HFO/ Turnbull Rutherford and Cabot Financial help needed

[seachan1]

Hi All

I would like to thank in advance anyone who takes the time to review my situation. Some of the advice I have read on the forum is outstanding. I will be brief.

 

I mounted up debts of around £40k on three credit cards and in 2006 started to default. We sold our house and moved into rented. We didn't quite have enough spare cash to clear all our debts. Nothing has changed.

 

Have been through the usual constant calls etc.

 

Two of the cards are still being chased and these have fallen into well-known hands: HFO/ Turnbull Rutherford and Cabot Financial. I have read much about both on these threads.

 

The first card/ debt is being handled by Rutherford on behalf of HFO. I first sent HFO a letter asking for the original credit agreement in 2007. Got nothing.

 

It is now with Rutherford. They are now threatening court. I have just sent them a letter and got a reply from HFO saying I need to contact Citicard (the original lender) for any copies and there will be a £10 charge.

 

So I sent a standard letter from the templates to Rutherford with a £1 postal order demanding under the cca to have my agreement. They will receive that on Monday. It went recorded delivery.

 

Your advice on this will be gratefully received. Is the onus on me to get the agreement from Citi? Or does the fact that HFO constantly ducks responsibility signify that they have nothing and are just blustering?

 

The second card is now with Cabot. It was originally from Morgan Stanley and then Goldfish. I asked for the agreement and received a very poor photocopy of what looks like an application form although it does say credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Agreement aCT 1974 at the top. My signature is on it.

 

If this is the agreement then I am content to enter into negotiations to repay the debt. I have never had any problem with paying back a debt but this has become a game and I am happy to play it until I am in a corner. I will do what I can to get the best deal possible.

 

A lot of interest and charges have been applied to the account in the last two and a half years but i have very little paperwork as I buried my head in the sand a lot of the time.

 

Thank you all for your time

[silverfox1961]

Hi Seachan'

Glad you've been able to have a good look around the forum. You've picked up lots of good information already.

Re Rutherford. If they don't hold a copy of your agreement then it's their responsibility to get it from citi. The reason you are not getting an agreement is because citi are one of the worst for keeping paperwork.

If they try to fob you off with the statement that you have to go to the OC, you can tell them where to go.

 

If at all possible, can you post up the agreement you already have and let the bods here have a look. A very good chance it will be unenforceable.

If you need help in posting, just shout.

 

fox

[seachan1]

Hi Silverfox1961

You are very kind. Thank you. How do I insert/ attach the image? I have tried attaching but it comes up with errors and inserting requires a url

In the case of HFO/ Turnbull - what do i do next? If they take me to court what is my defence?

 

Thanks again

[davey77]

You can use Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

 

Up load to there then add the link here.

[silverfox1961]

Here is something I stole off a very furry friend:

 

It seems tricky at first, but is fairly simple really.

 

1, Scan your DCA letter/whatever you want to show on the forum.

Ideal setting is 100dpi as it's closest to computer monitor display resolution.

 

2, Save the scanned image as a jpeg

Step 2.5 Edit out any personal information, barcodes or any other comments, notes or markings around the edge of the document. Never change the original document you received

2.5, Load the saved image into MS Paint. (comes free with Windows.) Use the pain brush or spray can to remove/paint over any personal info, such as name, account number, address, etc. Also remove any barcodes, as some DCAs may be able to identify you from these.

 

3, Create an account on Photobucket.

 

4, Once you have a Photobucket account, you'll find on the main webpage little box where you can upload photos. Click the "upload image" box and then tell it where on your hard disk you saved your scanned jpeg. It will then upload the image to Photobucket and it will show you thumbnails of the images you have uploaded. Under each image there are links that you can copy and paste.

 

5, Copy the IMG link below the image you want to put on the forum. Then reply to thread on CAG. Right click with the mouse and select "paste" from the little menu that pops up.

 

6, You'll then get some text appear in your message that looks a bit like this.

 

 

When you submit the reply, the text will change into the image you uploaded onto photobucket. The text you copied and pasted is just the information the forum needs, so it knows where to find your photo and display it in your message.

 

 

Courtesy of Fuzzybobble

 

 

That should help you.

 

fox

[seachan1]

Hi

Here's the link:

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

[silverfox1961]

In the case of HFO/ Turnbull - what do i do next? If they take me to court what is my defence?

 

Thanks again

 

All of the letters you get will say "May" or "Could". this is nothing like "Will"

 

The only time you need get worried is if they send you a statutory demand and they shouldn't do that if they don't have a valid agreement and if they are silly enough to try it, no agreement is an absolute defence.

 

We'll cross that bridge if we come to it.

 

fox

[silverfox1961]

Hi

Here's the link:

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

 

 

Methinks alittle more practice, you'll get it in the end:D:D

[seachan1]

try this:

 

morganstanley.jpg picture by seachan1 - Photobucket

[seachan1]

and this:

 

morganstanley2.jpg picture by seachan1 - Photobucket

[silverfox1961]

I can't comment as it's illegible to my ageing eyes

 

I would wait until someone with better eyes that mine as a look but as far as I'm concerned they haven't complied as the agreement has to be legible.

Can you see if it has some prescribed terms on it I.E

APR

Credit limit (or a statement saying they will set the credit limit)

repayment terms

penalty charges.

 

fox

[seachan1]

I can't make anything out, like you. I was going to write back asking for a better copy but thought I'd get advice first. I can't see any credit limits etc. What do you think I should do?

