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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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No, IMHO it won't.

 

Based on the premise that "there's one born every minute", they will continue to charge fantasy fees, and unlawful credit card charges to anyone that doesn't know their rights. Which I suspect is most people. Look at how the banks behaved and still behave.

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  • 4 weeks later...
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Hi all,

 

A addendum to my original post.....

 

I had an outstanding bill for 3 years of CT. Paid the biggest bill before Christmas. Was charged for using a debit card by BS. Bailiff also over charged by £35. Phoned bailiff, they said deal with the council now its settled. Rang council. I said 'I have a payment plan for the two outstanding years,but I have been overcharged for the satisfied bill' they said send the letter in and we will take it from there. Ive sent the letter in, stating that I will proceed with a small claims procedure in 7 days if I dont receive a reply.

Guess what? no reply,and committal proceedings for the two outstanding years. Ive rang the council and explained Ive held the payments until I get an answer on the original letter. They said the letter (posted on the 5th jan,over 3 weeks ago) is still sitting in someone's in-box and will be dealt with. In the mean time I have to fill out a means questionnaire on the back of the letter and get it too them.

They have got the dates of the payments wrong too, I said £15 a month and they reckon its a week.

Any ideas anyone??????

 

Fwog

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Just pay them at the rate you can afford - all they can do is either threaten to make you bankrupt which only works if you've got sufficient assets, or send the bailiffs back.

 

It just p***ed me off that they can bugger-up there own charges and not respond the my letter, but when the boots on the other foot Im expected to jump. Theyve had the letter for 3 weeks and it still hasnt been read FFS:evil:

I can afford to pay them but I thought I'd play their game and do everything legally, but when it come to playing the game it doesnt seem to work as they own the ball:?

 

Fwog

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  • 1 month later...

Hi

 

Had a nightmare Christmas with letters and visits from bailiffs.

Paid them in full.

 

After which, I questioned their right to:

 

 

1, Not use the correct name when serving paperwork.

 

2. Charge for use of debit card

 

This letter was posted nearly 3 months ago, Ive received a reply:confused: Does this look like typical bailiff twaddle? I thought they couldnt charge the fee, theyre saying that its ok as I've other options of payment?

 

Heres the letter...

 

 

We have been recently been forwarded a copy of your letter issued to our client, They have asked us to investigate and

respond to the queries you have raised.

 

The charge administered for making a payment by card is not charged in accordance with The

Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations, 1992 as amended.

 

The only form of payment we have to accept by law is cash, within certain limits if offered via coin.

To provide the service of accepting other forms of payment we are entitled to make a charge and this

may include passing on charges we have to pay out to the merchant and costs incurred by our own

staff and resources. You may not agree with this charge but it does not make it incorrect.

 

In addition to the above, we would like to point out that you were made aware of the different types

of payment we accepted and yet you chose to make payment by card.

 

The bailiff in question does carry with him photographical identification and also the authority to act

on behalf of Nuneaton and Bedworth Borough Council.

 

After reviewing your account we are happy that we have acted correctly and in accordance with the

law and we will not be refunding to you any of the monies we have collected.

 

So what do you think?

 

Cheers for looking

 

Fwog

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What a reply. This comes less than two years after I stood up in Warwickshire (Justice?) Centre in Nuneaton and made sure in a long and very uncompromising speech armed with supporting documentation and evidence that every embarrassed stoney faced council representative who attended that day was left in no illusion as what bailiffs do in their name.

 

They acted cringingly similar to the dog that has just been found to have stolen the meat, with not word of dissent or denial from any of them. They were also told in no uncertain terms that this has being going on for over 25 years and if they were unaware that this was happening before my lecture, they sure as hell had no excuse to allow it to continue afterwards.

 

In other words Nuneaton and Bedworth Council know damn well that bailiffs lie, cheat, defraud, intimidate and bully in their names. They just delude themselves into believing otherwise. Write back and tell them that they were made aware of lying, cheating bailiffs in a stern lecture delivered directly to their enforcement officers in the Warwickshire Justice Centre in June 2007.

 

I bet that they will countermand from the safety of their office that 'this is the first we have heard about it'.

 

So you know the letter you published here is not worth the paper it is written on

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I'm not surprised they always get caught with their pants down,its not like their above the law/legislation.

I would have thought the bailiff company would have had the good sense to refund without an issue, might issue a small claims against NBBC.

 

Any other input out be appreciated,

 

Fwog

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They charged 4% which is £24, not a great deal but I queried the charges levied by the bailiff as well, debtline UK said these were £40 over, they seem to have overlooked that part of my letter. All in all, they are £64 adrift in their calculations, as the council have passed this letter on, it amazes me theyre so flippant. Maybe a letter to the ombudsman as well as small claims?

 

Fwog

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No I don't think they are entitled to charge at all.

 

They aren't allowed to charge for VAT and credit cards, that's because there has been case law about it, which basically says that these are normal business expenses that they are not entitled to pass on to the debtor.

