1st Credit, an old debt and no records!

[Kyokudo]

Hello to all,

 

I'm new to these forums, in terms of registering. I did read some invaluable advice on here recently and have since started the ball rolling with 1st Credit on a really old debt.

 

The jist of it is this; back in April 2002 I took out a loan with Lloyds TSB whilst I was fit & healthy. All was fine for a few months, but then I was struck with a long term illness and was unable to make payments. So I did the usual, buried my head in the sand hoping for it to all go away... and it did... somewhat.

 

I never replied to any DCA's or 'supposed' solicitor letters. In the end I heard nothing for a long while. Until quite recently, they begun to call my home phone and somebody at home mistakingly gave them my works number.

 

They called and I spoke to a very rude agent who threatened all sorts of stuff. So under duress I agreed to try and make full payment available in 3 days (in compliance with their request).

 

After those 3 days passed, they called again and this time a somewhat sympathetic guy spoke to me. I said I could not pay the full outstanding balance and asked if an arrangement could be met, he declined but offered a decreased full and final settlement figure. I agreed to this and said I would pay at the end of October, this way I may have had time to get money (as I was selling a few personal items on eBay at the time).

 

That's when I came accross this site and read some posts and thought to myself... hang on a second. They are chasing me after what seems to be a long time. Asking for full payment and not entering into an arrangement and being overly aggressive.

 

Then I begun to dig deeper and decided to fire off a CCA request about 2 days ago. That night when I got home I registered on Credit Expert and decided to look at my Credit Report.

 

I am shocked at what I found, my Lloyds account was marked as Satisfied on 25/06/2003 and 'updated'? on 18/09/2005. But there is no reference to any defaults to 1st Credit on my file. The only reference to 1st Credit is a search on 12/2007.

 

But looking at my file I also noted another debt I had, which I had no idea of as I'm sure I paid in full a long time ago with a work bonus! But needless to say, the original creditor is marked as Satisfactory and the DCA, in this instance Lowell Portfolio Limited, but that started on 17/10/2002.

 

So my questions are as follows;

1) Why aren't 1st Credit noted on my file as a default if they are indeed legally allowed to collect a debt?

 

2) Are Lowell legally allowed to claim the other debt, or is it now statute barred?

 

Um, that's all I can think of, unless someone else wants to point some other stuff out?

 

Thanks to whomever takes the time to read all that, you deserve a medal! :grin:

[huggy41]

i will call you kk if thats alright with you welcome to the CAG the best parasite removers ever.

 

you say you sent off a cca just waite for the reply they have 12+2 days to come up with the said agreement or tell you what the debt is for once we know that we can help you more. scan all letters you get from them into photobucket and upload here in this thread as this is now your's. i have made a video tutorial of how to use photobucket for everyones ease to veiw

 

forgot to say remove all reference personel details accounts , barcodes ect from the documents first but video will show you how

Edited November 6, 2008 by huggy41
more info

[Kyokudo]

Yeah, my username is bit... weird huh!?

 

Anyway, I knew waiting for the outcome of my CCA would be the main thing. As for the letters, some of the age old ones have already been destroyed. I only have stuff for the last few months.

 

Quite used to photobucket, I used to make what's known as graphical signatures and store them there.

 

Does anyone know if the other debt for Lowell is considered Statue Barred? As far as I'm aware, no payment (other than what I thought I cleared) has been made for all that time.

[huggy41]

it is statute barred if no account activity by yourself has accured in 6 years

[huggy41]

if you get stressed click on the link on post 2 titled funny page

[ScabHunter]

The six years for statute barring is from the date you last made a payment or acknowledged the debt in writing. If the 17/10/2002 refers to that, then the Clownell one is statute barred.

 

It sounds like you found the CAG site just in time!

 

One last thing - never entertain these leeches on the telephone. Make sure everything is in writing.

 

SH

[Kyokudo]

Just a quick question.

I am still receiving calls (not answering at the moment) on my Mobile at around the same time each day. They still leave the same stupidly scripted message.

