Bailiffs Calling Tonight !!! - Help

[chris600uk]

The owners of the property must claim them back.

 

The debtor can give a statutory declaration saying the items arent' his/her property and usually the bailiffs should accept that, although in some circumstances they can insist on a stat dec or other evidence from the owners.

[hallowitch]

she has the receipt for p.c. but Ive not got a receipt for the telly

for my sins (Lil) i only live a few doors away from my daughter and i know exactly how much she owes the bailiff and keep that amount in the house i have included in this the 2 levy fees but not the fee for the van on the 12 January i will not pay that but will continue to pay this every week from my bank account so if they try anything on i will have the money there to pay them

[hallowitch]

help is there a template letter i can use to send to the council about the bailiff also i read something about 2 Levey's on same day i think it was by tom tubby cant find that ether

[chris600uk]

"When the levy was initially carried out you signed the document claiming the goods to be owned by yourself. At the point of Jacobs having to remove goods then sufficient proof will have to be shown as to whom the goods belong to prevent the removal."

 

Your bailiff Mr Ekiss left us with no choice but to sign the document or let him remove goods even though we offered him proof of the ownership of the goods, this behaviour was not only unlawful, he has made an invalid levy and has charged excessive fees, these are easily sufficient grounds for a form 4 complaint.

 

This is your last opportunity to correct his error before we take action against him, please note that a copy of this letter is being sent to xxxxx council.

 

or something along those lines.

 

Remember that you MUST send a copy to the council, the head of the council tax department separately, and your councillor, as well as your MP to rack up the embarrassment factor, because you want as many people to know about this as possible.

[hallowitch]

i am trying to write a letter to the council and will post it here before i send it but i need a wee bit of help i have counted this a few times my

self but would appreciate someone else checking the figures for me

12 January amount due according to the bailiff £287.58

may/16th dept £190

June/7th visit fee 1 £22.50+vat£3.94

June/9th visit fee 2 £ 16.50 +vat£2.89

July/11th walking possession £11.00 +vat£1.93

July/11th levy fee £27.00+vat£4.73

Jan/12th attendance/van £90.00+vay13.50

total costs £384.71

less payments £129.62

my calculated balance on the 12th January is £255.09

does this add up because there is £32.49 difference from my calculations and the bailiffs i might just add here that the 2 visits they are calming for were to her old property she only had one letter at her new address

[KJD]

may/16th dept £190

June/7th visit fee 1 £22.50+vat£3.94

June/9th visit fee 2 £ 16.50 +vat£2.89

July/11th walking possession £11.00 +vat£1.93

July/11th levy fee £27.00+vat£4.73

Jan/12th attendance/van £90.00+vay13.50

total costs £384.71

 

Woah there Bessy!

 

Since when have they been allowed to add VAT to these charges???

In fact, there is a thread from last year when a poster spoke to HMRC and got specific details etc stating that they cannot add it on to ct charges.

 

Got to go out for a bit but will try to find it when I get back.

 

I'm sure in the meantime, someone will be along to confirm this.

[KJD]

Also, can you let us know the year these charges refer to, eg May 2006, 07, 09? Not the ct dates but the dates they have been applied to your account. These are the old charges.

[KJD]

In fact, there is a thread from last year when a poster spoke to HMRC and got specific details etc stating that they cannot add it on to ct charges

 

Here you go.. have a read.. particularly post #13

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/162926-baliffs-vat.html

[hallowitch]

they were all applied year 07 apart from the attendance/van that was 09

 

another account she had for 06/07 with vat added to there charges on this old account they also added vat to her payments (example debit card charge £2+vat 35 P allpay charge£2+ vat 35p) thats why we changed it to a standing order to avoid these charges

thanks for a very very interesting read

 

HE HE I'm getting all excited now if i can get the vat and unlawful charges removed from both these accounts she wont owe them anything they may owe her( lol)

I'm excited because i have been paying this for her to try and help her out and i want to start paying her rent arrears as soon as i have paid off the bailiffs (thank you for your help very much appreciated)

[KJD]

Now, see how you've done a complete 360 degree turn around from your first posts

 

Ok, so have done some more searching and what the above thread says about VAT not being applicable to council tax bailiff fees is correct (incidentally that goes for business rates, magistrates courts distress warrants, child support arrears and income tax in case anyone else needs to know). This is confirmed in the consumerwiki and tomtubby's site.

