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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Advice re: NatWest


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I would be very grateful for your help and advice. I have been lurking on this site for some time now but nobody seems to have had anything like the following experience so your help and advice would very welcome.

In November my OH informed me that he had run up unsecured debts of £26,000. We got in touch with CCCS and were going down the DMP route. However I decided (I wonder now if it was against my better judgement) to try and sort these debts out ourselves and so far have kept the wolves at bay apart from NatWest. In all fairness there were some dodgy messages from NatWest that I received on the phone but as ‘I knew’ he didn’t have an account with them I thought they were in the ‘You’ve won a holiday’ league and ignored them and didn’t even tell him about them.

Anyway I digress.

With the advice of the CCCS he wrote to his creditors the template letter saying that he was having some difficulty paying etc but received no response from NatWest.

In the meantime he revealed 2 letters that had previously been written from Triton (I think he was letting me digest things slowly!).

He then CCA’d Triton and SAR’d NatWest. At the same time he also wrote another letter to NW asking for confirmation that they had passed this account to Triton. He also enclosed a cheque from myself as a gesture of goodwill.

Green and Co then got in touch and he sent them off with a flea in their ear as at that time no CCA received. Incidentally, although this letter was clearly addressed to Green, it was intercepted by Credit Management Services who didn’t know what he was talking about and wanted further information. Well of course they wouldn’t know what he was talking about as he has never had any contact with or from them – so sent them a terse letter and asked them to forward enclosed envelope to Green & Co.

NatWest then responded with the CCA, which as it was only taken out in June 07 I presume it is enforceable although I am not certain the signature box has not been tampered with! However it has always been our intention to pay back the debt as best we can. At the same time NW confirmed that the debt had been passed to Triton.

He then wrote to Triton stating that if we went down the DMP route they would only get approximately £x a month and it would take approximately 8 years to pay off the loan and offered a F&F settlement of approximately 40% which was slightly more than the amount after 8 years.

Within 6 days of NW saying that the debt had been passed to Triton he then received a letter from Newman stating that the account had been passed to them.

He responded by saying ‘prove it’.

In the meantime no SAR info received from NW and 40 days well and truly passed.

He then sent a further letter to NW stating that they had not complied with ‘my’ SAR request (enclosed original request) and gave them a further 7 days or “I would inform the ICO and would consider taking legal action”.

Received a letter back asking for £10 and saying “When we have received your payment we will be happy to proceed with your request”. The cheque for £10.00 had already been debited to my account.

He therefore wrote to them and informed them of this and also said that he had informed the ICO – which he did. He then said they had 7 days or ‘I’ would seek a Court Order”.

In the meantime Newmans seem to have gone quiet as he told them he was awaiting SAR information – but who knows as the letters keep crossing.

He has now received a letter saying “I wasn’t aware that you have written before as your original letter was not received” – I have electronic proof of receipt. It also goes on to say “I therefore ask that you cancel your original cheque as it has been lost in the postal system (presumably theirs) and send a new one direct to me”. Then “Once I have received this cheque I will be able to commence your application”.

He obviously can and will write back to say that they have already cashed the cheque (which he stated in his letter before and the date on which it was debited).

What I am asking is do ‘we’ now go down the road of seeking a Court Order? I really feel that NW are giving him the run-a-round and heaven forbid but I wonder if there is a hidden agenda or are they just totally incompetent?!

Sorry it is so longwinded but hopefully you will get the picture and somebody will be able to advise us as to what to do next or what might be coming next.

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I would be very grateful for your help and advice. I have been lurking on this site for some time now but nobody seems to have had anything like the following experience so your help and advice would very welcome.

 

In November my OH informed me that he had run up unsecured debts of £26,000. We got in touch with CCCS and were going down the DMP route. However I decided (I wonder now if it was against my better judgement) to try and sort these debts out ourselves and so far have kept the wolves at bay apart from NatWest. In all fairness there were some dodgy messages from NatWest that I received on the phone but as ‘I knew’ he didn’t have an account with them I thought they were in the ‘You’ve won a holiday’ league and ignored them and didn’t even tell him about them.

 

Anyway I digress.

 

With the advice of the CCCS he wrote to his creditors the template letter saying that he was having some difficulty paying etc but received no response from NatWest.

 

In the meantime he revealed 2 letters that had previously been written from Triton (I think he was letting me digest things slowly!).

Dealt with Triton, they are not very clever.

He then CCA’d Triton and SAR’d NatWest. At the same time he also wrote another letter to NW asking for confirmation that they had passed this account to Triton. He also enclosed a cheque from myself as a gesture of goodwill.