 

Now what I need to know is this, now they have my CCA request, are they still allowed to call to persue this debt, even though it is now in serious dispute?

 

Because I am quite inclined to answer the call next time and tell them to leave me be for now. They're actually calling my mobile, which is really irritating.

[inoofthepost]

1st Credit are aggressive BUT a CCA request usually makes them go away. As they buy the debt they usually have very little records wise. If you also chuck a SAR at them as well that will make them go even quieter!

 

Phone harassment is illegal, right a letter to them stating ALL communications to be in writing and not by phone. (there is a "sticky" letter guide if you need)

[ScabHunter]

This is the templated letter -

 

- HARASSMENT WARNING -

 

WARNING: PROTECTION FROM HARASSMENT ACT 1997

 

WARNING: COMMUNICATIONS ACT 2003. s127.

 

Telephone Number:

 

Re: Harassment by Telephone

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I am writing in relation to telephone calls that I have received from your organisation, which I deem to be personally harassing. I have requested that these calls stop, but I am still receiving calls. I now require the telephone number listed above to be completely removed from your systems.

 

I am in the view that your continued calling puts you in breach of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

This is a private telephone line, operated on a contract with the intention of receiving and making personal phone calls, I have not authorised any other member of my family to receive calls from your organisation using this PRIVATE TELEPHONE LINE.

 

By using this telephone number without my permission you are interfering with my ability to use my own private property for the duration of any call.

 

It is my right to require that this telephone line, which is licensed solely to myself, is kept clear for my own personal calls.

 

It is consequently my view that you are committing the tort of interference with contract insofar as for the duration of each call you make to me without my permission, you are interfering with my contractual right to receive and make personal calls on my private telephone line.

 

Continued interference with my contractual rights in this manner will result in legal action.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to the Office of Communications, Trading Standards and the Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable for a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that all telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

I think this letter needs a couple of paragraphs adding to it - one pointing out that harassment is a criminal offence which may result in police and/or legal action, and another pointing out that this is the initiation of a formal complaint, and that you require a copy of the official complaints procedure, which they are obliged to supply.

 

SH

[Kyokudo]

Thanks for that, will be sending one of those off on Monday.

 

However, I have had a reply from 1st Credit regarding my CCA request. After reading other replies from other CAGer's here (learn that already!!), it differs somewhat.

 

This is the main body of the text, no point writing the rest is there?

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

REQUEST FOR COPY AGREEEMENT

We refer to your recent communication requesting a copy of the relevant agreement.

 

The document you have requested is retained by our client. We will therefore advise them of your request and arrange for the document to be sent to you as soon as possible.

 

Should your request also include the below documents, please be advised of the following:

 

Deed of Assignment- we would refer you to section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 which provides that the debtor is notified of the assignment of the debt in writing and not a copy of the Deed itself.

 

Copy statements--there is a charge of £10.00 for this information.

 

On receipt of the copy agreement we would expect you to contact this office immediately to arrange settlement of the debt.

 

Please call this office should you wish to discuss this matter.

 

Yours faithfully

 

(squiggle)

 

ADMINISTRATION DEPARTMENT

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

What does this all mean, it's all a bit... well 'blah' to me?

Where do I stand with this section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925?

 

I wasn't worried that much before, but this letter seems a bit more... legal?

 

I thank you for your help, I know this is your personal time you are taking to answer my questions.

 

Oh and a quickie from my previous post.

Are 1st Credit allowed to search and leave a trace of it on my Credit File, not stating what the search was for, without my express permission to do so?

[42man]

It sounds to me that the debt is statute barred....there must be a clear gap of 6 years (5 years in Scotland) where you have not paid or acknowledged the debt.....I would send letter M from here also by recorded delivery - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

[babybear39]

When was the last time you made any payments or written acknowlegment against the accounts? (Appart from the CCA, as this is not a writen acknowlegement, but a legal request for information.)

Edited November 9, 2008 by babybear39
added something

[Kyokudo]

In all honesty, I'm not entirely certain.

