How credit cards & bank loans REALLY work - Learn, & this will change your whole life!!

[diddydicky]

is it not the case in your point one that banks are obliged only to keep a certain percentage of deposits for return on demand and not the whole lot?

 

thats the very reason why it is possible to get a "run on the bank" if all the deposits were demanded at the same time to be returned

[ajax95]

Well ... it happens by 'magic'. The Bank/Building Society uses 'magic'.

 

 

And that's the same way they can magic a reason to extend your overdraft/approve your loan request one day and then magic another reason to refuse it that next...

[nuke em]

is it not the case in your point one that banks are obliged only to keep a certain percentage of deposits for return on demand and not the whole lot?

 

thats the very reason why it is possible to get a "run on the bank" if all the deposits were demanded at the same time to be returned

 

correctamundo, that's why they are in deep S@@t, most UK Clearing banks are "operating on 40 to 60 :1 ratios

[nuke em]

And that's the same way they can magic a reason to extend your overdraft/approve your loan request one day and then magic another reason to refuse it that next...

 

there you go, another truth!

 

its magic!

[ajax95]

there you go, another truth!

 

its magic!

 

.. or when your account mager says they can save you a shedload in interest only to the turn round and say their hands are tied.

 

plus ca change

[diddydicky]

correctamundo, that's why they are in deep S@@t, most UK Clearing banks are "operating on 40 to 60 :1 ratios

 

but surely nuke, if the point one is not true, as you have just conceded, then the rest of it is a baseless argument!!

 

you cant state an untruth as a fact and then base the whole argument upon it surely!

[Stornoway]

but surely nuke, if the point one is not true, as you have just conceded, then the rest of it is a baseless argument!!

 

you cant state an untruth as a fact and then base the whole argument upon it surely!

 

DD - Why should Nuke Em let a few truths get in the way of his arguments. I had given up on this thread but its actually good entertainment.

[diddydicky]

DD - Why should Nuke Em let a few truths get in the way of his arguments. I had given up on this thread but its actually good entertainment.

 

lol

[nuke em]

but surely nuke, if the point one is not true, as you have just conceded, then the rest of it is a baseless argument!!

 

you cant state an untruth as a fact and then base the whole argument upon it surely!

 

ok dicky, firstly dont call me Shirley, its not my name. secondly what's your take then on how "money" is created ?

 

even a blind man can see that what we use is just paper, backed by nothing at all!

[nuke em]

DD - Why should Nuke Em let a few truths get in the way of his arguments. I had given up on this thread but its actually good entertainment.

 

Stornaway , you have already been outed as working/being involved/were involved with the financial/legal Sector....and unless you/are were at the very top of that/those organisations ( which I very much doubt because why would you be on here?) its no surprise that, ,as evidenced by your earlier posts that you don't understand it and still have not taken the time to research it . Most people in financial (and legal) services don't get it either, why should they, they just go to work every day and do their job. 99.5% of bank employees don't understand for the same reason. That's the point, it's hidden in plain view from the masses. A sleight of hand and a wicked one at that!

And if they dont get it, what chance has the average man in the street got? the plumber, the baker, the gardener etc?

 

The most powerful thing you have, financially speaking, is your signature. Because when you sign a financial document it becomes a debt instrument and bingo you just created the "money" ( out of thin air) at that point. It just became "borrowed" it into circulation.

 

97% of all "money" is created as debt, that's why we have what is called a "debt based" economy. "Money" is borrowed into existence.

 

The GDP of the UK is approx £1.5 Trillion yet there are less than £1 Billion in physical banknotes and coins in circulation. Where is the rest of the "money" ?

 

why it's the Mortgage notes, credit cards slips, loan docs, promissory notes, etc of course . its all just "paper", backed by nothing of value.

Remember we went off the Gold standard in the 1930's. Also be aware that Gold can't be printed, it has to be mined and that takes a lot of sweat & EFFORT. - it has VALUE . Effort put in = value taken out

 

Did you know for example that our country is already bankrupt ( it has been since 1869) and that we are trading in bankruptcy under chapter 11 protections, & that our Gov is in fact a Corporation ( check it out for yourself, they have a listing on Dun & Bradstreet) so are our MP's, The Police, the Court system. ( check out Northampton Bulk Court Centre as another example of a legal fiction Corporation or Your local Police Authority), the DVLA, The FSA etc etc. These are all private for profit Corporations. Were you aware for example that Alistair Darling is a Corporation who also DBA "the Labour Party" ?

