP EIGHT - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt2 | STEP NINE - Perils of Consolidation | STEP TEN - RE-Evaluate Frequently

 

***** SERIOUSLY IN DEBT, DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, TRY NationalDebtLine's MoneySteps *****

 

 

IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

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Good luck.. mine was for post 2006 so they had the agreement and have given me a copy of a single page plus a bulk load of T&C in reply to the CCA......... they havent sent the actual t&C I had with the card mind as I might have that in my email system:D

 

I'm hoping they'll agree to my reduced payments but looking at how they've treated you and others I'm not holding out much hope to be honest:-(

 

Good luck to you too. Does seem after reading around that Amex consider themselves above the Law as much as all the other creditors out there put together.


:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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Hi Davey,

 

Just looking at that letter, it's almost the same as one I received from them prior to me even thinking about sending them a CCA.

I was not in arrears and they just dropped the credit limit to within £180 of what was outstanding, quoting the same reasons they gave you.

 

I'm wondering if that is a response to your letter or just one that was coming your way, just like mine.

 

If it is the response, it's dreadful.

I thought a certain person once pointed out on the cag, that Amex preferred customers such as ourselves, one's that never paid it in full, used the card regularly, incurred interest charges etc?

 

Good Luck Elg.

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Hey,

 

I would say it is a direct response to my letter as i have not received anything else from them. I would have thought that too.. that a customer that incurs charges is what Amex want but..

 

..if it is the case that they are aware that many of their agreements do not conform to the regulations and potentially could be unenforceable (therefore could eventually be written off if the debtor pushes hard enough) then their response to any debtor (that looks like they are going to be trouble) would be to reduce the credit limit. And thereby limit possibly greater losses later on.

 

It seems an obvious conclusion to make based on their reaction to a straight forward letter. (Davey77 is going to be trouble in other words.)

 

CCA request received by Amex today.. clock is ticking...... ;)

Edited by davey77

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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Let them ask for the card back now!

 

AmexBurn.jpg


:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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HAHAHAHAHA I dont know if that'll get removed but it really was priceless....

 

Well done Davey thats given me a chuckle over dinnertime :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


Are You as Anonymous on CAG as You Think You Are? *Link*

 

The CAG is a free help site,should you be offered help that requires payment,please report it to site team.

 

Deal with your debts:

STEP ONE - Dont Panic! | STEP TWO - Priority & Non Priority Debts | STEP THREE - Personal Budget Sheet | STEP FOUR - A SAFE bank Account | STEP FIVE - Dealing with Priority Debts | STEP SIX - Non-priority Debts | STEP SEVEN - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt1 | STEP EIGHT - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt2 | STEP NINE - Perils of Consolidation | STEP TEN - RE-Evaluate Frequently

 

***** SERIOUSLY IN DEBT, DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, TRY NationalDebtLine's MoneySteps *****

 

 

IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

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Quality....we should make a huge credit card bonfire and film it:D


If you feel I have helped please tickle my scales;)

 

 

MBNA - Ongoing

Egg Loan - Ongoing

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Quality....we should make a huge credit card bonfire and film it:D

 

I have two nice platinum colored cards to add (they've sent me a nice brand spanking new even though I've told them im in financial difficulty.. nothing like responsible lending:oops:)


Are You as Anonymous on CAG as You Think You Are? *Link*

 

The CAG is a free help site,should you be offered help that requires payment,please report it to site team.

 

Deal with your debts:

STEP ONE - Dont Panic! | STEP TWO - Priority & Non Priority Debts | STEP THREE - Personal Budget Sheet | STEP FOUR - A SAFE bank Account | STEP FIVE - Dealing with Priority Debts | STEP SIX - Non-priority Debts | STEP SEVEN - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt1 | STEP EIGHT - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt2 | STEP NINE - Perils of Consolidation | STEP TEN - RE-Evaluate Frequently

 

***** SERIOUSLY IN DEBT, DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, TRY NationalDebtLine's MoneySteps *****

 

 

IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

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Just be down wind when you start burning.. as expected, Credit Cards give off quite a nefarious odor upon ignition. Not surprising considering they are highly 'toxic' in nature to the many people that come into contact with them.


:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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Let them ask for the card back now!

 

AmexBurn.jpg

 

LOL - Probably a good move considering the the recent case with MBNA.


The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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It was after reading that thread that i burnt it. ;)


:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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I am very surprised to say that today i received a response to my CCA request. That must be an all time record and has never happened to me before.

 

Unfortunately all they have managed to supply is a single A4 Application form along with a couple of updated agreements that are unsigned.

(Even those are not printed very well. The images shown are a good representation of what they look like.) I won't post all of those up as it's the signature page which is the important one.

 

Now what to reply? hmmm Demands, the Law etc OR i might try a very simplistic reply to lull them into thinking i don't know what i am talking about. Thereby getting them to 'open up' a bit. Worth a try.

 

Oh i love this part: "Please see the statements we have sent you previously to validate the debt held."

 

Sounds more like a plea for mercy to me ;)

 

Amex_0001.jpg

 

Amex-1.jpg

 

Amex_0002.jpg


:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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I am very surprised to say that today i received a response to my CCA request. That must be an all time record and has never happened to me before.

 

Unfortunately all they have managed to supply is a single A4 Application form along with a couple of updated agreements that are unsigned.

(Even those are not printed very well. The images shown are a good representation of what they look like.) I won't post all of those up as it's the signature page which is the important one.

 

Now what to reply? hmmm Demands, the Law etc OR i might try a very simplistic reply to lull them into thinking i don't know what i am talking about. Thereby getting them to 'open up' a bit. Worth a try.

 

Oh i love this part: "Please see the statements we have sent you previously to validate the debt held."

 

Sounds more like a plea for mercy to me ;)

 

Think the begging bit is on their standard template, I got it in reply to my CCA request and I cut out the "I do not acknowledge any debt" in my request.

 

As to the "agreement" or should I say application why is it stamped signed by them in 2006, is that when they realised their cock up re: not signing documents?


Are You as Anonymous on CAG as You Think You Are? *Link*

 

The CAG is a free help site,should you be offered help that requires payment,please report it to site team.

 

Deal with your debts:

STEP ONE - Dont Panic! | STEP TWO - Priority & Non Priority Debts | STEP THREE - Personal Budget Sheet | STEP FOUR - A SAFE bank Account | STEP FIVE - Dealing with Priority Debts | STEP SIX - Non-priority Debts | STEP SEVEN - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt1 | STEP EIGHT - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt2 | STEP NINE - Perils of Consolidation | STEP TEN - RE-Evaluate Frequently

 

***** SERIOUSLY IN DEBT, DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, TRY NationalDebtLine's MoneySteps *****

 

 

IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

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Thanks for the input. I hadn't noticed that! Yes you're right. It does look like 2006. How very odd of them?! Probably were, like most creditors, really lazy and decided to go through them a couple of years later stamping them hoping that would make up for the lack of Prescribed Terms lol

 

Amexcopy.jpg

Edited by davey77

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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I tried really hard to write something simply but i just couldn't :) Lets see what they think of this instead:

 

 

"Dear Madam,

 

Thank you for your prompt reply to my statutory request for information.

 

I note that in reply to that request you sent the following:

 

* 1. A signed Application form

 

* 2. Updated copy agreements (unsigned)

 

* 3. Terms and Conditions

 

With these documents in mind perhaps you could clarify matters. Documents 2 & 3 (although slightly poor quality) obviously do not contain any signatures.

 

Document number 1, which is of a higher quality copy, appears to be a pre-contractual Application form. This form is dated May 2004 yet the signature stamp of the Lender seems to indicate a failed attempt to execute the document was not taken until 10 July 2006. Perhaps you could explain the 2 year delay?

 

This aside, even if the signature stamp had been placed upon the document in question at or around the time of inception this would not create a Legally compliant document as there are no Prescribed Terms in evidence on the Application form itself.

 

For your information, and per your previous suggestion that statements are all that is required to “validate the debt held”, i refer you to the following:

 

s61 CCA - Signing of agreement:

(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

 

(page 1/3)

 

© the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

 

Also:

 

s127(3) CCA:

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

I am aware that under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (**CCA1974**) you are permitted to omit signatures and other details from copy documents in reply to a request under the same act.