 

Green and Co then got in touch and he sent them off with a flea in their ear as at that time no CCA received. Incidentally, although this letter was clearly addressed to Green, it was intercepted by Credit Management Services who didn’t know what he was talking about and wanted further information. Well of course they wouldn’t know what he was talking about as he has never had any contact with or from them – so sent them a terse letter and asked them to forward enclosed envelope to Green & Co.

Green and Co usually give up ever so easily. Generally people get one or two letters from them before they give up and move on.

NatWest then responded with the CCA, which as it was only taken out in June 07 I presume it is enforceable although I am not certain the signature box has not been tampered with! However it has always been our intention to pay back the debt as best we can. At the same time NW confirmed that the debt had been passed to Triton.

It's after April 07 which makes a difference to potential 'unenforceability' I'm afraid but could still be worth looking at. Can you post it up minus personal details? Or are you really of a mind to pay it back either way. No judgement. It's your debt and your decision.

He then wrote to Triton stating that if we went down the DMP route they would only get approximately £x a month and it would take approximately 8 years to pay off the loan and offered a F&F settlement of approximately 40% which was slightly more than the amount after 8 years.

 

Within 6 days of NW saying that the debt had been passed to Triton he then received a letter from Newman stating that the account had been passed to them.

Going round the houses a bit isn't it.

He responded by saying ‘prove it’.

 

In the meantime no SAR info received from NW and 40 days well and truly passed.

 

He then sent a further letter to NW stating that they had not complied with ‘my’ SAR request (enclosed original request) and gave them a further 7 days or “I would inform the ICO and would consider taking legal action”.

 

Received a letter back asking for £10 and saying “When we have received your payment we will be happy to proceed with your request”. The cheque for £10.00 had already been debited to my account.

 

He therefore wrote to them and informed them of this and also said that he had informed the ICO – which he did. He then said they had 7 days or ‘I’ would seek a Court Order”.

 

In the meantime Newmans seem to have gone quiet as he told them he was awaiting SAR information – but who knows as the letters keep crossing.

 

He has now received a letter saying “I wasn’t aware that you have written before as your original letter was not received” – I have electronic proof of receipt. It also goes on to say “I therefore ask that you cancel your original cheque as it has been lost in the postal system (presumably theirs) and send a new one direct to me”. Then “Once I have received this cheque I will be able to commence your application”.

What a joke. They have failed to provide the information even after cashing and accepting that request.

He obviously can and will write back to say that they have already cashed the cheque (which he stated in his letter before and the date on which it was debited).

 

What I am asking is do ‘we’ now go down the road of seeking a Court Order? I really feel that NW are giving him the run-a-round and heaven forbid but I wonder if there is a hidden agenda or are they just totally incompetent?! (The last one)

 

Sorry it is so longwinded but hopefully you will get the picture and somebody will be able to advise us as to what to do next or what might be coming next.

 

I would deal with NW only from now on as they (sound like) are still the owners of the account.

 

You've complained to the ICO about the lack of SAR which is good.

 

Depends what your objectives are. If you really wanted to get a F&F sorted all you can do is keep asking.

 

Have you been to CAB or Trading standards?

 

How many different creditors and who with and have you CCA'd anyone else?

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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Hi Davey77

 

Thank you very much for your response. I've just been reading your thread - it seems you've been through, and going through, the mill and for so long!

 

To update you and answer your questions.

 

2 months after original SAR request to NW received copy statements, T&Cs & Contract/Agreement only. They said they had no correspondence. However as I had written to them (am dealing with everything on OH's behalf although everything goes as if from him) stated that they had not complied with my request. Then received copies of correspondence. They have still not complied because I also asked for details of 3rd parties etc., and so have chased them up for that - still await a response. In that letter I have asked who at NW is dealing with account.

 

Newman's on his back again with threat of doorstep visit so bog off letter sent to them. Luckily they seem to have a very old telephone number and so are unable to contact us by phone.

 

In answer to your questions:

 

Did visit CAB but didn't find them of much help but I will say CCCS were great although I thought we could manage and didn't want to go down DMP route.

 

Haven't contacted TS either.

 

Creditors = 7, total debt approximately £26,000.

 

As I managed to get accounts back on track I didn't CCA them but SAR'd them instead.

 

Cap 1 CC responded with unenforceable agreement (no prescibed terms) and as OH has paid back very slighty less than he borrowed, the amount he owes is therefore purely interest and the penalty charges outweigh the 'slightly less' I have written to them asking if they would write off the debt and reduce balance to zero. That was just under a week ago so not expectng a response yet. Included in the SAR I asked for details regarding his loan with them but no response to that yet.