 

(Check out John James Harris's videos regarding Corporations that most people think are UK Gov "departments")

 

 

We are all on these debt forum(s) ( apart from the trolls) because we all played the game, (of course without knowing the rules of the game, and even knowing we were in a game) and have lost out to a greater or lesser extent.

 

Don't take my word for any of this,don't take anyone's word for it, i didnt when i discovered this, i was just like you, in denial, making jokes about it, then i stopped making jokes after i started working on it, by researching the what if's ?, could this be? etc. just by doing MY OWN research.

 

Please, don't just simply dismiss this out of hand. There is no right or wrong here , just the "what is actually happening" and the stage managed perceptions ( Google "the Frankfurt School" to get a handle on how perceptions are managed)

Do you own research, its all out there now, thanks to the internet,

 

The truth will set you free it could even put you on the path to be free of " your debt" !

[Bill Shidding]

Hi guys

 

This subject is the "twist of the knife" for debtors, and the most complicated to initially understand.

Which is why I had to watch the films "money as debt" on yout#be.

 

My own way of describing the "trick" to doubting friends/family/tramps and innocent bystanders is;

 

When the Gov. "lent £57 Billion" to the banks, how many security vans did they use to deliver the cash?

 

And

 

When the banks "balance" the books at the end of the day, where does all the money get physically transferred from bank Z Ltd to bank A Ltd?

(and how come these vans have never been robbed?)

 

Of course, the reasons are that there was no "money" lent by Gov, just security. There is no fleet of security vans moving money between banks because its moved electronically. Nobody can move anything electronically except information. The "money" is make believe, and so is your debt.

 

If you can move a physical object electronically, please email me a real ten pound note (no photocopies, only 1 application per household!), I will return it + 100% interest

 

I know those examples are too simple, I find it creates a spark of interest which leads to the fire of realisation.

Its just a shame its legal.

 

Bill

[nuke em]

All valid points, well made

 

i like the "how many security vans" image !

[diddydicky]

All valid points, well made

 

i like the "how many security vans" image !

 

the thing is shurl'

 

you say the banks don't move the money

 

so when i go to the bank to draw out 2000 its not real- it is an electronic image!!

 

Now whilst i accept that just like a pound note is not REAL money (it was a piece of paper invented to avoid having to carry 3 pigs and a goat around to barter with)

 

if we scrap the system we have - what is your masterplan going to replace it with?

 

are we all going to have lorry loads of pigs sheep goats and cattle delivered from our employers every Friday!

 

Are the tills in boots big enough to get half a pig into them!

[banker_rhymes_with]

if we scrap the system we have - what is your masterplan going to replace it with?

Keep the basic system, but phase out Money created as Debt, and bring in Debt-Free Money in its place.

 

Oh...and turn 98% of bankers into soap and low grade fertilizer, and then get some new Politicians.

 

Not necessarily in that order.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[diddydicky]

Keep the basic system, but phase out Money created as Debt, and bring in Debt-Free Money in its place.

 

Oh...and turn 98% of bankers into soap and low grade fertilizer, and then get some new Politicians.

 

Not necessarily in that order.

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

ahhhhhhhhh yes now i see it-

 

would that be before i go down the garden to pick up the rocking horse sh*t or after!! (LOL)

[nuke em]

the thing is shurl'

 

you say the banks don't move the money

 

so when i go to the bank to draw out 2000 its not real- it is an electronic image!!

 

Now whilst i accept that just like a pound note is not REAL money (it was a piece of paper invented to avoid having to carry 3 pigs and a goat around to barter with)

 

if we scrap the system we have - what is your masterplan going to replace it with?

 

are we all going to have lorry loads of pigs sheep goats and cattle delivered from our employers every Friday!

 

Are the tills in boots big enough to get half a pig into them!

 

Dick y, i think it was Bill Shidding's point, (in the post after mine) where he mentioned about moving money as in the amount of 57 Billion pounds being moved around! Of course banks move round some bank notes, if you read my earlier post you would noticed that 97% of money is created as debt so of course there is 3% of "Money" as physical banknotes in circulation , and yes they have to be moved around some times to cater for local demand etc etc. As you say buying items at Boots!