I know that at some stage, I wrote to a few creditors some years ago to make arrangements for payments. All were accepted and some paid in full. But that's what makes me wonder about the Capital One debt to Lowell's/RED.

 

I think it may have been in late 2002 or early 2003.

 

Any answers to my questions from before?

[42man]

They are correct about the 'deed' of assignment, it would be a notice of assignment you would get sent, one from the original creditor and one from the new owner of the debt.....they have your CCA request wait and see what they produce back...keep us posted...

[Kyokudo]

This Deed of Assignment they refer to, this is a document saying they are the holders of the debt, correct?

 

You say I should have received one from them and from the original creditor?

 

I don't recall ever receiving something like that from them or the original creditor. What if they just decided to make one up?

 

I mean, all it sounds like is a document they could type up at any time and put an older date on, from both parties invloved really.

 

Now that's got me concerned.

 

On a side note, I have been waiting for a call from 1st Credit as they have been doing so since receiving my CCA request on the 5th of this month (except the w/end). But today... no call?

 

I was hoping they'd call, as I wanted to try one of the listed methods of winding up the DCA agent on the phone!

[ScabHunter]

What you should have received is a NOTICE of Assignment from the original creditor.

 

What many people often do receive is a fake letter written by the DCA on headed paper supposed to be from the original creditor, that the average primary school infant could tell is fake.

 

SH

[Kyokudo]

I see what you're saying.

Thing is, I tend to destroy documents over 2 years old (unless they're majorly important).

I've checked through old files and in my drawers and have thus far come up blank. So it's either been destroyed, or (most likely) it was never sent.

 

SHOULD I ask for a copy of it to be sent, or just see how the CCA request pans out?

[ScabHunter]

The CCA request is the first step. Assuming....

 

Do the letters from 1st Credit have an account number on them, or anything which positively identifies which account they refer to?

 

In order for any request to make sense, it has to be clear what it refers to.

 

If you definitely know which account this is, it may be worth sending an SAR to the original creditor, as it sounds like a statute barred situation.

 

SH

[Kyokudo]

Here we are, over the 12+2 days and ho hum, nothing from 1st Credit!

I expected as much and to be honest, the last phone call was very... timid!

 

It went something along the lines of:

 

Me: Hello?

1st: Hello, can I speak to Mr. (my name)?

Me: Who's calling?

1st: It's (xxxx) from 1st Credit, is that Mr. (my name)?

Me: Yes, but before we go any further, during the last conversation we had I requested that all contact be via letter only.

1st: So you would like us to not call you then?

Me: Yes please.

1st: Okay then.

Me: So if you would kindly remove all my numbers from your systems I would be greatful.

1st: Okay Mr. (my name), thank you.

Me: Bye then.

1st: Bye.

 

She didn't even ask me for details or anything, it was as if she'd just given up?

 

Anyway, so now where do I stand on the non appearance of a CCA?

I assume it's another letter to them stating they've now got 30 days to rectify this, or they'll be breaking laws!

 

Any ideas what template, or a really strongly worded one is?

I'd love to send them one that gets a rather comical reply!

 

Thanks in advance ^_^

[ScabHunter]

Sorry to disappoint you, but the 30 day/summary offence part was repealed earlier in the year. Now, only the 12+2 days has relevance.

 

Now, they are in default of your request, so you can send the "Account In Dispute" letter.

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

As for a comical reply, I don't think Worst Crudit are known for their sense of humour. To be honest, it is unlikely you will get any kind of reply. You will most probably just continue to get the templated threatagrams from the Acme Threat Machine.

 

SH

[Kyokudo]

Thanks ScabHunter,

 

That letter will be going Recorded tomorrow. (well today from time of post!)

 

Hopefully like you say, just templated letters.

What I do like is the fact that on my credit file, there is no reference to the debt with Wurst Crudit.

 

However, the Lloyds account is noted as Satisfied.

 

So when applying for credit in the future, Wurst Crudit won't be ruining it for me.