Halifax CC

[felixfly]

Hi

 

I have sent an SAR to Halifax for a CC account. We were paying this account for 2 years through CCCS. In that time they have been adding more interest than we have been paying and the balance is going up each month instead of down.

 

I have received some printed sheets that are not copies of the original signed agreement. I have received no statements or anything with signatures etc. The letter says this is all they need to send me and they dont need to send a copy of my original agreement. Is this true?

 

If not what is my next step?

 

Regards

[fedup74]

When I requested SAR from Halifax I received a huge envelope full of all sorts, agreements included. I was under the impression they had to send everything they hold on you under the SAR request. Maybe they haven't got an agreement? Did you CCA them first?

[vexlitigant]

Hi

 

I have sent an Subject Access Request to Halifax for a CC account. We were paying this account for 2 years through CCCS. In that time they have been adding more interest than we have been paying and the balance is going up each month instead of down.

 

I have received some printed sheets that are not copies of the original signed agreement. I have received no statements or anything with signatures etc. The letter says this is all they need to send me and they dont need to send a copy of my original agreement. Is this true?

 

If not what is my next step?

 

Regards

 

Hi Felix

 

As fedup states, have you sent off a request for a copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement (CCA)? Although you have said that Halifax have provided paperwork, unless they provide an original copy of CCA, with signatures and prescribed terms, common wisdom, backed by law makes this difficult to enforce. Remember that a signed application is not an agreement.

 

A letter with your particulars on, like the example below should help you..

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number 1234 5678 1234 5678

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77(6) will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

Mr / Mrs A N Other

[vexlitigant]

Actually, amend that letter to include space for you to write in the serial number of the postal order that you send (you should keep a record of that serial number for youir won records too).

 

I'd send it with royal mail proof of postage as a minimum, recorded delivery if you want.

[vexlitigant]

oh - and do NOT sign the letter. Use a digital signature

[felixfly]

Hi

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

Im struggling to work out the difference between a CCA request and an SAR.

 

If i have sent an SAR then do i still need to send a CCA? If so why send an SAR as a CCA is cheaper.

 

What they sent me is a letter saying the credit limit & balance etc and then a paragraph saying this is all they need to send me and they dont need to send a copy of my original agreement. Then what look like terms and conditions but newly typed on fresh paper. Not copies of the agreements i signed. It looks like they may have also sent typed up versions of the old t&c's but again they are not copies. There are no statements or lists of charges and no copy of the original CCA.

 

Do i wait 40 days or 12+2 days to send out a no compliance letter? Whenever a payment is even a day later i start getting automated telephone calls from them many times a day every day and am tempted to wait until after xmas. I dont want them ringing xmas day.

[fedup74]

Hi felixfly:) If it was me, I would send the CCA request as this is specifically asking for a copy of your agreement and they have to comply. Most people send a CCA request first and then an Subject Access Request to find what other info is on file. With an Subject Access Request request they are obliged to send out the info they have on file. Reading between the lines, maybe they haven't got a copy;) and that is why they haven't sent it. You would have to wait another 12+2 days before account is in dispute but are your 40 days for Subject Access Request up yet anyway? If it was me (and this is my opinion only) I would send the CCA request. Good luck:)

 

P.S. I don't think they would ring Christmas day, if they do shout Ho Ho Ho down the phone and put it down!!

[felixfly]

Hi

 

OK i will send a CCA Request.

 

They may ring xmas day as its not a person on the other end its a computer, once it starts its many times a day every day.

[fedup74]

I think they have to have a person to set the computer off though (laymans terms). Have you sent the telephone harassment letter? This is to say you want everything in writing?

[vexlitigant]

Hi

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

Im struggling to work out the difference between a CCA request and an Subject Access Request.

 

If i have sent an Subject Access Request then do i still need to send a CCA? If so why send an Subject Access Request as a CCA is cheaper.

 

What they sent me is a letter saying the credit limit & balance etc and then a paragraph saying this is all they need to send me and they dont need to send a copy of my original agreement. Then what look like terms and conditions but newly typed on fresh paper. Not copies of the agreements i signed. It looks like they may have also sent typed up versions of the old t&c's but again they are not copies. There are no statements or lists of charges and no copy of the original CCA.

 

Do i wait 40 days or 12+2 days to send out a no compliance letter? Whenever a payment is even a day later i start getting automated telephone calls from them many times a day every day and am tempted to wait until after xmas. I dont want them ringing xmas day.

 

 

 

• A request for CCA is a specific request for a copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement. It asks for nothing else. They can bleat all they like about what they are and aren't obliged to send you, but i can tell you that you need to start taking the content of their letters with a pinch of salt. If they have a proper copy of a CCA, then they will not mess around - they will send it. Most likely (i'd put money on it) they ain't got one, and hence you will see all of the squirming and nonsense from them because of it.
  

 

 

• An SAR request is simply a request saying "give me a copy of every single record that you have on me". It certainly does imply that they should send a copy of a CCA (if it exists) as well as EVERYTHING else (it is quite a long list) but what an SAR does not do is tell them what you will do if they don't produce it.
  

Usually you would CCA them first, the SAR them, but it doesn't matter if you have done it the other way around.

 

You point about waiting 40 OR 12+2 days....