 

Seachan

 

Thanks, Fox, I am very grateful for your time

[silverfox1961]

Thank the lord for that. I thought my eyes had gone

 

I've just put this letter on another thread but you can use it too.

I stole it so no credit to me.

just click the link.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/172071-letter-co-solicitors.html#post1856406

 

You may have to edit it to suit your needs but in my opinion, it's brilliant.

 

fox

[seachan1]

thanks fox, will send it. It says it encloses a copy of the act - where can I get that?

[silverfox1961]

What the letter is stating is that the original request is enclosed not the act itself. I think that runs to about 150 pages.

You can of course edit any bits you don't feel are relevant.

 

fox

[seachan1]

Fox

Here is the text of the original letter I sent to Cabot:

 

I am writing in connection with Cabot reference no: xxxxxxx Thank you for your letter of 13th June concerning an outstanding debt.

As I am sure you will understand in these times of identity theft and fraud before I can correspond or even discuss the above matter with you I will need to have a verified copy of any original agreement sent to me at the above address.

I trust in your capacity as senior recoveries manager that you will be able to arrange such a copy and I look forward to receiving it forthwith.

 

Many thanks for your cooperation in this matter

 

Yours sincerely

 

I didn't actually send a request for a true copy etc. Can I still send the letter you directed me to? Or do I need to send that now, first

 

Seachan

[silverfox1961]

I can't see a problem with incorporating that letter into the other one. it saves sending a separate letter although they will either ignore you or reply saying the have already complied and won't budge on the issue.

 

fox

[seachan1]

That's interesting. i will send the letter and see what happens.

Thank you so much

[42man]

If they continue to threaten legal action and are in default of your request then send this recorded

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I write in response to your letter dated XXXXX

 

Your letter is incorrect and frivolous, you are fully aware of legally valid reasons why no payment has been made on this account, namely that the agreement which underpins this account has not been supplied despite a perfectly valid request and furthermore, it is suggested that notwithstanding the failure to supply a copy, the agreement itself is improperly executed, devoid of all prescribed terms and deficient in respect of detail relating to APR, total charge for credit and statements of rights ,remedies and protections as required by schedules 1,2 and 6 Consumer Credit Agreements Regulations 1983

 

Therefore the agreement as outlined in section 65 (1) Consumer Credit Act must be laid before the court to be granted an enforcement order before any further action can be taken

 

It is my view that the court would not grant such an order due to the deficiencies that I have outlined within the agreement, further more this has already been raised with (name of original creditor) yet the absence of any documents disproving my points itself speaks volumes

 

Therefore, I would indeed welcome the opportunity to place this before the court. furthermore should you proceed with the threats to issue a court claim I will make an immediate application to have it set aside for the grounds outlined above, also I shall refer the judge to this letter when the matter of costs falls due

 

I trust this outlines my position clearly enough for you

[seachan1]

Hi guys

I have just discovered on another photocopy from Cabot, which was much smaller, that there is a bar code on the side and beside that the words: application form.

 

Here is the text of their letter to me:

Dear x

 

Your query

 

We have acquired the original application form from X relating to the account and have enclosed a copy for your attention.

If you now recall this account as belonging to yourself, it is important that you contact us as a matter of urgency in order to discuss your payment arrangements.

 

Alternatively, if you still dispute ownership of the acount please contact us on the above number to discuss the matter further.

 

etc

 

Given that what they sent me is an application form and they mention that the account is in dispute do you have any alternative advice?

 

Thank you in advance

[davey77]

They are playing games. They are using the word 'dispute' to make you feel you have a chance of explaining the situation and entice you to ring. Thereby they will try to bully you in to a payment. Don't ring of course.

 

What they have sent is not an agreement, therefore the usual account in dispute, invalid agreement letter is appropriate along the lines of 42man's above.

 

By the way, you need to reload post 9. Looks like personal details showing: account number down the side and sort code on the right?

[seachan1]

Thanks Davey77.

I have removed the pic and will replace - thanks. Will also send the letter. I am grateful for your help and the help of the forum.

 

I would also like to know more about how I can help in the future. I am very happy to make a donation in due course. I think the speed and nature of the advice on here is remarkable

 

Best wishes for now

[davey77]

You help by getting yourself out of debt and learning as you go. (Satisfaction enough for many knowing the uncaring financial institutions have lost out, yet again.)

 

Get a few posts under your belt and start chipping in when you feel you have the experience. Specialise in one particular area. Some people who have had, and successfully dealt with, harassment by telephone have some great letters and info at their disposal and can direct those suffering the same problems to the correct bodies to complain to. Others are knowledgeable about Agreements or Default Notices or the Court process.

What ever you eventually feel you have the most understanding of, as it's a big subject.

[seachan1]

Hi guys

I am concerned with on-going sagas concerning two DCA'a that I may have unwittingly put myself at risk of forgery by sending letters with my signature on them.

I have asked both of them for the CCA, sent recorded etc, without a signature but previous letters have had my signature.

I have read on these superb pages that DCA's will pull any trick. Is this really a reality?

 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts

[cerberusalert]

It has been alleged that certain unscupulous DCAs have used Photoshop nefariously in the past. But if their expertise with copy & paste is on a par with the rest of their talents, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Besides, there are tell tale signs when a document has been tampered with + in the event of any court action, the original has to be produced anyway.