ingredients of a voidable loan

[micko19]

Would any of the following alone or combined help to make a loan voidable.

 

1. A full secret commission.

2. The half way house situation in Wilson v Hurstanger ie informed consent not given for commission and amount not declared.

3. Missold ppi.

4. Incorrectly documented ppi ie should be cca categoery debtor/creditor supplier.

5. Incorrectly documented loan as in over 25,000 but involving restricted use and unrestricted ie should have been multiple agreement for all the cca categories...

 

I know some of these issues can result in unenforceability, but when a loan has been settled it cannot be made unenforceable because it no longer exists.

 

However i do believe aloan can be deemed voidable after settlement. Meaning all monies get returned apart from the bare bones of the loan itself..So all interest erc all charges would be returned to you.....

 

THe above list of transgressions are done in most subprime loans and may be worth discussion

 

cheers

 

micko19 bump 'bump' 'bump'

Edited December 20, 2008 by micko19
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[micko19]

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[micko19]

found the text below and quoted the url...

 

 

 

The term ‘unenforceable contract’ may be considered a contradiction in terms. A contract that is not enforceable is not a true contract.

However, a contract is generally referred to as ‘unenforceable’ when it cannot be enforced by direct legal proceedings. For example, when it should have been made in writing (which applies to most property contracts); when no action has been started to enforce it within the statutorily prescribed period of time (generally six years for simple contracts—including claims for mortgage arrears); or one of the parties cannot be taken to court (such as a foreign sovereign or his ambassador).

More strictly lawyers use the term ‘void’ or ‘voidable’.

A void contract is devoid of legal effect, usually because it lacks an essential element (such as a competent party or an ascertainable subject matter). Thus, a contract for the sale of a property is void if the seller has no power to represent the owner, or the property cannot be clearly identified (or made capable of clear definition).

“A voidable contract, unlike a void contract, has legal effect but it may be avoided, or accepted as valid, by the election [i.e. the choice] of one or other of the parties. A voidable contract may arise from misrepresentation, mistake, duress, undue influence, when there is a breach of a requirement for utmost good faith, or when one of the parties is legally incapable of contracting (due to drunkenness, age, soundness of mind or statute)”, Encyclopedia of Real Estate Terms, Third Edition.

A finance contract may be voidable because the terms of the loan were clearly misrepresented (and the borrower did not know of the misrepresentation), or there was an undue influence (as when a professional advisor exert pressure on his or her client to persuade them to enter into the contract).

A contract may also be voidable if it does not comply with the requirements of a statute, such as the Consumer Protection Act 1974 (which may strike down a loan that is “extortionate”, especially when there is a substantial imbalance of bargaining power), or the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 (which applies to some residential mortgage loans).

 

 

 

Unenforceable contract | Forum | Money Saving Expert | Credit Card Consolidation | Debt Management | Secured Homeowner Loan | Quick Mortgage

 

 

With the help of the above i think i can now have a go at answering some of my own questions...

 

1. A finance contract may be voidable because the terms of the loan were clearly misrepresented (and the borrower did not know of the misrepresentation),

2. A contract may also be voidable if it does not comply with the requirements of a statute, such as the Consumer Protection Act 1974 (which may strike down a loan that is “extortionate”, especially when there is a substantial imbalance of bargaining power), or the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 (which applies to some residential mortgage loans).

 

In my view.... if the above statements are correct ...

1.Yes you can claim a contract to be voidable when they clearly contravene section 18 of the consumer credit act, especially if this contravention has specifically made your contract to being artificially outsde the cca.

2. If you can prove ppi misselling this is tantamount to huge misrepresentation as it could have cost you your house or other goods so would also make your loan voidable.

3. Commissions not declared to the specific amount on the lenders agreement has again got to be massive mirepresentation.

4. PPI where not part of a multiple agreement is also misleading as it should be creditor/debtor/supplier this is mis repepresentation....

5. I also think that if you had a distance agreement if they dont send you a copy of the advanced copy which should have been sent to you for 6 days this would mean your loan was voidable as they have not fulfilled their obligations under cca....

 

This is all just my opinion but i have 2 or 3 loans that tick all the boxes above. Will i have a go.....You bet....Will let you know how it goes....

 

happy new year all

 

micko19:-D

 

off to the count court for 10 N1's

[joneseyblod]

How are these going Micko?

[micko19]

thought no one would ever respond to this thread.....

 

Bottom line is solicitors are pursuing 3 of my loans commisions , ppi section 18 apparently they have promised me no stone wil be left unturned. Anyway not holding my breath but keeping fingers crossed. They have specifically said i am due a lot of money??..but lets wait till the fat lady sings I am very cynical and trust no one. They are doing it under "access to justice" and claim insurance paid for by defendent.....

