Cabot v Stitchedup

[stitchedup]

ok.......just received Court papers from Northampton

 

poc are as follows

 

The Claimant is part of the Cabot Financial Group and has purchased the debt scheduled below. Despite requests for payment the Defendant has failed to pay the sum of £**** in relation to the Defendants

Goldfish Bank Ltd credit card account number **********

and the claimant claims the sum of £***** together with interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 and costs.

 

 

Brief background info, originally a Morgan Stanley account as I CCA'd Cabot several months ago, they supplied an Application form from Morgan Stanley, its even Stamped up Application !!!!

 

No default notice issued by Cabot

 

Letter before action received from Hodsons, but strangely there is no mention of them on the Court Papers.

 

I have already acknowledged online, defending the whole claim and would appreciate some help with what I do next, I appreciate that I have to send CPR request but which one should I send?

Many thanks in advance for any help

[Shawn0109]

CPR request would have to be sent to the compnay that purchased the debt in this case it would be Cabot.

[stitchedup]

Thanks for that, but I'm a little puzzled as to what I actually ask them for, as nothing is mentioned in the POC, ie on what basis are they bringing the action?

 

Almost seems like a speculative attempt to gain judgement by default?

What exactly am I defending?

[Shawn0109]

I''ll check the forum for you see if I can find anything relevant to your case, dot worry, can I ask how old the debt is and when was the last time you aknowledged it example mades any payments or things like that?

[Shawn0109]

Ok I think this is what you need adjust it to your circumstances and current situation.

 

Dear Sir,

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored] [delete if no such request was delivered]

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1 The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

2 The assignment*

3 The default notice*

4 The termination notice*

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

 

REMEBER DO NOT SIGN YOUR NAME JUST PRINT IT.

 

Hope this helps you.

[stitchedup]

Many thanks

I'll fire it off asap.

 

I've never acknowledged the debt to Cabot, never made any payments to them, they bought the alledged debt from Goldfish and prior to that it was a Morgan Stanley Credit card.

Edited January 31, 2009 by stitchedup
additional info

[Shawn0109]

Ok so when was the last time you made a payment when it was under the original creditor?

[stitchedup]

that would of been about 12 months ago, had an arrangement to pay MS and then out of the blue I received a 'Welcome to Cabot' letter, no notification that MS had been sold to Goldfish or any notification that from Goldfish that they had taken the account etc........confusing to say the least, so I CCA'd Cabot and they eventually came up with an application form (stamped application) from MS.........how dare I dispute their right to collect hey?

[Shawn0109]

well did the application form which is not a credit agreement have all the pescribed terms and conditions, did it have your signature on it and the creditors, did it state the credit limit and did it have all the pescribed terms and conditions, if not if it was missing anything out of what I have just said even if it is your signature or the pescribed terms and conditions then that would make it unenforceable.

[stitchedup]

Only my signature, no credit limit, no nothing, like I said it was stamped up.......Application Form, certainly no signature from anyone else and to be honest you cannot read it either

[Shawn0109]

And I take it no terms and conditions on it either, just asking because if all the terms and conditions are missing then that would make it unenforceable so I believe by other caggers on here.

[B3rty]

The CPR Letter is worth adding in bold print at the top.

 

This is not a defence but a request for information under Civil Proceedure Rules

[The_Grumlin]

claimant claims the sum of £***** together with interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984

 

I didn't think they could claim this with a regulated agreement.

[Shawn0109]

I didn't think they could claim this with a regulated agreement.

 

If they wanted to they can, unless you defend it.

[creditcardmug]

I didn't think they could claim this with a regulated agreement.

 

Correct they cant, but doesnt stop them trying

 

 

S69 interest is interest which is added to the principal sum under the County Courts Act 1984 S69

 

why arent they entitled to it? because its a regulated agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order 1991 (No. 1184 (L. 12)) section 2(3) states they are not entitled to it!!

 

[stitchedup]

Thanks for the advice so far, so do I ask them in the CPR for the agreement, default and assignment? as none of these are mentioned in their claim?

 

Thanks

[supasnooper]

Thanks for the advice so far, so do I ask them in the CPR for the agreement, default and assignment? as none of these are mentioned in their claim?

 

Thanks

 

 

Hi there Stitchedup,

 

You're getting good advice here from Shawn0109 and CCM.

 

 

Yes, you are asking for the agreement, default notice, termination notice and the assignment notice. (no's 1 - 4)

 

Just amend the CPR31.14 letter as posted by S0109 to suit your needs, do NOT sign it, print off two copies, keep one for yourself and then fire off the other copy to Cabot using Royal Mail Recorded Delivery service.

[muscat329]

Regarding the POC. The Cabot companies are structured in a way for their own benefit. In my opinion the "Cabot Financial Group" is a meaningless statement. A group of companies have some common shareholding and are allowed to submit group accounts for tax and capital gains purposes. But the companies within the group are separate legal entities.

 

I presume the debt was purchased by Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd, but you are being chased by Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd. Surely there is scope in attacking this arrangement. Your CCA will allow the OC to pass your data onto the new owner, C (UK) Ltd, but your data is with C(Europe) Ltd. Is this a breach of the Data Protection Act?

 

My NoA from my OC stated that C(UK) had bought the debt , but that I must pay C(Europe) Ltd! I,ve told them to "bog off" There is too much of a conflict of interest between the 2 companies. What would happen if you paid C(Europe) Ltd but they went into voluntary liquidation before they paid C(UK) Ltd anything. In theory you still owe C(UK) Ltd all you,ve paid.

 

Who is your claimant? If it is C(UK) Ltd, I bet the paperwork is from C(Europe) Ltd. Can we fight this arrangement?

 

regards,

 

Muscat

[stitchedup]

Thanks for the help thus far.........

 

The Claimant is Cabot Financial UK but the address for sending docs is simply Cabot Financial po box 250.

 

So am I correct in thinking they are not entitled to seek interest on the account?

 

This sounds messy already, probably a tactic to confuse?

Edited February 1, 2009 by stitchedup
typo

[Shawn0109]

Just get that letter sent out to them they have to by law send you everything you have asked for in the CPR Request, keep us updated on your progress and remeber and I know this is easy for me to say try not to worry and relax.

[stitchedup]

Cheers Shawn, and to be honest I'm not worried at all

[Shawn0109]

Good that what I want to hear and remeber send the letter recorded delivery so you have proof that you sent it and do not sign it and you're welcome.

[42man]

Keep a heads up on the timescales....!! remember you have to acknowledge the claim within 14 days of the date on the claim form, then you get qa further 14+3 days in which to submit a defence....

[stitchedup]

42Man, I acknowledged the claim on the date of receipt, so no problems there. I have marked calender etc, so as not to miss any deadlines. Thanks

[stitchedup]

As expected I have had no reply from Cabot ref my CPR request, I now need to submit a holding defence, I wish to email it via MCOL Northampton, can anyone advise of the email addy I should use, I tried submitting it online but had too many lines