 

• 40 days relates to an SAR request.
  
• 12+2 days is all they have to comply with CCA request.
  

and lastly your point about enforcement.....

 

• If they don't respond to SAR request, then you complain to the Information Commissioners Office. DO NOT worry about this yet.
  
• If you do not get a true signed copy of the CCA, then do nothing. Ignore everything they send thereafter. They will be breaking the law, as this is a criminal act.
  

Hope what i have added here helps

[felixfly]

Hi

 

Thanks vexlitigant, thats very helpful.

 

Well i have now received a letter from them saying they are dealing with my SAR and should be able to comply within the 40 days. it is 39 days today but i will give them until after xams i think and see what they come up with.

 

This is despite them sending the previous letter saying they dont need to send me any more info than they already have. I dont know whether they are reffering to the previous letter or not Ill just wait and see what comes.

 

They also sent me a copy of their complaints procedure.

 

After sending them this SAR i sent another for an old account which i owe nothing on but have paid hundreds if not thousands in charges. I wonder if that is what made them suddenly become more compliant.

 

Anyway we shall see what i get next.

 

Felix

[vexlitigant]

Good. Don't hold your breath. Ball's now in their court.

[felixfly]

Well after sending the template giving them a further 7 days before court action i received a large pack full of all the statements etc.

 

I also received the attached CCA. This was all i received in terms of signed agreements. Could someone tell me if it is enforceable please? I imagine as it is just an application then it isnt. Also it isnt signed by the Halifax.

 

 

Anyway i shall now count up all the charges. I noticed that the charges went from £25 down to £12 a couple of years ago. I take it i cannot claim the £12 charges back?

 

Regards

 

 

 

Felix

[fedup74]

Hi Felix- no prescribed terms, an application form- unenforceable:D

With regards to the charges- the OFT recommended a smaller charge from £25ish. It still doesn't represent what it costs the company so if you are claiming your charges, put the £12 ones down too. Good luck:)

[felixfly]

Thanks for the reply.

 

Now, the balance is about £1400. The charges come up to £750. As it is unenforceable should i just stop paying or should i claim the charges (which i presume they will knock off the total) then offer a F&F settlement for the rest of say 20%.

 

I think i will go for the latter just so i know it will be the last i hear of them.

[pinky1977]

watching with interest going thru the same thing

 

good luck

Sarah

[felixfly]

OK, today i received a letter from them offering me £245 which they say is the difference between the £12 they are allowed to charge me and the actual charges.

 

Is the agreement i posted definately not enforcable? If so i take it i should just send a letter back saying 'thanks but no thanks and goodbye'

[felixfly]

Hi

 

I have been dealing with this card for my wife. I also have charges on an old halifax account with come up to more than this cards balance. I wrote a letter saying this card is unenforceable but i would be willing to cancel my claim for the charges on my old account if they would write off this card.

 

Today my wife received a letter saying they need her approval to close the account.

 

Does this mean they have agreed or is it just a trick i wonder?

[vexlitigant]

The c/ card 'agreement' that you have posted is unenforceable.

 

They owe you > £245

 

Why would you trade one for the other?

 

You stand to be quids in here.

 

Continue with the claim for your charges back

 

Push back r.e. their pursuit of the credit card sum.

 

Tis your choice.

[felixflyer]

Well the charges i am claiming relate to an overdraft and amount to £2000. This claim will be stayed for however long it takes and depending on what happens with the court case i may not get them. The charges on the card add up to £700 and the balance is £1450. As i understand it i cannot go down the unenforcable route with the card and claim the card charges back as well so i would be happy for them to just write the card off to be honest.

[felixfly]

We have been getting hassled every day by Blair Oliver & Scott now. Despite sending the Account in Dispute letter to them and telling them all they have is an application form.

 

Today we have received a Notice of Intended Court Action. It says they need payment by tomorrow and says it was posted on the 06/05/09 but we only received it today 12/05/09. Should we be worried or is this just a standard threatogram?

[babydoll0141917]

Hi

 

standard threatogram i received 1 of those on 19th sept 08 still i wait for court action

[vexlitigant]

We have been getting hassled every day by Blair Oliver & Scott now. Despite sending the Account in Dispute letter to them and telling them all they have is an application form.

 

Today we have received a Notice of Intended Court Action. It says they need payment by tomorrow and says it was posted on the 06/05/09 but we only received it today 12/05/09. Should we be worried or is this just a standard threatogram?

 

Felix

 

My experience is that the date that the letter was composed, and the date received is usually a minimum of 7 days apart. Standard tactic used to make you feel that most of the time you would have had to consider your response has evaporated. Also find that these letters tend to arrive on Fridays or Saturdays - in my view designed to prey on your mind over a weekend, and tempt you into a rushed response.

 

Either their systems produce letters with old dates on by default, or they print a batch at then end of one week, and post them the end of the next week. It happens with such regularity, that this must be a standard trick taught as part of any debt collection employees induction.

 

Accordingly, so that if it goes anywhere, a judge can see the deliberate gaps in dates, if responding i always make a point in my first line "In response to your letter dated xx/xxx/xx, received here on xx/xxx/xx"

 

Or, in short, standard crap produced by unimaginative drones

 

Vex