 

I will keep you informed by pm mate.

 

However no matter how this goes i Have wiped out about 16000 in credit cards and unsecured loans purely from advice from this site. I see that as a great result. If i am any where near as successful with the secured stuff i would be delighted.....

 

Persistance and requestioning is whats required you kinda get to know who the good guys are and also there are people i am convinced sow doubt seeds on behalf of the banks. Keep your radar on and always risk assess your situation....ie sometimes the worst that can happen is not that bad at all

 

thanks for asking

 

mick

[joneseyblod]

Hi micko

 

I exchanged some messages with you on another thread a while ago and recalled you were saying that you was starting a thread at some point soon.

 

Wouldn you mind telling me which solicitors you are using regarding the s18 stuff?

 

Im interested in one having a look over my egg agreement which is restricted and unrestricted use (a top up loan) but not documented as such and not showing the discharging of existing debt.

 

Thats fantastic that you have managed to wipe out about 16000 in credit cards and loans!

 

My battles will have to be done from advice on this site, as the credit cards are each under 5k and solicitors arent interested unless its more than 5k.

 

Yes have spotted some good people on this site.

 

Keep me posted and best of luck!

 

JB

[micko19]

cca request templates will sort the credit cards they make mistakes on all of heythem. I am starting to get letters now from them commiting to desist from posting data via section 10 dpa. It all works but they will try to bluff you... As for my section 18 solicitor I am using Peter Bottomley

listen i have committed to a solicitor firm run by Peter Bottomley. I am at massive pains to make recomendations to any one. I also tried stephensons who were useless. Feel free to present your stuff to peter I feel he has a good feel for the business he used to be an IFA.

 

DO NOT BLAME ME IF THINGS GO WRONG...

 

This is the risk i am taking and you must make your own informed opinion. I spoke to 5 solicitors who did not know the difference between restricted use credit and unrestricted. Many solicitors are completely clueless and many already do work on acount for loan companies and banks and so do some judges..So tip toe through the minefield in your own way..

 

I am an optimist and have written off 16,000 worth of unsecured loans through superb info from this site and ensured section 10 nothing on the credit files.

 

scan everything you have and send it here ..[email protected] feel free to mention me and we will both keep tabs on him.

You will need bank statements showing what you were actually given in credit etc

 

cheers mick

 

always take your own risks I trust very few people....

[joneseyblod]

Sent you a PM.

 

Forgot a couple of points on it.

 

I did get a TSB credit card agreement, but only through a SAR. All my CCA requests gave agreements with no signatures.

It seems the TSB credit card agreement may be enforcable with a court order as it is missing their sig. Seems everything else may be ok...

 

The section 10 - nothing on credit files is extremely impressive! How did you accomplish that?

[micko19]

Sent you a PM.

 

Forgot a couple of points on it.

 

I did get a TSB credit card agreement, but only through a SAR. All my CCA requests gave agreements with no signatures.

It seems the TSB credit card agreement may be enforcable with a court order as it is missing their sig. Seems everything else may be ok...

 

The section 10 - nothing on credit files is extremely impressive! How did you accomplish that?

 

no signatures no prescribed terms...unenforceable. get them on photo bucket and lets have a look...

 

section 10 dpa means anyone with an unenforceable contract has no right to process your data. I threatned court action to enforce compliance with section 10 and with them liable to the damages the judge sees fit....

 

mick

[joneseyblod]

What I found confusing is what was sent in SAR seems enforcable by a court order as it has some apr details etc but no creditor signature. What I was sent in CCA though was not enforcable as there was no signatures.

 

This is what I got in the SAR:

 

 

 

And this is what I got in CCA request each time (it is supposedly bht the legal agreement and the terms and conditions according to them)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[micko19]

Most of it does seem to be in good order as i see it in my honest opinion. The document should be cosigned but they may yet produce a cosigned version. Unsigned equals unexecuted. I would tell them that they have not complied with the cca section 78/79 whatevever and request they desist from any collection activities or posting of data until an executed agreement is produced ie signed by both parties...Worth a shot???/

 

mick

[joneseyblod]

I have sent a few letters to them under the CCA but they keep just sending the unsigned few page document as both the agreement and the t & c.

 

I sent a letter end of January to the department manager and now just keep getting letters about my complaint being passed to different departments (3 so far).

 

The application form and agreement signed by myself but not them I have must be a good five of those in the SAR. I recall these agreements and signing them.

 

There does not appear to be anywhere for them to sign those documents though?

 

I do not recall getting any document signed by them and surely it would of come in a SAR?

 

What is strange is why they hide behind documents with no signatures when they have a document that is signed by me

 

I will send a new letter regarding what I received in the SAR though and request they provide an executed agreement.