 

as for "if we scrap the system we have - what is your masterplan going to replace it with"

 

No "master plan" as such, but we could just go back to a Currency backed by Gold ( and i think Silver as well)

 

That way the Banksters would not just be able to print up their money, cause inflation and debts for all. (Gold Backed Currency, that's what we had for hundreds of years upto the 1930's)

 

after all what is a Pound today? who the hell knows BUT originally it was a Pound of Sterling SILVER . Would you want to exchange a Pound of Sterling Silver for a 1 Pound coin ( as we have no 1 pound Note anymore)?

 

No, thought not

 

5 Pounds of Sterling Silver weighs 5 pounds, always has, always will. ( so it retains it's value in weight, its a constant) But a 5 pound note now would not even buy you 1 oz of Pure Silver at todays prices. Thats the problem with fiat currencies, they are backed by NOTHING of value ! Therefore they can be printed or created ( Not a constant, causing inflation) at will!

 

Google the "Money Masters" video , Watch it, it will explain everything to you. The history Of "money", currency, banknotes, Central Private for profit banks etc and why we were always going to be in the mess we are in now

[diddydicky]

Dick y, i think it was Bill Shidding's point, (in the post after mine) where he mentioned about moving money as in the amount of 57 Billion pounds being moved around! Of course banks move round some bank notes, if you read my earlier post you would noticed that 97% of money is created as debt so of course there is 3% of "Money" as physical banknotes in circulation , and yes they have to be moved around some times to cater for local demand etc etc. As you say buying items at Boots!

 

as for "if we scrap the system we have - what is your masterplan going to replace it with"

 

No "master plan" as such, but we could just go back to a Currency backed by Gold ( and i think Silver as well)

 

That way the Banksters would not just be able to print up their money, cause inflation and debts for all. (Gold Backed Currency, that's what we had for hundreds of years upto the 1930's)

 

after all what is a Pound today? who the hell knows BUT originally it was a Pound of Sterling SILVER . Would you want to exchange a Pound of Sterling Silver for a 1 Pound coin ( as we have no 1 pound Note anymore)?

 

No, thought not

 

5 Pounds of Sterling Silver weighs 5 pounds, always has, always will. ( so it retains it's value in weight, its a constant) But a 5 pound note now would not even buy you 1 oz of Pure Silver at todays prices. Thats the problem with fiat currencies, they are backed by NOTHING of value ! Therefore they can be printed or created ( Not a constant, causing inflation) at will!

 

Google the "Money Masters" video , Watch it, it will explain everything to you. The history Of "money", currency, banknotes, Central Private for profit banks etc and why we were always going to be in the mess we are in now

 

so, lets suppose then that the banks ONLY lend the physical money that depositers have banked!

 

so i am 84 , have my savings in the bank and they lend it to the nice chappie down the road whose business goes tits up and doesnt pay the money back

 

so the bank has collected 5 million in deposits but as the guy down the road has defaulted on 10 000 the bank now only has 4,900.990 thousand left

 

who loses out if we all want our money back!!

[nuke em]

i'm not sure if i totally get your question!

 

There is not enough currency in any UK bank to payback all the depositors ie people who keep their "money" in that bank

 

Thats why we have Bank runs , ala The recent Northern Rock debacle. A run on a bank is when many people turn up at a bank and say : i have 10,000 pounds in my current/deposit /whatevcer account and i want it now

its ok if a few people turn up on any given day, but what happens if loads/a majority of people all show up at all UK Banks one day and say the same thing?

 

Simple, the first few in the door will get their cash, the rest will have to swing for it, ( actually what would happen is then that the bank would shut its doors) and a National Bank Holiday would be declared within 24/48hours

 

does this answer your question?

[diddydicky]

i'm not sure if i totally get your question!

 

There is not enough currency in any UK bank to payback all the depositors ie people who keep their "money" in that bank

 

Thats why we have Bank runs , ala The recent Northern Rock debacle. A run on a bank is when many people turn up at a bank and say : i have 10,000 pounds in my current/deposit /whatevcer account and i want it now

its ok if a few people turn up on any given day, but what happens if loads/a majority of people all show up at all UK Banks one day and say the same thing?

 

Simple, the first few in the door will get their cash, the rest will have to swing for it, ( actually what would happen is then that the bank would shut its doors) and a National Bank Holiday would be declared within 24/48hours

 

does this answer your question?

