unfair gross misconduct?

[Lookingtobuy]

juhguhggk

Edited November 10, 2008 by Lookingtobuy

[paulgmb]

You obviously did this during working time but was it your own mobile or your companies?

Not looking too good with less than 12 months service, but I agree it does seem harsh.

[Lookingtobuy]

ijiolhuiolh

Edited November 10, 2008 by Lookingtobuy

[paulgmb]

Yes you should definitly appeal, you have nothing to lose!

It all seems a bit heavy handed and really with less than 12 months service you are appealing to their better nature to try and get reinstated. The only possible avenue I can think of is possibly a race one. If you have raised a formal grievance siteing race as part of your complaint then you might be able to use this. There is no limit on claims for race issues.

Gather as much evidence as you can and try and take a witness with you or someone to take notes.

[Lookingtobuy]

vhjkvfyi

Edited November 10, 2008 by Lookingtobuy

[paulgmb]

Yes your absolutly right, anything they are relying on as evidence should be provided to you way in advance in order for you and your Rep (if any) to prepare your defence.

Your right, many employers wait for 11 months and use this loophole to get rid of anyone they want. It used to be 2 years and whilst 1 year is better, it used to be 6 months before Thatcher changed it to 2 years. Even 6 months is too long and my union and others are campaigning for employment rights from day 1.

A few points which might help your case. Were you given reasonable notice of the disciplinary, in writing advising you that you had the right to be accompanied with all paperwork enclosed?

Is the appeal being heard by someone more senior than heard the disciplinary?

Are you able to call witnesses to verify that the texts were just a normal part of the day to day workplace banter?

Don't forget to adjourn the meeting if you need to clarify anything or even just want to take a break, its your right.

I think your right, whilst sending the texts was probably not the best career move, how would your colleague feel if they were being left out?

On the issue of disclosing dodgy practices, why not? Keep it legal and make sure they can't get you for intellectual theft. The internet is a very poweful tool. I'm enjoying exposing my partners ex boss who has done a bunk and not paid her and her colleagues their wages for October, see my post on Potion PR and Artistica.

Best of luck,

Paul.

[Lookingtobuy]

;klnm;klnm

Edited November 10, 2008 by Lookingtobuy

[Zamzara]

If you regularly exchanged similar messages with the person I don't see how it can possibly be genuine gross misconduct. Therefore you will be entitled to one week's notice. If you were within one week of a year's service then you can also claim unfair dismissal. In any case you should appeal.

[Lookingtobuy]

jkhk

Edited November 10, 2008 by Lookingtobuy

[UKlawstudent]

Had you had any previous warnings verbal or written about sending such text messages?

 

Is there any specific mention of text message/phone call conduct in your contract or company's HR guidelines?

 

You say another manager was dealt with informally after having sent messages that I presume are more obscene in nature. How are you aware of this? Are others aware of the situation with the other manager in your office?

 

Did you show remorse for your actions in your initial investigation, or in your disciplinary meeting?

 

Was demotion a potential outcome from your disciplinary?

 

Do you still have the messages sent to you by the individual concerned?

 

Do you have colleagues (preferably other managers) who could vouch for the fact that you have sent messages in the past- which could potentially then highlight that this was both the culture of your office and not a one-off message targeted at this one individual?

 

On the face of what I've read to this point, one message in this context could certainly not be deemed gross misconduct.

 

Thanks

[Lookingtobuy]

89yuig

Edited November 10, 2008 by Lookingtobuy

[UKlawstudent]

I would approach the appeal in a very calm and considered manner.

 

Begin by admitting that you have done, wrong and that you won't be making the same mistake again.

 

The key point you need to be making is that this is not a case of gross misconduct. That should be your key focus, don't dilute that message by even considering making accusations against other members of staff for fiddling accounts or managing people out the company with underhand tactics.

 

Ensure that you put the message sent it context; that it was a team meeting in which you were being light-hearted, it was sent to a number of people and there was no offence intended whatsoever.

 

Realistically, they do have to uphold your appeal.

 

If they don't you are almost certain of being able to take this to tribunal given their response to your grievance around racially motivated text messages. You are probably looking 6 months down the line before that tribunal will take place, but I would again be confident that would be judged in your favour.

 

Key thing is to focus on the facts, these are very much in your favour. The mistake many make is to let sentiment and emotion take over, you do not have to put in an Oscar-winning performance given the circumstances around your dismissal.

 

Good luck

[Lookingtobuy]

ijj

Edited November 10, 2008 by Lookingtobuy

[Lookingtobuy]

ijui

Edited November 10, 2008 by Lookingtobuy

[Lookingtobuy]

Have I put too much detail of my case on here?

 

I haven't mentioned where I live, the company's name or any specifics- but if the business were to find out about this post would this harm my chances at appeal?

 

I really do just want my job back- should I remove this post to avoid upsetting my employer?

[callumsgran]

I would remove the reference to the ********* in post 13

That could give you away

Edited November 8, 2008 by callumsgran

[Lookingtobuy]

done! thanks for that advice, if you could now edit your post I'm sound!

 

on the face of it though, what dop you think is a likely outcome?

 

cheers!

[callumsgran]

Done!

 

I'm not an authority on disciplinary matters so wouldnt like to say

but i do think you have been grossly mistreated

Do you have a house insurance policy which gives you legal cover?

If so, look into getting a solicitor to help

[Lookingtobuy]

kj

Edited November 10, 2008 by Lookingtobuy

[callumsgran]

Sounds ok to me

You might also want to say that you dont feel that the correct disciplinary procedures were applied i.e you werent given any warnings

IMO they are on shaky grounds regarding sacking you for Gross Misconduct

[Lookingtobuy]

lbjkb

Edited November 10, 2008 by Lookingtobuy

[callumsgran]

YW hun and the very best of luck to you!

Do you necessarily have to tell them about your last job?

Can you not say you took a sabbatical?

I know that's what some do

[Lookingtobuy]

nljkn

Edited November 10, 2008 by Lookingtobuy

[callumsgran]

I've been here for almost a year and my CV would look a bit blank if I didn't include it at all, it should be a real PLUS point on my CV as it was a good role in a good firm, that I delivered well in.

 

Big firms like mine tend only to give very basic references by HR. Stating my name, time of employment, job title and reason for leaving. Managers aren't actually allowed to give personal references, they have to be passed to HR. Surely thats an advantage then?

 

So while I can try and dress things up as best I can, maybe hinting at "wanting a new challenge" or "moving on in this economic environment"- its dishonest and I don't want to have to do that! Its not dishonest if you have to use that to get another job, or you can always say it's for personal reasons

 

Fingers crossed they just give me my job back- whether or not I can totally recover professionally from my mistake/suspension/disco etc I don't know, but I just want to return.

 

I'd even be willing to take a different role in the same business- just makes me sick to think of the hundreds of times I've stayed late, come in on days off, come in early, taken duties on outside of role, etc etc when they try going down such a black and white route with me when I make one silly mistake. Make sure you mention all these things at the hearing, the people conducting it may not be aware of what you have done to help the company out

 

Never mind!

 

Worth a try!

[UKlawstudent]

Lookingtobuy,

 

I see you've removed your posts, hope your company haven't been snooping. You didn't reveal any specific details, so I wouldn't be overly worried about them doing this. Employers these days use various different websites such as Facebook to find additional information but you said that you had already had your disciplinary so nothing posted can have influenced that. Again the appeal very specifically only examines the decision made in your original disciplinary so please don't feel you can't post on here any more, about your own case or helping others.

 

Please email me privately as I have some information for you that I think you will find very useful. A couple of points for tribunal, which could prove quite helpful.

 

Good luck