But i am sure you will agree as a law abiding organisation that what you have supplied to date, does not conform to the regulations and therefore as a Pre-April 2007 agreement, is Irredeemably Unenforceable as you have failed to supply a document signed myself that contains the prescribed terms as per section 61(a) and section 127(3) of the CCA 1974.

 

In this instance i would like to take the opportunity to refer you to the following in the case of Wilson v Hurstanger (2007) EWCA Civ 299:

 

"...Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties (with the benefit of legal advice if necessary) and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under section 61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127 (3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself:

they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them."

 

In relation to the above, the document you have supplied, fails in respect of Schedule 6 of the Consumer Credit (agreement) Regulations 1983. The signed document does not include (embodied within that document) terms stating the rate of interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement. There are also no terms stating how a debtor is to discharge their obligation under the amount of repayments, the frequency and the timing of repayments, the dates of repayments neither does the document headed “60 second application form” give information as to the power available to the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

I hope this new information has been of some assistance and you will be able to confirm the issues i have raised are pertinent in this case.

 

(page 2/3)

 

Please also note that i am aware that the permission to process data with the Credit Reference Agencies is included within a properly executed agreement and as you have not supplied that agreement you are precluded from processing said data.

 

Therefore, in line with the principles of the Pre Action Protocols, please supply me by return a copy of a signed original credit agreement containing the Prescribed Terms. If that is not possible, then please state how you intend to resolve this situation amicably. If you feel you can not reach an accommodation to suit both parties in these circumstances then please reply giving your reasons and i will pass the matter to my Solicitor who is currently dealing with other cases of a similar nature.

 

Please do not reply that you:

 

A: Have complied with Section 78 of the CC1974 (I am aware you may have done so and this is quite clearly not what these issues are in relation to.)

 

B. That payments made toward the above account are all that is required to enforce this account in a Court of Law.

 

C. That the Application form IS the agreement, as i have clearly shown through quotes from the relevant regulations and case Law that this is not so.

 

D. That the Prescribed Terms can be found on another document other than a signature document. (As I have already shown, this is not permitted to be the case.)

 

 

In your reply please include a breakdown of all interest and charges incurred and payments made towards the above card for the lifetime of the account since inception date.

 

I look forward to your response.

 

Yours faithfully"

Edited by davey77

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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Does any have a definitive answer as to how Amex eligible spend cashback is worked out. I find the whole thing quite confusing.

 

One month is has x amount, then xx, then later 0, then xxx?!


:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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The last statement says "Moneyback is calculated and credited annually at your Account Anniversary using your Total Eligible Spend and the rates in the table below - please see T&Cs for full details.

 

Total Eligible Spend £ 0-2,000 2,001+

Moneyback Rate 0.5% 1%"


:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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don't know about the cashback but love the reply letter your sending out. Gave me a great chuckle:lol:


If you feel I have helped please tickle my scales;)

 

 

MBNA - Ongoing

Egg Loan - Ongoing

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A reply today re my complaint about APR:

 

AMEX-2.jpg

Did she say 'the number on the back of my card'? Whoops lol

 

Also, they are looking into my complaint letter:

 

AMEX_0001-1.jpg

 

Out of interest here is their complaint procedure page (which actually doesn't say that much really.)

 

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/AMEX_0002-1.jpg


:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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A reply today re my complaint about APR:

Did she say 'the number on the back of my card'? Whoops lol

 

Could always send them the picture saying youre having trouble reading the numbers :D

 

PmW


Are You as Anonymous on CAG as You Think You Are? *Link*

 

The CAG is a free help site,should you be offered help that requires payment,please report it to site team.