 

And the fees, which are set down in law for England and Wales, state the following..

 

BAILIFFS’ CHARGES FOR COUNCIL TAX AND POLL TAX FROM APRIL 2007

 

EVENTCOUNCIL TAX CHARGES

For a visit to your home where no entry is made and a list of goods is not made(i.e. a levy is not made)

£24.50 for a first visit

£18.00 for a second visit

No further charges for further visits

 

For making a levy (i.e. where the bailiffs gain peaceful entry and make a list of goods)

£24.50 for the first £100 or less

4% for the next £400

2.5% for the next £1,500

 

For entering into a 'walking possession' agreement

Flat fee of £12

 

For a 'close possession' agreement (e.g. bailiff stays with the goods)

£15 per day

 

For one attendance with a vehicle with a view to recover goods after the levy has been made under this heading

Reasonable costs incurred

(N.B. only one charge can be made.)

 

For the removal and storage of goods

Reasonable costs incurred

 

For various items relating to sale or proposed sale of the goods (e.g. auctioneers' fees etc)Various fees and expenses

 

 

 

(Taken from the National Debtline website)

 

So, yes, you have been overcharged by the addition of VAT, but actually undercharged on the charges applied.

 

Good grief.. if we know this, how come a certified bailif doesn't?!

 

I think you need a short and to the point letter pointing out the error of their ways (copied to the council as well of course because by association, they've got it wrong as well ;-))

 

Chris.. if you've got a moment to help..??

Edited February 11, 2009 by KJD
Poop! That didn't come out very well in the original post!

[KJD]

I'm trying to sort out what you should have paid, what they've charged, and what the difference is.

 

Are you able list the following..

 

Original debt 1 (and are you sure it's right?);

Original debt 2 (ditto);

Each individual charge they have made;

How much you've paid in total.

 

And to confirm, they arrived and levied on both debts on just one occasion?

 

I know you've done this before, but it would help to have it all set out in one post

 

I'll dust off me abacus and see what we can work out, then we can formulate a plan of attack

 

Karen

Edited February 11, 2009 by KJD
Note to self - stop watching England game whilst posting!

[hallowitch]

give me 5min to get a very large vodi irn bru lol then i will post all the info you need

[hallowitch]

:oops:dept (1) original dept £192.38 checked with council and is correct

September 06 visit fee1 22.50 +vat£3.94

October 06 visit fee2£16.50+vat£2.89

July 11th 07 walking possession £11+vat£1.93

July 11th 07 levy fee £27+vat£4.73

august 07 payment by debit card £2+vat£0.35p

October 07 payment by allpay £2+vat£0.35p

November 07 payment by debit card £2+vat£0.35p

November 07 payment by allpay£2+vat £2+vat£0.35p

November 07 payment by allpay £2+vat£0.35p thats all the charges on that one total amount paid to bailiff £279.38 account closed

 

dept (2)original dept £190.20 checked with council and is correct

June 07 visit fee1£22.50+vat£3.94

June 07 visit fee2£16.50+vat£2,89

July 11th 07 walking possession £11.00+vat£1.93

July 11th 07 levy fee £27+vat£4.37

January 09 attendance/van£90+vat13.50

on this account up until 11th January 09 she had paid £129.62

 

yes both accounts were levied on the same day 11th July 07 the same goods were used for the levy on both accounts hope this is clear for you because that was hard work (lol) but your help is very much appreciated

[KJD]

That's fine... back in a bit...

[KJD]

A quick question

 

When the bailiff came and did the wp / levy, had the first one been paid off already? If, not how much was left and therefore added to the 2nd one? Do you know?

[KJD]

Actually don't worry about that as IMHO it doesn't make any difference.

 

I've worked out the following..

 

Debt 1:

Total £192.38

1st visit £24.50 Sept 06

2nd visit £18.00 Oct 06

 

Total £243.88

 

Debt 2:

Total £190.20

1st visit £24.50 Jun 07

2nd visit £18.00 Jun 07

 

Total £232.70

 

Walking Poss fee - invalid as arrangement already in place

Levy fee - invalid as arrangement already in place and invalid as on goods not belonging to your daughter

Van fee - invalid as arrangement already in place

 

So I make that a total of £476.38

 

You've paid £409.00

 

Which means a balance of £67.58 to pay.