 

no, (i probably am being a bit thick)

 

 

as i understood it in the "new order" of things when the present system has been done away with - only REAL money that physically exists will drive the economy therefore if some of it goes out of the bank i am saving it in and into the pocket of someone who cannot or will not give it back- then where is the shortfall in the banks finances going to come from ( ie REAL money to replace REAL money lost)

[nuke em]

ok i get your question now

 

So understand this, the banksters don't want real money backed by anything to make a return, in fact they don't even want paper notes ie Currency. What they want is a complete electronic cashless society, one in which they would be in control of everything ( you can just imagine how scary that would be)

 

So if you dont agree with them the Gov or whoever , they just turn off your ability to pay!

 

Your scenario as put cant happen without massive de-leverging worldwide so that is not on the cards BUT if it was, and to answer your question, The banks would only lend some REAL money to someone who had REAL assets to back it with and therefore to loose i.e. like they used to all those years ago. ergo the banks would take from the person who could not or would not pay back the REAL Money a REAL Item like a House etc

[charlie*]

The Federal Reserve, Chicago branch published a book which explains

how the fractional monetary system works - can't recall the title, easy to find tho. Use google.

 

For doubters, many years ago Amschel (Bauer) now Rothschild stated

'allow me to issue and control a nation's money and I care not who makes its laws'.

 

They knew that whoever controls the money controls everything, The White House, Downing street, even our dogs and cats.... even our houses.... they're on lease only.

 

It stood good then and still does... so, check out the history of the Rothschild family (it was Bauer, the old man was a money changer in the Frankfurt ghetto) .... he had a sign outside his shop/house a red shield.... and the German for that is Rot Schild .... it became Rothschild.

 

Doubters? why did Woodrow Wilson state... after signing the Federal Reserve Act in late 1913.... 'I fear I have betrayed my country'.

 

Why will banks rarely take debtors to court... especially those who show a knowledge of the subject? Thanks to the internet, the world is waking up to the chicanery of these international banksters who own everything.... and make no mistake, whatever they say.... the Rothschilds still have total control over the Bank of England - and the City, the other Crown is theirs too.

 

Can any doubter explain to me where the money comes from when a bank agrees to make a loan? It is nothing more than a drop of ink and a promise to pay. That little formula equals 'enslavement of the masses to maintain their hold over us all'

 

Do you really think they have a big cellar stuffed with £20 notes?

 

You can prove this another way... when I was young you could take a £5 note (one of the big white ones) into the Bank of England and ask to cash it in.... in return for the note they would give you either £5 worth of silver or £5 worth of gold.

 

If you take a £20 note to the Bank of England today, they will merely give you another one.

 

But if you take it to a High Street bank, they'll look at you as though you're a bloody idiot - today's money has no backing.

 

Get with it, there really ain't no money - it's all a fiction.

 

Study and all will be revealed.

 

charlie*

Edited July 28, 2009 by charlie*

[diddydicky]

ok i get your question now

 

So understand this, the banksters don't want real money backed by anything to make a return, in fact they don't even want paper notes ie Currency. What they want is a complete electronic cashless society, one in which they would be in control of everything ( you can just imagine how scary that would be)

 

So if you dont agree with them the Gov or whoever , they just turn off your ability to pay!

 

Your scenario as put cant happen without massive de-leverging worldwide so that is not on the cards BUT if it was, and to answer your question, The banks would only lend some REAL money to someone who had REAL assets to back it with and therefore to loose i.e. like they used to all those years ago. ergo the banks would take from the person who could not or would not pay back the REAL Money a REAL Item like a House etc

 

 

so the fella living in a council house would not be able to borrow 10 grand to buy a new car?

 

seems like that would be a retrograde step?

 

surely (are you sure your name is not shirley), it is impossible to run an economy without "printing money" (elctronically or otherwise)

[diddydicky]

The Federal Reserve, Chicago branch published a book which explains

how the fractional monetary system works - can't recall the title, easy to find tho. Use google.

 

For doubters, many years ago Amschel (Bauer) now Rothschild stated

'allow me to issue and control a nation's money and I care not who makes its laws'.

 

They knew that whoever controls the money controls everything, The White House, Downing street, even our dogs and cats.... even our houses.... they're on lease only.

 

It stood good then and still does... so, check out the history of the Rothschild family (it was Bauer, the old man was a money changer in the Frankfurt ghetto) .... he had a sign outside his shop/house a red shield.... and the German for that is Rot Schild .... it became Rothschild.

 

Doubters? why did Woodrow Wilson state... after signing the Federal Reserve Act in late 1913.... 'I fear I have betrayed my country'.