 

Deal with your debts:

STEP ONE - Dont Panic! | STEP TWO - Priority & Non Priority Debts | STEP THREE - Personal Budget Sheet | STEP FOUR - A SAFE bank Account | STEP FIVE - Dealing with Priority Debts | STEP SIX - Non-priority Debts | STEP SEVEN - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt1 | STEP EIGHT - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt2 | STEP NINE - Perils of Consolidation | STEP TEN - RE-Evaluate Frequently

 

***** SERIOUSLY IN DEBT, DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, TRY NationalDebtLine's MoneySteps *****

 

 

IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

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lol yes love to.. but don't want to tip my hand just yet and let them know i am going to be that much trouble. :)

 

I have a feeling it won't be long before i send it though. I am already compiling a reply based on what they intend to write to me next (knowing full well what they is going to be). :rolleyes:


:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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lol yes love to.. but don't want to tip my hand just yet and let them know i am going to be that much trouble. :)

 

I have a feeling it won't be long before i send it though. I am already compiling a reply based on what they intend to write to me next (knowing full well what they is going to be). :rolleyes:

 

Sounds the right way to proceed, expecting to be defaulted end of next month myself as I cant see them taking pro-rata payments.


Are You as Anonymous on CAG as You Think You Are? *Link*

 

The CAG is a free help site,should you be offered help that requires payment,please report it to site team.

 

Deal with your debts:

STEP ONE - Dont Panic! | STEP TWO - Priority & Non Priority Debts | STEP THREE - Personal Budget Sheet | STEP FOUR - A SAFE bank Account | STEP FIVE - Dealing with Priority Debts | STEP SIX - Non-priority Debts | STEP SEVEN - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt1 | STEP EIGHT - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt2 | STEP NINE - Perils of Consolidation | STEP TEN - RE-Evaluate Frequently

 

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IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

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Utterly pathetic response from Amex today which of course totally ignores the points i asked them to comment upon in my previous letter. They do go some way, but stop short, of some admissions in respect to matters but have made an error in stating:

 

"We have been advised that the Agreement could only be unenforceable if (a) it were not signed by you, or (b) it did not contain the prescribed terms..."

 

Of course they mean "and (b) it did not contain the prescribed terms".

 

I already informed them the prescribed terms must be embodied within the signature document. Of course, they know that full well.

Unfortunately they have been discourteous and not supplied me with statements so i have no figures to work with which i would need for an LBA. Looks like a SAR is in order although i may send a claim letter without a specific date informing them that i await the SAR in the mean time to access the amounts that should be returned to me (or something to that effect.)

 

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:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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FORMAL REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

CPR part 31.16

 

 

Account in Dispute

Dear Madam,

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY.

 

I relation to your recent communication dated 19 March 2009 and in response to my letter dated 3 March 2009. It has become clear to me due to the content of your reply and the inaccuracies contained therein that American Express has certain misunderstandings as to their obligations towards full compliance of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974.)

 

I believe you are aware of these facts and your discourteous action not to supply me with statements to assist me in fully ascertaining your liability towards me gives grounds for my belief in your attempt to otherwise delay eventual proceedings should that become necessary.

 

I also note you did not adhere to my request under the principles of the Civil Procedure Rules (CPR) in the first instance which i find disappointing, unprofessional and in contravention of the spirit of those Rules.

 

I do not believe it is my responsibility to inform you of current legislation as i have already previously done so quite clearly and accurately nor is it my duty to help you with your understanding of the CCA1974, so fail to see the point in reiterating previously stated CCA1974 requirements. It is my belief you are fully aware of these facts pertaining to the requirements under the above act and also that American Express is in breach of those requirements. But for your reference:

 

s61 CCA - Signing of agreement:

(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

s127(3) CCA:

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

If you do not understand the requirements of the CCA1974 then i suggest you forward this letter to your legal dept.

 

Having reviewed the copy documents you have sent in response to my request under s78 CCA and your statements in writing since that time, I have come to the conclusion that no valid or enforceable agreement exists between us. This is because the only document signed is a pre-contractual application form which does not contain any prescribed terms, or any other terms or statutory notices as required by the CCA.

 

Further, the only document signed is a pre-contractual application for credit, which may or may not have been accepted, depending on your lending criteria. This was therefore an agreement that falls under s59(1) CCA and is consequently void:

 

s59 - Agreement to enter future agreement void

(1) An agreement is void if, and to the extent that, it purports to bind a person to enter as debtor or hirer into a prospective regulated agreement.

 

Therefore this alleged account is in formal and lawful dispute.