 

Response to Barclaycard SAR was statements only and 'This information we have enclosed relating to this account is all we have'. He has actually paid off more than he has borrowed so I was thinking of going down the same route as Cap 1.

 

Following the SAR to MBNA I have today received their response which is statements etc and what I am sure is an unenforceable agreement as it is an application form. I haven't calculated what he's borrowed and paid back on that yet or what constistutes as penalty charges.

 

The other CC, loan, overdraft etc. is linked with his business and personal bank account and our joint account so have done nothing about them yet until we put into place other accounts.

 

Our objective is to get out of debt as quickly and 'fairly' as possible.

 

Do you think I am going along the right lines?

 

With regard to NW I have no conscience as they have never actually spoken to OH or contacted him by letter and they passed the debt on prior to the CC payment date, albeit he was behind, but the good news is that they have not added interested.

 

I'll start scanning and see if I can upload the CCA from NW.

 

Any help or advice would be greatly received.

 

Mx

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Hi Davey77

 

Thank you very much for your response. I've just been reading your thread - it seems you've been through, and going through, the mill and for so long!

..so my advice therefore to anyone dealing with debt is to hit hard and fast. Otherwise it will drag out for ages.

 

To update you and answer your questions.

 

2 months after original SAR request to NW received copy statements, T&Cs & Contract/Agreement only. They said they had no correspondence. However as I had written to them (am dealing with everything on OH's behalf although everything goes as if from him) stated that they had not complied with my request. Then received copies of correspondence. They have still not complied because I also asked for details of 3rd parties etc., and so have chased them up for that - still await a response. In that letter I have asked who at NW is dealing with account.

Sounds like you are on top on that.

 

Newman's on his back again with threat of doorstep visit so bog off letter sent to them. Luckily they seem to have a very old telephone number and so are unable to contact us by phone.

 

In answer to your questions:

 

Did visit CAB but didn't find them of much help but I will say CCCS were great although I thought we could manage and didn't want to go down DMP route.

CAB are good/bad depending where you live and the person you get to talk to. Some have had great help from them. Others have been let down. You could try another town or someone else in the same office (higher up) if possible. Just make sure it's a CAB with a specialist Debt section.

 

Haven't contacted TS either.

I would send your local TS a formal complaint in writing regarding any aspects of CCA non compliance and/or OFT Debt Collection Guidance. Keep the pressure on them and don't let them fob you off. (They are not keen on investigating Creditors but it IS their duty to do so upon a complaint from a consumer. (Can't hurt to try.)

 

Creditors = 7, total debt approximately £26,000.

I would start individual threads in the related forum (Barclays in the Barclays forum etc) for the accounts you want to do something about.

Then people will stop by and give their thoughts.

 

As I managed to get accounts back on track I didn't CCA them but SAR'd them instead.

Anyone you haven't CCA'd i would do so as a prudent step to see what they have.

 

Cap 1 CC responded with unenforceable agreement (no prescibed terms) and as OH has paid back very slighty less than he borrowed, the amount he owes is therefore purely interest and the penalty charges outweigh the 'slightly less' I have written to them asking if they would write off the debt and reduce balance to zero. That was just under a week ago so not expectng a response yet. Included in the SAR I asked for details regarding his loan with them but no response to that yet.

They will respond with a 'no' to the write off i am sure. So starting a thread and posting the agreement up should give you pointers on how to reply to that (depending on the aspects that make the agreement invalid.)

 

Response to Barclaycard SAR was statements only and 'This information we have enclosed relating to this account is all we have'. He has actually paid off more than he has borrowed so I was thinking of going down the same route as Cap 1.

Yes. Get the agreement from them then you will know where you stand.

 

Following the SAR to MBNA I have today received their response which is statements etc and what I am sure is an unenforceable agreement as it is an application form. I haven't calculated what he's borrowed and paid back on that yet or what constistutes as penalty charges.

As you know. Any incomplete reply to a S.A.R deserves a complaint to the ICO. Again, post the agreement (minus personal details) on a new thread and I'm sure lots of folks will be by to give their opinions.

 

The other CC, loan, overdraft etc. is linked with his business and personal bank account and our joint account so have done nothing about them yet until we put into place other accounts.

 

Our objective is to get out of debt as quickly and 'fairly' as possible.

99% of people that come to this site wanted to be fair but have been forced to learn about (and exercise) their rights due to the unfair and aggressive stance Creditors take with anyone they deem 'owes them'.