 

Debit cards would be exactly the same, it's just that I don't think a judge has come out and said it yet.

 

Like most good gamblers they play the odds, successfully, assuming that most people will just pay up if they bluff them that the charges are lawful.

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Has anyone had any notification to this thread which includes pictures of Tinkerbell?

 

You been on the sauce again ,Chris?:p

 

I have a copy on my Blackberry, it was spam, probably eliminated by the Mods before anyone realized.

Bit odd as I've never seen spam on here before:confused:

 

Thanks for the reply too;)

 

Fwog

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You been on the sauce again ,Chris?:p

 

 

No, but I shall fix that right away ! :)

 

I did click on tinkerbell, she didn't look like any fairy I've ever seen.

 

And I once had a job where I was, erm, advised to talk to the fairies.

 

Anyone who's ever worked on the southern part of the Isle of Man will know what I mean :D

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And I once had a job where I was, erm, advised to talk to the fairies.

 

Anyone who's ever worked on the southern part of the Isle of Man will know what I mean :D

 

Aah, yes. A respectful nod as we go by...:)

I really do appreciate all those 'thank you' emails - I'm glad I've been able to help. Apologies if I haven't acknowledged all of them.

You can also ding my gong if you prefer. :)

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  • 3 months later...

Hi All,

 

It's me again :D

 

After paying one outstanding bill, the council have dug out another bill for £465. Its going to committal on the 6/8/09.

 

Just want to clarify a point Ive made before.

 

The bill is over 6 years old, I've been told in previous posts that they will keep chasing as its not statue barred.

Then on another post , Tommytubby said if its over 6 years it is statue barred?

I know council tax can be pursued indefinatly, but what's the standing on this before I take it further?

 

Thanks

 

Fwog

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Thanks for the reply Skatz. :)

 

Im just a bit confused as to the reason the council too the debtor to court ?

If its discretionary, why do the council waste time? Or is the other post and exception to the rule?

I have called the council in the past and been informed they will go all the way

:rolleyes:

 

 

I just thought it was in black and white, not a grey area ,as this seems to be.

Will keep you updated.

 

Fwog

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Then on another post , Tommytubby said if its over 6 years it is statue barred?

 

It all depends on when the final demand for payment was served. The LA would then have six years to obtain a Liability Order. Once they have obtained the order then potentially they could chase for payment forever.

 

" Council Tax

The council should not go to the magistrates' court and ask for a liability order for Council Tax more than six years after the Council Tax became due. This is under Regulation 34(3) Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992.

 

Council Tax appears to be 'due' when the council sent a demand notice to you which may not be at the same time the Council Tax rate was set. It is important that you check when the demand was sent as this affects when the six year limitation period begins. You can also complain to the Local Government Ombudsman if the demand was not sent out 'as soon as practicable' after the rate was set. "

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It all depends on when the final demand for payment was served. The LA would then have six years to obtain a Liability Order. Once they have obtained the order then potentially they could chase for payment forever.

 

" Council Tax

The council should not go to the magistrates' court and ask for a liability order for Council Tax more than six years after the Council Tax became due. This is under Regulation 34(3) Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992.

 

Council Tax appears to be 'due' when the council sent a demand notice to you which may not be at the same time the Council Tax rate was set. It is important that you check when the demand was sent as this affects when the six year limitation period begins. You can also complain to the Local Government Ombudsman if the demand was not sent out 'as soon as practicable' after the rate was set. "

 

Thanks sequenci,

 

The tax became 'due' in 2003. This demand came through the door on Monday. It has been issued before to a previous address and returned by bailiffs to the council in 2006.

so your saying as soon as the letter comes through my door (20/07/09) its then valid for 6 years from that point? (20/07/15)

 

Thanks again for all the input.

 

Fwog

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Thanks sequenci,

 

The tax became 'due' in 2003. This demand came through the door on Monday. It has been issued before to a previous address and returned by bailiffs to the council in 2006.

so your saying as soon as the letter comes through my door (20/07/09) its then valid for 6 years from that point? (20/07/15)

 

Thanks again for all the input.

 

Fwog

 

You need to find out when the actual year's council tax became due. This would be prior to Liability Order stage, it would be when the council make the original demand for full payment on you.

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You need to find out when the actual year's council tax became due. This would be prior to Liability Order stage, it would be when the council make the original demand for full payment on you.

 

Hi Sequenci,

 

It was due for that year, full payment was requested end of 2003/beginning 2004.

 

Thanks :)

 

Fwog

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When was the Liability Order made?[/quote

 

Hi Sequenci,

 

I had moved from that address,so I assume the council made a liability order in my absence and had it returned (as I wasn't there).

Just a letter stating that their intentions to take me to court over this outstanding amount, I would think the liability order would be issued after?

 

At this stage its just a letter to say

 

'.......tough luck, we will be taking you to court on the 6/8/09'

 

Hope this is the information you require?

Cheers

 

Fwog

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