 

In the act of demanding funds while no valid binding agreement exists it appears you are attempting and have been involved in Extortion which is a criminal offence. Naturally, this will apply to individuals as well as Directors or Officers of your company and I will be looking into all possibilities in this regard.

 

The ‘application form’ you have supplied on 2 occasions refers to a Credit Agreement and not a Credit Card Agreement as strictly defined within the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 SI 1983/1553. Therefore it is invalid for any purpose linked to a Credit Card account.

 

As you are therefore seemingly unable to supply me with a valid credit card agreement, and in line with the previously mentioned regulations I therefore require a full refund of all payments made to you in the mistaken belief that a valid and enforceable agreement existed.

 

I am currently unable to calculate this figure due to your obstruction in supplying me with the relevant details previously requested under the CPR. Once this figure has been calculated I reserve the right to also included statutory interest at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of each payment.

I also require that any adverse information provided by you in respect of this alleged account to any credit reference agency be deleted from their records.

 

Since this letter is the first stage of intended court action, you are required under the general pre-action protocol of the CPR to send me any information I request. As stated you have failed to do so after my previous letter requested that information in an informal manner therefore you should consider this letter to be a formal request for that information pursuant to CPR part 31.16 and part.

 

Be advised this request is NOT pursuant to section 78 of the CCA1974 in any way.

 

Therefore you must supply me with a copy of any and all documents in your possession that you will be relying on as a defence to this claim.

 

To clarify: American Express has not supplied me with any document that is enforceable in a Court of Law. The documents you have supplied do not comply with s61(1) or s127(3) CCA and are therefore totally unenforceable, with or without a Court Order. (Not withstanding inaccuracies which render the document in question irredeemably unenforceable.)

 

You may note that any £12 charges I have been previously penalised with are currently unlawful and i refer you to the OFT statement to that effect (credit card accounts currently having no bearing on the OFT test case which relates to overdraft charges of which i am sure you are aware).

 

In order to make it clear to you that OFT did not give you permission to charge £12.00 I include these quotes from OFT:

 

“We are not suggesting that default fees should be set at £12, and a court will certainly not consider that a default fee is fair just because it is below the threshold”. “We consider that a contract term is likely to be unfair if it requires consumers to pay more as a result of a default than the court would order them to pay if they were sued for breach of contract. This means that a default charge should not exceed a reasonable pre-estimate of the administrative costs that the consumer ought to have realised would be likely to be incurred or her card issuer in dealing with defaults”.

 

In order for you to charge me £12.00 you must demonstrate to me that it cost American Express £12.00 in receiving a ‘late payment’.

 

English Law is very clear the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract. Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd (1915) AC 79.

 

I therefore require the immediate return of these charges. Irrespective of how the ‘application form’ is viewed by myself or by American Express, should this matter proceed to the County Court for Judgement, i will ask that those Charges be dissected point by point, item by item and that a demonstration be made as to the justification of said charges on a true and actual cost basis.

 

 

To clarify what i require:

 

1. A return of all payments made towards the above alleged account in the mistaken belief a valid agreement existed.

 

2. A discharge of my liability in full on the above alleged account.

 

3. Credit Reference Files to be cleared of all data pertaining to the above alleged account.

 

4. Appropriate compensation made in relation to the distress incurred and fraudulent acceptance of moneys erroneously sort pertaining to the above alleged account.

 

If these requirements are unacceptable then you must comply with the CPR request. For your information, If an Order for Disclosure is sort and American Express fail in that regard i understand such action would be considered Contempt of Court.

 

If any regulatory body contacts you regarding these matters American Express have my full permission to disclose all communication to that body.

 

Likewise, if a representative of BBC Radio or Serena Lambert (Associate Producer) of the BBC Watchdog Program (who has already taken an interest in my case) should contact American Express, again, you have my full permission to disclose all information requested.

 

I reserve the right to instruct a Solicitor at any time.

 

I also reserve the right to add 8% contractual interest to any future claim made through the County Courts and will ask for an order for all costs in bringing such action.

 

Within the spirit of the Pre Action Protocols I shall allow 21 days for your reply.

 

 

I look forward to your response.

 

Yours faithfully


:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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