 

Thank you

[charlie*]

Some of the questions about the original signed agreements can be answered by this cartoon video.

 

The Crisis of Credit Visualized 10 minutes, that's all.

 

This video illustrates how the sub-prime agreements were used to generate billions - the same basic principals equally apply to bank loan agreements and many other kinds of "paper trading" - which is how the extreme rich become even richer... and those introduced to it for services rendered, such as Blair, the Bush family, all the big private banks who own all the world central banks (very involved), Brown in due course... when he's finished the task they gave him and others used by the banksters.

 

Just work on the basis that there is no money until it is borrowed. This is why the world is in a mess.... the banksters (ie: the Bank of England, Fed Reserve, etc., will "lend" money in exchange for promissory notes (bills of exchange... your cheque is one) which is precisely what our loan agreements and mortgage agreements are. From the moment the bank receives that application/agreement signed by a borrower and stamped, as it were, "Pay to the Order Of" ..... and because the banksters have NEVER in their history issued enough money to either pay the interest on a "loan" nor to repay the amount borrowed, the system cannot account for this, so the debt keeps increasing.... there is NO end to it other than chaos when the whole fractional reserve monetary system collapses under its own debt. This is why it is called "debt money"... because there is no money other than that which has been borrowed out of thin air.... I think 1814 paved the way (Rothschilds) and certainly the signing of the Federal Reserve Act in 1913 following the Jekyll Island meeting of 1910 and the following US presidential election when Woodrow Wilson won because the banksters financed him on the clear understanding that he gave them absolute authority over the issuance and control of the United States Dollar.

 

HOWEVER, there is hope... a very brave US Senator has just called for the Federal Reserve System (bank) to either be closed down or nationalised.

 

The last man who tried this was assasinated... his name was John F Kennedy.

 

This is a 90 seconds video - the time allotted by the Senate for individual members to speak on a given subject, this day was 60 seconds.

 

Kucinich: Nationalize the Fed

 

Remember, the banks do NOT have the original agreements with your signature. They were sold, because YOU, are the guarantee - your labour is the guarantee.

 

It's a fascinating subject, but how the hell do we get the judges and the lesser mortals who are employed by the banks to play letter tennis to believe... that they are employed solely as slaves to the private banks pushing a system that is the most despicable [problem] ever and destined to destroy this planet.. we have seen the sort of greed of the banksters in the sub-prime mortgage [problem]... all part of it for nothing happens in politics or commerce unless it is planned that way.

 

charlie

Edited March 11, 2009 by charlie*

[MAGDA]

Hi, reading this thread with interest, and hope you don't mind if I ask something. If a loan is a top up-loan (unsecured), which I noticed Jonesey mentioned, should that be classed as a multiple agreement and the terms for each part be stated separately within the agreement? Best of luck Micko with your battles, Magda

[Dai27]

Hi

 

Sorry to hyjack your thread, was just checking through my credit card agreement in regards of Lloyds TSB and was comparing my agreement to post 10, however, all the same but I did not receive all the other information/paperwork with my agreement like post 10 when they sent me this, or anything to sign if I wanted to cancel.

They had crossed the part where to sign with a printed cross already made by them on the insurance.

 

I have a few cases with the FOS, one Credit card ppi just resolved, now just waiting for the funds to come through.

 

I had taken this out in September 2007.

 

While I'm here please could someone explain to me what it means by unenforceable and voidable loans etc?

 

If someone had already settled their finance and find out their loan or finance was any of the 2, what happens from here?, would you be entitled to money back if the finance was settled?, sorry I have not got a clue.

 

However, I understand if the money is borrowed its to be paid back, but with not having knowledge of how these agreements work or how they supposed to work, such as flaws etc, what is it we check for in this case?

 

I am new to this issue and interested in finding out about this, thanks guys.

[Dai27]

Hi folks me again.

 

I have a case (Endeavour) with the solicitor now, had problems getting this sorted through the FOS.

 

This is in regards of a ppi, which was mis sold and was not fully eligible for and it was automatically added, when taking this out I thought this was all part of the loan, so tried the usual with the complaint procedures, fully exhausted them, then to the FOS who cannot deal with it as they were not regulated a such with GISC/FSA.

 

Unfortunately I lost my job, and hoping to return to new employment soon, fingers crossed, with a mortgage to pay etc and a family to feed.

 

I had send this off to a free service, have not paid anything upfront, and now told it's not just the ppi that is reclaimable, I do need to do more digging on this but its now with the solicitor who is calling me next week.

 

Any information in regards of unenforecable or voidable loans would be help to me, thank you.

 

Again as this is settled/paid off what would there be to reclaim then?

 

Cheers.