It shouldn't have to be the case but the only way to fight fire is with fire and the only way to get treated fairly and respectfully is to back the Creditor into a corner. (Be that with CCA compliance or any other method.) 2 years battling and one success tells me so, and that success only happened when Cap1 were two days away from a Court hearing i instigated.

 

Do you think I am going along the right lines?

Looks like you have done a lot already for sure.

 

With regard to NW I have no conscience as they have never actually spoken to OH or contacted him by letter and they passed the debt on prior to the CC payment date, albeit he was behind, but the good news is that they have not added interested.

 

I'll start scanning and see if I can upload the CCA from NW.

 

Any help or advice would be greatly received.

 

Mx

 

Sure get the starts started and agreements up. Get CCAs to anyone who hasn't been sent on if applicable, and complain to TS. That should get you started and will get people noticing your threads and commenting. ;)

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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I take it you have you removed the debtors and lenders signature from these.

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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Ah ok. There is a big different between one or another although in this case that may not even be true.

 

Pre April 07 agreements missing a Debtors signature would give you cause for an argument but this one is June 07 so you could be out of luck there.

 

Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreements executed before that date.

 

Without a Lenders signature you can argue it is Improperly Executed but that's not as strong an argument. (Judge is most likely to say 'so what, you signed it and agreed'. etc)

 

I hope others with more expert knowledge can come along to advise on this one.

 

Apart from that all i can suggest is you ask for the other parts to the agreement (unless you already have other pages) as the bottom of the pages refers to other pages and you are entitled to all parts of the agreement.

You have pages 3,4,5,6 out of 9.

 

78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 sets out clearly what is required to comply with a CCA request: “shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it”.

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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You could argue the finer details as well (although would need others input before you start firing off letters.)

 

2nd page:

 

Summary of your application

 

Credit card agreement in Principle and credit agreement

 

3rd page:

 

Name and address of lender. No name and address of customer?

 

4th page:

 

3 KEY FINANCIAL INFORMATION

3A "please refer to general condition 6 for details". (See below)

 

5th Page:

 

Bottom of page:

 

"The accompanying General Conditions can be found in the separate booklet provided along with this part of the agreement."

 

78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974: “shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it”.

 

Therefore, IMO, i would argue that mentioning the General Conditions within the agreement itself makes those conditions part of the agreement and a document you are entitled to see.

 

That's the way i look at it. Hope others can chip in tho.

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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Many thanks for that. NW have been CCA'd and SAR'd and in all 3 copies they have sent me of the above attachments pages 1 & 2 and 7-9 are missing. I shall get on and request them.

 

I would also welcome any comments on the signature box (Fifth page). I have not tampered with that in any way. Does anybody see what I might see?

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ermm no, being dense but can't see it. Doesn't seem to be anywhere for the Lender to execute the agreement by signing it...

 

You said no lenders signature so there was yours but you removed it for posting?

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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Yes, OH's signature removed. No you're not being dense. I've missed loads of things you've pointed out and I've read and reread the darned thing over and over again. The x showing where to sign does not seem to overlap the box - I would have thought it might!

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Yes, OH's signature removed. No you're not being dense. I've missed loads of things you've pointed out and I've read and reread the darned thing over and over again. The x showing where to sign does not seem to overlap the box - I would have thought it might!

 

Ah yes i see what you mean. They could argue that is an arrow and not an X perhaps but it does look a little odd. Had thought you had cut it in half when removing the signature originally.

 

Worth keeping an eye on that and see if they ever send you anything different. Has been known for creditors to tamper with documents before now that's for sure!

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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So to recap:

 

I request missing info from NW as outlined in post 10.

 

I notify TS of 'unfair practices'.

 

And presumably ought to update ICO as to the fact I am still missing relevant info from NW that I asked for in SAR.

 

With respect to other accounts I CCA them - even though I've asked for Agreement in SAR?

 

Thank you again for your input.

 

Mx

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Sounds like you are on top of things there then. But, YES to all those.

 

Yes CCA all, even if you have S.A.R'd them already. S.A.R gives them 40 days and has different implications on the account should they fail to respond (or respond incompletely).

 

A CCA gives grounds for you to withhold payment, put the account in dispute etc should they fail to provide the agreement/s with the 12 + 2 days. So always worth doing that if only for those reasons alone (let alone to see what you get back in response.)

 

Don't sign anything and send recorded as i'm sure you know. ;)

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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TS complaint once (if) they fail to send any agreement/s within the allotted timeframe. (And keep pushing TS on the matter - they can often be difficult in standing up for consumers until consumers start reminding them that 'it is their job' to do so.)

  • Haha 1

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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