Rec. Court papers from Marlin

[laccal]

I have rec court papers from those lovely people at Marlin via Mortmer clarke sols dated 31st Oct.

 

I have had numerous arguements with them as they have not supplied the correct CCA and quoted the usual Rankine case to me.

 

Obviously i intend to contest but have never done this before so need a bit of help pls.

 

Firstly what do i do!! Do i acknowledge but disagree with the claim via online and wait for court date or do i need to contact the courts and or Marlin. i remember reading something about 28 days and also needing some evidence from Marlin re the case!!

 

Also what normally happens, Marlin clearly (at this point) do not have a CCA but does it still go to court or what!!

 

Sorry for all the questions but rec. court papers and although i think i have a good defence re CCA it is still damn scary:eek:

 

Any help, advice or previous dealings and experience welcome

[ScabHunter]

Fill in the "Acknowledgement of Service Form" N9.

 

Then make a request for information under the Civil Procedure Rules. I'll be back with a letter in a bit.

 

SH

[ScabHunter]

Here is a letter to send. Send it to the address given on the claim form for "Address for sending documents and payments (if different)". Send it Special Delivery.

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION CPR18

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

 

1.1 If copies of any of the above documents are to be relied on in court rather than originals, a copy of the Notice of proposal to adduce hearsay evidence required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 together with proof of the authenticity of the document(s) as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including but not limited to:

 

(a) a copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents

(b) a copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original document(s)

© copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with

(d) copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedure(s) and audit process(es) comply with the appropriate quality standards

 

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. .Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

[laccal]

Many thanks, do i need to send a copy to the court,

 

also

 

if they do not reply then i presume i write to the court and use that as my defence.....

 

i (again) presume i need to tell the courts something within 28 days or i will lose by default??

 

Do these companies normally go the distance re court proceedings without the CCA or are they just trying their luck hoping i do not defend or reply in time

 

sorry for all the questions but need to get it clear in my head

 

regards

 

laccal

[ScabHunter]

Many thanks, do i need to send a copy to the court,

 

No, not initially.

 

if they do not reply then i presume i write to the court and use that as my defence.....

 

i (again) presume i need to tell the courts something within 28 days or i will lose by default??

 

They have been given 14 days to comply in your letter. If they do not do this, then, yes, we will need to involve the court. Take it one step at a time for now, and see what happens.

 

Yes, an acknowledgment of service gives you an extra 14 days. It needs to be followed up with the Defence Form N9B.

 

Do these companies normally go the distance re court proceedings without the CCA or are they just trying their luck hoping i do not defend or reply in time

 

There isn't really a "normally" here. Anything can happen. It is best to assume they are going to follow through and plan accordingly. It will be a pleasant bonus if they do not.

 

SH

[42man]

Can you tell us what the Particulars Of The Claim are please ? (but don't be specific with the numbers)....

[laccal]

Can you tell us what the Particulars Of The Claim are please ? (but don't be specific with the numbers)....

 

By an agreement in writing between Sainsbury bank (sbp) and the defendant dated 20/6/2000 (the agreement) sbp agreed to issue the def with a credit card upon the terms and conditions set out therein. In breach of the agreement the def has failed to make payments of not less than the minimum payment shown on the monthlu statement. sbp served a default notice on the def. stating the sum due and requiring the def to pay the same. the def failed to pay and the agreement was terminated. The agreement was assigned to claimant on 18/7/08.

the claimant therefore claims 1. (amount) 2. interest at the rate pursuant to the agreement namely 22.48 and continuing until Judgement or sooner payment at the daily rate of 2.81 or in the alternative interest pursuant to section 69 of the county courts act 1984. also interest at the rate pursuant to the agreement from the judgement date until payment

 

(phew)

[42man]

OK it may be better to send them this by recorded delivery...ASAP

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment

 

3 the default notice

 

Your client should ensure compliance with its CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

 

You might find this thread of interest - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159445-getting-them-reveal-their.html

[laccal]

Its now been 14 days since i wrote to Marlin asking for the info re court proceedings and i have so far received ..............nothing!!!

 

What now??

 

i know i have to reply to court re defence so does anyone have a template letter.

i presume my defence is that they cannot produce a valid cca.

 

Any help, as always greatly appreciated..... also has anyone else had same issues with Marlin and what was the final outcome

[42man]

Which CPR letter did you send in the end laccal ?

[42man]

If it was the 31.14 you sent then (and if they haven't responded to it then this will be your defence)

 

Defence

 

1 The Defendant denies ever having been indebted to xxxxx and denies credit has ever been advanced to him/her by xxxxx.

 

2 The Defendant repeats paragraph 1 of his/her Defence and denies a debt was and/or was capable of assignment by xxxxx to the Claimant.

 

3 The Claimant's claim to be entitled to £xxxxx for debt, to statutory interest or to any monetary or other relief of any kind is denied.

 

I BELIEVE THE FACTS SET OUT IN THIS DEFENCE ARE TRUE

 

Signed:

 

Dated:

[laccal]

Here is a letter to send. Send it to the address given on the claim form for "Address for sending documents and payments (if different)". Send it Special Delivery.

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION CPR18

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

 

1.1 If copies of any of the above documents are to be relied on in court rather than originals, a copy of the Notice of proposal to adduce hearsay evidence required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 together with proof of the authenticity of the document(s) as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including but not limited to:

 

(a) a copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents

(b) a copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original document(s)

© copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with

(d) copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedure(s) and audit process(es) comply with the appropriate quality standards

 

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. .Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

 

 

this one!!

[42man]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/140032-hsbc-county-court-claim.html#post1510229

 

Have a good read of the doc in post 12 and you may need to add what PT said in post 13

[laccal]

should i have sent the 31.14 rather than the one i sent and is the reply still on the same lines !!