 

Why will banks rarely take debtors to court... especially those who show a knowledge of the subject? Thanks to the internet, the world is waking up to the chicanery of these international banksters who own everything.... and make no mistake, whatever they say.... the Rothschilds still have total control over the Bank of England - and the City, the other Crown is theirs too.

 

Can any doubter explain to me where the money comes from when a bank agrees to make a loan? It is nothing more than a drop of ink and a promise to pay. That little formula equals 'enslavement of the masses to maintain their hold over us all'

 

Do you really think they have a big cellar stuffed with £20 notes?

 

You can prove this another way... when I was young you could take a £5 note (one of the big white ones) into the Bank of England and ask to cash it in.... in return for the note they would give you either £5 worth of silver or £5 worth of gold.

 

If you take a £20 note to the Bank of England today, they will merely give you another one.

 

But if you take it to a High Street bank, they'll look at you as though you're a bloody idiot - today's money has no backing.

 

Get with it, there really ain't no money - it's all a fiction.

 

Study and all will be revealed.

 

charlie*

 

well pout charlie- but i already knew that

 

Anyone can pick up a hammer and knock a wall down

 

but they may not have the skills to re build it!

 

so in your brave new world, where we have agreed that pigs goats sheep coins and banknotes are not to be used

 

and that the banks nor personal wealthy titled individuals are not going to control it

 

and that the government (which is elected by its populace in a democratic society) is not to be trusted with it

 

precisley who is going to control and police it all?

 

 

I am old enough to remember the days when trades unions almost ruled the country

 

on the face of it they were "for the people"

 

in reality they were the biggest load of hypocrites on the planet

 

the union leaders enjoyed a lifestyle their members could only aspire to as they stood on the picket lines

 

 

the Tool Makers and other skilled workers regularly "downed tools" whenever the unskilled workers got a pay rise which closed the gap between them

 

 

I'm all for making the system better- i just don't trust the people who want to make it better, or the ones who will take over the running of it's replacement anymore than the ones running it now!!

 

power corrupts

[nuke em]

so the fella living in a council house would not be able to borrow 10 grand to buy a new car?

 

seems like that would be a retrograde step?

 

surely (are you sure your name is not shirley), it is impossible to run an economy without "printing money" (elctronically or otherwise)

 

 

i only can admit to being called Shirley on the weekends and today is TUESDAY!

 

anyway you made a good point and if inflation is what you are after (like the banksters are ) then yes it would be a retrograde step

 

But

 

suppose the car only cost now 5 grand ( as there much less inflation), so less risk per unit sold as they are cheaper per unit, more to be sold as more people can afford them ( and yes the bank would still be able to repo the car if the fella didnt pay)

[Stornoway]

well pout charlie- but i already knew that

 

Anyone can pick up a hammer and knock a wall down

 

but they may not have the skills to re build it!

 

so in your brave new world, where we have agreed that pigs goats sheep coins and banknotes are not to be used

 

and that the banks nor personal wealthy titled individuals are not going to control it

 

and that the government (which is elected by its populace in a democratic society) is not to be trusted with it

 

precisley who is going to control and police it all?

 

 

I am old enough to remember the days when trades unions almost ruled the country

 

on the face of it they were "for the people"

 

in reality they were the biggest load of hypocrites on the planet

 

the union leaders enjoyed a lifestyle their members could only aspire to as they stood on the picket lines

 

 

the Tool Makers and other skilled workers regularly "downed tools" whenever the unskilled workers got a pay rise which closed the gap between them

 

 

I'm all for making the system better- i just don't trust the people who want to make it better, or the ones who will take over the running of it's replacement anymore than the ones running it now!!

 

power corrupts

 

I completely agree. I've knocked enough holes in Nuke Ems arguments at the start of the thread to reach my own conclusions on all this but even if we take all the arguments at face value I just cant see why "fractional reserve banking" is such an issue.

 

The key point is that people have a choice - if you dont trust the banking system then simply use it to move money / pay bills when you have to (ie. to avoid bartering) and convert your savings from "money" to assets (ie buy gold and keep it in your cellar/shed/under the mattress). Personally I'll keep using banks because I much prefer the lifestyle I have now (nice car, house, clothes etc) and I know that my standard of living is so much better than that of my parents basically because the economy has grown funded by "fictitious" bank debt.

 

The header to this thread says that understanding how bank loans work will change my life - I dont think so unless by changing my life Nuke Em wants me to move 100 years backwards.

 

As I said in one of my earlier posts, the world will ge better and we will get through this recession - its just a matter of time.