 

The odd fees of 35p you;ve been charged on the debit card and allpay transactions may well stand because altho we've seen a ruling that they can't charge a fee for credit card payments, I don't believe it covers debit cards (they are cheaper to process; in fact 35p is not bad).

 

So if you add that on as well, the total outstanding is £69.33

 

Bearing mind it's getting late, could someone else check my figures / reasonings to see if they agree?

Edited February 11, 2009 by KJD
added dates

[hallowitch]

i have already wrote to the bailiff and had a reply

(post 40) so i am now trying to write a letter to the council about the bailiffs charges i also sent an e-mail to my mp about 3 weeks ago got no reply from him the allpay and debit card charges were £2 the vat was 35p

thanks again for your help

[KJD]

i have already wrote to the bailiff and had a reply

(post 40) so i am now trying to write a letter to the council about the bailiffs charges i also sent an e-mail to my mp about 3 weeks ago got no reply from him the allpay and debit card charges were £2 the vat was 35p

thanks again for your help

 

Ok so we can drop the £1.75, so the outstanding amount is £67.58.

 

I appreciate you've already written to all and sundry about this, but I think another one, detailling the charges, events, etc, should be sent to the bailiff, council (both the ct department and complaints), your mp, et al. We can state the events, the errors, your position and that's that... no more faffing about by them. They accept it, or all bets are off!

 

I'm not the best at writing letters (tend to ramble on a bit!! as you can see!!) but I'll give it a go if you like. Only it'll have to be a bit later as am at work at the moment. I'll draft one up, post it on here and see what the consensus is.

 

I know you're getting weary of all this, but if you don't nip this behaviour in the bud, it'll go on and on. These blooming people sh be content that they have an arrangement and that you've been sticking to it. The number of posts that are coming on here every day with more and more queries about bailiffs show that times are tough. You have been nothing more than accomodating to them, and it's time they knew it!

 

Rant over..

 

Let me know what you think

[hallowitch]

that would be great ta

[KJD]

Okay so have a couple of questions for you before we try to do this letter..

 

1. the arrangement to pay by standing order - when and how was that set up, for each debt?
   
2. you say there are 2 levies, both done the same day. What are on the levies - just the pc & tv? And are both items on each levy or one on 1st levy, one on 2nd levy?
   
3. you have written to the bailiffs, the council & your MP. We've seen the reply from Jacobs to your 1st letter. Did they reply to your one with the proof re the pc? And have the council or MP replied at all?
   
4. you say the 1st debt has been settled / account closed. Do you know when that was?
   
5. has the bailiff at any time given your daughter a copy of the fees / charges?
   

I'm in my other role of 'Mums Taxi' this evening so may be hopping on & off the site a bit

 

Karen

[hallowitch]

I'm going to have dinner i will be back soon to answer your questions hubby home this week grrrrrrr i hate cooking

[KJD]

OK so another quick question for the experienced CAGgers.

 

This lady is in Wales and as far as I can see I believe the amended regulations only apply to England. In which case, the originial 1992 fees still apply in Wales. I've picked this up by looking at both rules (see the headings at the top) and also in one of Jacobs Bailiffs own newsletters, which said that altho the amended regulations were being implemented in England, Wales still had to put them in place.

 

The 2 rules are here..

The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992

 

The Council Tax and Non-Domestic Rating (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2006

 

Anyone any got any other information on this??

 

(Of course, if this is the case, Hallowitch, your fees exc VAT were right, which will bring down the total I posted above )

[scatz1972]

There was an amendment in April 2004

 

The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) and the Non-Domestic Rating (Collection and Enforcement) (Local Lists) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2004

[KJD]

Oh well done you! That's great, Scatz (have a tickle for your hard work )

[KJD]

Using correct info..

 

 

Debt 1:

Total £192.38

1st visit £22.50 Sept 06

2nd visit £16.00 Oct 06

 

Total £230.38

 

Debt 2:

Total £190.20

1st visit £22.50 Jun 07

2nd visit £16.00 Jun 07

 

Total £228.70

 

Walking Poss fee - invalid as arrangement already in place

Levy fee - invalid as arrangement already in place and invalid as on goods not belonging to your daughter

Van fee - invalid as arrangement already in place

 

So I make that a total of £459.58

 

You've paid £409.00

 

Which means a balance of £50.58 to pay.