[laccal]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/140032-hsbc-county-court-claim.html#post1510229

 

Have a good read of the doc in post 12 and you may need to add what PT said in post 13

 

Sorry if it is a bit of a thickee question but obviously want the letter to be correct:confused:

On the example used each paragragh is numbered, is this just used (which is what i believe) as a easy reference guide when answering or need to refer to each bullet point or have a missed something and this should be relating to something else

 

regards

 

Laccal

[laccal]

It has now been over a month since i filed my defence and had the court acknowledgement.

 

pls can anyone assist in what happens or what i need to do now

[Craftygirl42]

I am in the same boat, sent my defence against Marlin and it was dealt with on the 1st December. Not heard a thing and was wondering what happens now.

 

Good luck with it and will be watching your thread

[postggj]

quick question

helping a pal out ref marlin and mbna

they to sent a letter refusing a cca request quoting rankin

just drawing up a defence for him and in the defence i would like to put this point to the judge as this marin/rankin biz has no meaning to a cca request

 

any body give me some idea for a paragraph ref marlin and rankin to put in the defence

 

this dca needs stopping with this tactic to confuse debtors

 

sorry for the hijack but its relevent as op is in same position

 

many thanks

[Craftygirl42]

It has now been over a month since i filed my defence and had the court acknowledgement.

 

pls can anyone assist in what happens or what i need to do now

 

 

Laccal, I just rang Northampton and my case has been stayed. Its probably worth you giving them a ring just for piece of mind as they said they dont send out letters confirming this

 

Good luck

[laccal]

I have just rec. a letter from Northampton court confirming 'notice that a defence has been filed' and enclosing an allocation questionaire which must be in by next week and telling me that the case has been transferred to my local court!!!!

 

is this normal, i have had no paper work (or anything) back from Marlin re all my questions in my defence.

 

does this mean Marlin are actually taking me to court with no evidence or is this standard that the case goes to a local court but remains pending until they submit anything..............and why do i need to fill the allocation questionaire in such a tight timespan.

 

sorry for the questions just want to see if anyone else has same problems or experience.....i am gettin a bit nervy now!!

 

regards

 

Laccal

[Craftygirl42]

I also received an Allocation Questionnaire from my case brought by Marlin.

 

You need to search on here for info in correctly filling it in and also add an a Draft Order of Directions. You have to do this by the date specified or they will get a CCJ against you. I am in the process of sorting mine out ready to send at the end of the week.

 

Good luck

[laccal]

OK, pls stick with this as Marlin have requested a court hearing and sent me the following.

LETTER (IMPORTANT EXTRACTS BELOW)

‘You have stated in your defence that the agreement is not an enforceable agreement as it does not comply with the prescribed terms required under s.60. However the credit agreement is not required to provide the amount of credit as this is a credit card agreement which is a running account credit agreement under sect. 10 of the consumer credit act 1974. The provisions that apply to a fixed sum loan agreement do not apply to running a/c credit agreements. Your contention therefore does not assist your defence as the agreement is enforceable.

Furthermore you have made numerous payments to Marlin towards the outstanding balance and our clients believe that the payments made are a clear admission of your liability. You did not at any point dispute the balance until we issued County court proceedings. Our client is therefore of the opinion that the request for docs which is over 8 years old is merely an attempt to frustrate the court proceedings. These facts will be disclosed to the court’

We can also confirm that a copy of the default notice has been requested from the original creditor and will be supplied upon rec.

OK.... THEY ALSO ENCLOSED THE FOLLOWING

APPLICATION FORM (signed by me and Sainsbury but no prescribed terms as this is on the reverse and they cannot find the original

CREDIT AGREEMENT (an unsigned copy or duplicate of an agreement. Not signed by me or them!!

STATEMENT OF PAYMENTS TO MARLIN (sent via pay plan)

NOTICE OF ASSISGNMENT DATED ....... 08

Phew. Now some questions!!

Any observations and/or comments re their letter.

In my opinion still no CCA and the application is showing a different account number to what was purchased. I think way back Sainsbury upgraded my card and transferred the balance to the new one. Should a new CCA HAVE BEEN SIGNED THEN OR CAN THEY JUST CHANGE THE ACCOUNT NUMBER AT ANY TIME??? Either way the application does not (imho) amount to a CCA

Also to proceed through court apart from the obvious CCA I was under the impression they also needed the correct default notice. Is this true?

Finally – The main reason this is being contested is that I want them to prove they can legally make a judgement on me, but does me making payments to them prove anything in their favour. I thought they still needed the cca regardless of making token payments or not. My argument for this is Originally Sainsbury agreed to these payments then they sold it on so I just continued. I am not disputing that a had a card I am just disputing that Marlin do not have the right to CCJ me for it

Sorry for the long post. What do people think and should I reply to Marlins above letter (if so any pointers)

Right off to have a well earned coffee my last one went cold whilst typing this !!!!

[laccal]

Bumped as getting close to Marlins 10 day deadline

[42man]

Have you filled out the allocation questionnaire Laccal ?

 

What they have sent is their opinion.....and hot air, no valid default notice, then this could pave the way for a potential counter claim, no prescribed terms, unenforceable.....you'll need to know your stuff though LAccal...

[42man]

I love the way it says "Our client is therefore of the opinion that the request for docs which is over 8 years old is merely an attempt to frustrate the court proceedings. These facts will be disclosed to the court"

What it really means is that "we're stuffed, we know it, and we are frustrated that you have mentioned this, if you hadn't opposed us we could have relaxed a little rather than having to dig out something that probably doesn't exist, despite your rights, we will cry to the judge that it really isn't relevant when it actually is !!!"